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Featured Matthew 7:15-20 Interpretation.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by True Counterphobia, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Bless you anyway.....
     
  2. True Counterphobia

    True Counterphobia Slave to Christ

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    What exactly was the point of you asking those questions? They had NOTHING to do with what I said.
     
  3. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Something to consider is The Word pertaining to judgment. The judgement must first begin at the house of God. Born again Christians are the house of God. The enemy is judged already.

    1Pet.4

    1. [17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

    John.16
    1. [11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They were examples I ran into of “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” Matthew 7:15–20 (KJV 1900)

    I forgot to mention the preacher who killed over 100 people with false doctrine in the Word of Faith movement. That's why I asked about your experience.
     
  5. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

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    It's not an either-or; it's both-and. Without good biblical beliefs, we may be worshiping the wrong god like the cults. Without the new life that God's gift of the new birth gives us, we only have head-knowledges that won't do us any good.
     
  6. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Reasonably good doctrine should accompany a believer but it may or may not be a fruit -and who's to judge between good and poor doctrine anyway? The obvious fruits stem from love: doing the works prepared in advance (Eph 2:10), doing "for the least of these" (Matt 25), teaching the love of God and His word to a lost and hopeless and dying world, contributing time and resources to those in need, overcoming sin, obedience in general.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
  7. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    The Way was the earliest example.
     
  8. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Personally I believe it refers to the fruit of the Spirit.

    I don't believe that it refers to good deeds, because atheists can do those. Humanists can found charities, help the poor and homeless etc without even believing in God, just driven by a strong belief that it is good to help a fellow human being. Hindus may do good works believing that they'll have a better incarnation after they die. And some Muslim fanatics believe that anyone who doesn't believe in Allah is a wicked infidel, and it is good when such people get killed.

    But it could well refer to good doctrine too, because Jesus says "watch out for false prophets". Elsewhere in the NT we are told to 'test the spirits', and Christians judge whether or not someone is teaching correctly by whether or not it lines up with Scripture.
     
  9. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Bu how do you know if what someone is teaching is false?
    A cult member can do good works but have totally incorrect doctrine; ditto atheists who don't even believe in God. A prophet could appear to be a good, moral person yet still give "words" that are not from God.
     
  10. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Is there not a gift of discernment we should be operating in as well ??

    Does not the scripture say that for some their sin follows and for some their sin comes before...

    So if their sin is concealed - the gift of discernment needs to be operating among us to protect the sheep from wolves.
     
  11. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good doctrine is the foundation. Good fruit is the result of that solid foundation of truth. Be blessed.
     
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  12. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Truth In The Nebulous

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    Sound doctrine is essential, which would include the comprehension that sound doctrine does not
    produce the fruit of the Spirit. Abiding in the Holy Spirit is The Way. This is what Paul means when
    he says that we are justified by faith, not by Law.

    Galatians 5:
    22
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
    23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
    24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    25
    If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    26
    Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

    Becoming an expert on doctrine can be the very thing that leads someone to become
    prideful and conceited.
    If we truly abide in the Spirit, we will be led through experiences that "crucify the flesh with its
    passions and desires". This must occur to receive from the Holy Spirit.


    2 Corinthians 1:
    5
    For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ.
    6 Now if we are afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effective for enduring
    the same sufferings which we also suffer. Or if we are comforted, for your consolation and salvation.
    7 And our hope for you is steadfast, because we know that as you are partakers of the sufferings,
    so also you will partake of the consolation
    .

    The fruit of the Spirit is what we sow back into the lives of others, especially the Body of Christ.
    James 3:18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

    If we are to enter into rest, we must cross the brook Kidron, even as David's men captured
    Mount Zion by way of the sewer.
     
  13. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    It depends on the matter, but generally I think good way to know is, does it fit to what is said in the Bible. If it is not in contradiction with the Bible, then it may be true.
     
  14. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Like a politician which promises what is best for the people but usually has a hidden agenda?
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    I think it is both ... the actions of those who "have a love of the Truth" and the One who "is the Way the Truth and the life" John 14 - will result in their acceptance of good doctrine and rejection of bad doctrine. It does not mean they have all knowledge or that they believe nothing untrue. But rather over time they will expel more and more error from their beliefs and accept more and more truth.
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    For some people - when they hear a doctrinal statement they do not ask "is it true?" - they ask "who said it? who else endorses it?"
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and practice.

    Christ was not popular... but He was right and His teaching was inline with scripture.

    Someone could ask Him "who else endorses your doctrine?" and He could say "Moses". But then all the false teachers among the Jews would claim the same thing. The difference is that Christ actually did have the endorsement of Moses as Matthew 17 points out.
     
  18. True Counterphobia

    True Counterphobia Slave to Christ

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    I agree. Alisa Childers who wrote the book "Another Gospel" just had John Cooper of Skillet on her podcast and this came up. John talked about this problem and said, "Don't you want something concrete in your life? Something that never changes? That's what the Bible is." And I could see what he was saying only a little bit. He's been in the scene for longer than me and we are both about the same age, me and John. But he says kids today don't have the debate of "What is true?" but more, "What am I supposed to think?" It's very sad.
     
  19. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Exactly.
    Which is why I said that having good doctrine may also be important.
    But Jesus said that others would know that we are his disciples if we love.
     
  20. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Why does man always think we have to add to or interpret the word of God? That is saying His will is not good enough, we have to tell it our way. For instance, God simply says don't put man's will ahead of His... and we get a religion and all it's doctrines to either explain that or circumvent it.
     
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