Matthew 24: FULFILLED

[Wildfire]

Yes I have read your post and the word "age" is not in my bible. My verses specifically say this:

Matthew 24:3

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming? and of the end of the world?

I don't know what bible you are using but mine is the Kings James version.

Check it out.
Wildfire

 

[jenlu]

Wildfire,

Do you by any chance have a Greek concordance...the greek word used by the disciple's is/was "aion"...Aion means age...You have just hit on the crux of many of the problem's with interpretation...Bible publisher's...ie Scoefield and many more... have (in their infinite wisdom) decided to interpret the scripture's for YOU...by not puting "age" in there or "the land of Israel" or "the land of the Roman Empire" in many places that it should be when the "world" is used...The greek language is a very descriptive language by just the words alone...context of the usage of the word means a lot too...So look in a concordance and search the scripture's that have anything to do with "the last days"...that's the best way to deal with eschatology...BTW, just use the concordance with the whole Bible...it works wonders...

 

[jenlu]

BTW Wildfire, I use the king james as well...just with a concordance along side...

 

[Bobcat]

Didn't St. Paul use the King James Version as well?

Thanks to the internet it's now very easy to compare and contrast various translations (and it's kind of fun sometimes too). The following link is one such website that allows you to do this: http://bible.gospelcom.net/

I found that the Young's Literal Translation (YLT) was especially interesting in regards to Matthew 24.

I think it's important to remember that Christians believe the original bible (in Hebrew and Greek) was divinly inspired. But the folks who translated the bible in the other various languages, including english, were not divinely inspired. Thus there are differences of opinion as to how a particular passage should be translated and that's one reason why we have several different versions of the Bible.

 

[armothe]

Just to throw my 2 cents in:

The New Revised Standard Version
English Standard Version
The New Testament: Expanded Translation
Youngs Literal
1890 Darby Bible
New Century Version

All say "age". I use a NASB which says "world" but after consulting the greek I found the word: αιών. This would be "Aiõn" which simply means: a period of time

..and Paul states in one of his letters that he believed the ends of the ages would happen in his lifetime.

1 Cor 10:11: These things happened to them to serve as an example, and they were written down to instruct us, on whom the ends of the ages have come.

-A

 

[Wildfire]

The bible was not meant for our own interpretation. I do not need to search other bibles and translate specific words into another language to have understanding of what is being said...

Chapter 24 is filled with plain and simple warnings to all of us, about what to expect before the coming of Christ and of the end of the world.

I am sorry that you cannot see that.

What does James write about those who have no fear or worry of the coming of the end;

Go to now, ye that say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain;
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanish away.
For ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this or that.

And Luke further:

As it was in the days of Noah so shall it also be in the days of the Son of man;
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Likewise, also, as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway, ye say, There cometh a shower and so it is.
And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye cannot discern this time?

Wildfire

 

[jenlu]

Wildfire

I'm sorry, but seems as if we're going to have to agree to disagree...All I'm saying is that the original word used by the disciple's is "age"...No matter what translation you use and how they decide to interpret it...it is age...St. Paul did not have a N.T. at his disposal...other than the parts he wrote...BTW, both James and Luke (along with most N.T. writers) had plenty to say about "the last days"...and who was Jesus talking to when Luke quoted Jesus in your post...Let the Bible interpret the Bible...by that I mean...if you come upon something that you are not sure what God is trying to communicate...go to another part that it is very easy for you to interpret using similar wording and has similar context...that's what I try to do...

 

[armothe]

Originally posted by Wildfire
The bible was not meant for our own interpretation. I do not need to search other bibles and translate specific words into another language to have understanding of what is being said...

With all do respect....it sure looks like you need to consult something else than the KJV if you are misinterpreting clear statements.

The the disciples clearly were talking about the end of the "age" and not the end of the "world". The original greek text states such.

If you cannot see this, then you are either being quite stubborn, or quite naive.

-A

 

[NumberOneSon]

The bible was not meant for our own interpretation. I do not need to search other bibles and translate specific words into another language to have understanding of what is being said...

If you are unwilling to understand specific words in the original language then how can you possibly understand what the bible says? The bible you read IS a translation, and you are in fact trusting the interpretation of those who translate it. You can't have a clear understanding what certain scriptures mean without understanding what the words meant in the original language.

The word "world" in Math 24:3 does not mean the "physical globe" in the greek, yet that is how you are "interpreting" it in the English. We are not asking you to translate it through some "other language" but through the "ORIGINAL language" that the Gospel of Matthew was given to us in. Why are you refusing to understand how the word aion was defined in the original language, and yet you are willing to trust the definition given to it 2000 years later in a different language?

Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye cannot discern this time?

Why would Christ rebuke them for not being able to discern a time 2000+ years in a future not their own? They certainly would NOT have the ability to discern the events of the Coming of Christ in the 21st Century....unless of course, "this time was meant for them (the hypocrites Jesus was addressing, a time that they had the ability to discern), and not us.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[Wildfire]

sigh. I am neither niave or suffering from a lack of understanding of this chapter and the message that Jesus Christ is clearly giving to his disciples. But sadly, there is confusion among some of you, and I will pray for your eyes to be opened to the truth.

I TRUST what I read in my bible, and I believe every word of it. >>For in the beginning was the word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.

Do you not know that this is spoken of Jesus Christ who has been with God from the beginning:

Behold I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

To question the truth of one sentence with another, is lacking in faith of a God that I base my life upon.
The truth is that Matthew 24 has not been completely fulfilled; and I would not want to change any word of Jesus, to fit my own life and what I envision of a future, so that I can better sleep at night.

Is there a wise one among you?

For beyond the book of Matthew lies the Revelation of Jesus Christ. And these words are sacred, and not to be questioned or changed.

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things that are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Amen.

Wildfire

 

[Bobcat]

Wildfire: Let see if I follow your logic. Since we have the King James Version of the Bible should we just stop studying the original Hebrew and Greek? Is it just a waste of time.

If there is a discrepancy between the original Hebrew or Greek and the KJV should we automatically accept the KJV?

The widely used NIV uses age instead of world in Matthew 24. Is the NIV wrong and the KJV right? And if so, why? Isn't it okay for us to try to figure out why there is a difference between the two translations?

Should seminaries stop churning out Hebrew and Greek scholars since we already have the KJV?

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Wildfire


For beyond the book of Matthew lies the Revelation of Jesus Christ. And these words are sacred, and not to be questioned or changed.

Wildfire

Except of course when you yourself decide to question and change the terms "shortly, soon, quickly, at hand, etc", from their plain, literal meaning, into 2000+ years.

The it's ok to Change them right?

 

[NumberOneSon]

To question the truth of one sentence with another, is lacking in faith of a God that I base my life upon.

.

I am not questioning the Word of God, Wildfire. Textual criticism allows us to understand what the original manuscripts said, so I believe that we have the Word of God today, and it can be trusted. But the Word was not originally written in English, and in our modern translations there are differences between the texts. These differences can be recognized and understood, but there are still differences. Mistranslation does not effect inerrancy, so I am not questioning the truth of God's Word.

But if you think that inerrancy means that there cannot be one mistranslation error then you are seriously mistaken, because there have been plenty over the years. The word aion in the scriptures means "age", not the "physical planet", not the "universe". "Age" IS what the Word of God says in the original language, the one you get your translation from.

There is no confusion among us. We are trying to understand God's word using the scriptural and grammatical context of His Word. If the English language clashes with that, then you know what I'll trust. I hope this helps you to understand where we are coming from, Wildfire.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[jenlu]

Just a bit condenscending eh Wildfire...

My point...try to figure out what the "true" intention of the question asked by the disciple's at the beginning of what we call Matthew 24...like I said...I do this by looking at the original language used by the writers...it gives insight into what they intend to get across...the original written language was greek...so I use the written greek language to define in context....words...the word that is in many bible's as "world" is actually written in the greek as "aion" which means age in all it other usages in the Bible...so by simple hermeneutical deduction one can assume that this was meant by the original writers of the Bible to mean "age"...not world...which changes the question entirely...wouldn't you say so Wildfire..?

 

[Wildfire]

The original greek version says, what shall be the sign of thy coming and the completion of the age.

The king james version (most popular among Christians) says, what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world.

The point that Jesus was getting across to the disciples (who were not enquiring about their lives, but of the future) was to tell them about what was going to come. It was a private conversation, a telling of secrets.

Why do you think the disciples were so greived when Jesus told them he would suffer at the hands of men, and then be crucified? They knew he was going to die; they weren't looking for him to come back and fulfill this prophecy during their lifetimes. They had work to do; and it began with the disciples preaching the gospel that he gave them, and it concluded with the writing of the letters which later became the bible. So that we (yes, this generation) would have insight and understanding of these things.

I apologize if I sound condensending. I am passionate in this belief, that is why I am coming across so strongly on this subject.

Wildfire

 

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by Wildfire
The bible was not meant for our own interpretation. I do not need to search other bibles and translate specific words into another language to have understanding of what is being said...

Chapter 24 is filled with plain and simple warnings to all of us, about what to expect before the coming of Christ and of the end of the world.

I am sorry that you cannot see that.
Wildfire

*********************

Wildfire:
Personally friend, I agree with much of what you have said here.

And also that man was the party to the periods, comas, & chapter numbers. And these four books called the Gospels? these differ much even in the 'inspired' writters wordings. That is why, as you suggest, [THE BOOK] is needed. (all of it)

It was after Matt. 23 that the question comes from the disciples in verse 1 of Matt. 24. Without going into detail of the whole chapter, let me just point out that God CANNOT LIE, and He gives His explanation of this chapter and all others as well, using other verses of the Bible. (try 1 Cor. 14:32)

"The thing that has been: it [is that which shall be], Matt. 24!) and [that which is done is that which shall be done]; and [there is NO NEW THING] under the sun." (Again, Matt. 24)

Then: They [clarify this]! "Is there [anything whereof it may be said, See this is new?] You go look it up for the Godheads answer, before we 'garblel' the answer all up! That is in Eccl. 1:9-10!

And just in case we still cannot understand Matt. 24 & still need more of mans wisdom that is 'foolishness' with God? lets try Eccl. 3:14-15

"I know that, whatsoever God doeth, (sayeth) it shall stand [forever]: nothing can be be put to it, [nor anything taken from it] .. (sounds like the last verses of the ending of the Bible) That which hath been IS NOW, and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which [is past]."

Bottom line: ALL of Matt. 24 has a repeat!
Just one proof.
Verse 14 says: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a wittness unto all nations; [AND THEM SHALL THE END COME]."??

If Paul and the new Christian believers had not understood the [twice repeated] history REQUIREMENT in the Gospel, unless God so stated otherwise, he & they would have had a real problem! For in Rom. 10:16 (around 60 A.D.--10 yrs. before the destruction of Jerusalem) he penned: "But I say, Have they not heard? [YES VERILY, THEIR SOUND WENT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS UNTO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD]."

So, what ever happened to the Matt. 24:14's truth?? Surely most Christians of Pauls day, along with Paul, would have make shipwreck if they had not [understood] the repeated history requirement!

And of course Wildfire, you bring up the last days of Noah
being re/lived again! Or is this a figment of our imagination of what we are seeing & reading about professed religion in the 'worlds' daily news? Days of Sodom & Gomorrah?? What shakes 'c'hristians up? not much!

Your post is by far a good one. So hang in there! Remember how the Writer (RED letters) felt about all of this in the previous chapter 36-38, about His gereration and His denomination, AND the last history repeated one?
Pastor N.B.

 

[Wildfire]

thank you pastor, I needed to hear that.

Wildfire

 

[jenlu]

the completion of what age or the end of what age?...that is the question...I believe it was the age about to end within the generation then living ended...now if you want to discuss the signs(although I'm sure you've heard the explanations before) we can...but I believe matthew 24 to be about that generation...you believe it to be about this generation...fine...so we've gone nowhere...

 

[jenlu]

Did I get this straight,

Pastor N.B. is saying there is a dual fulfillment of the scripture's of Matthew 24...if so and you agree with him Wildfire then I guess you agree with me to a point...waz up...

 

[armothe]

Pastor N.B.

To answer Christ's requirement:

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:14)

Paul states several times this has been accomplished:

All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth. (Colossian 1:6)

if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. (Colossians 1:23)

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. (Romans 1:8)

But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world (Romans 10:16-18)

What would you make of Paul's words?

-A