rollinTHUNDER
Veteran
- Dec 30, 2001
- 1,936
- 13
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Protestant
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Friend, I do not expect you to be able to understand the historical
fulfillment of Great Tribulation prophecies...
However, the Biblical FACT is --- I have listed 17 passages
that represent EVENTS occurring during the (4th) Great Tribulation and
your eschatology cannot harmonize more than three-or-four passages.
Now UNDERSTAND it was not ME that wrote those passages... it is the Bible.
For you to NOT try to harmonize your "gospel" with more than a few of the many
different related passages PROVES your "gospel" is false.
In fact, when you intentionally ignore passages that CONTRADICT
your current "gospel" (and there are MANY in the 17 I listed for you)
then you are DEMONSTRATING that you do not submit to the authority
of the Bible but, instead, you seek to make Scripture say what you want.
Of course, you could easily prove me wrong by simply SHOWING how
your theories can harmonize with ALL SCRIPTURES - including the 17
related passages I gave you.... but you will not.
You will not TRY to harmonize your "gospel" with ALL SCRIPTURE because
you know that you cannot....
Instead, you will pretend that intentionally ignoring passages is OK.
What other choice do you have (besides submitting to the Bible)?
You KNOW that your gospel is destroyed with ONE CONTRADICTION
so you will run-away and pretend that all is well.
.
Straightshot said in post 34:
The taken and left contrast has nothing to do with the "rapture" even though many try to apply it ....
Straightshot said in post 34:
.... there are so many other scriptures that support the pre-tribulation event and many do not know about them
Straightshot said in post 36:
And the Lord will gather the surviving mortal Gentiles of the nations and separate them [sheep, Goats] . . .
iamlamad said in post 74:
And neither does the human spirit and soul go into some kind of sleep. We are created in His image and after His likeness.
5thKingdom said in post 78:
Mat_13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Interplanner said in post 82:
The historic Gospel has nothing to do with figuring out the Rev per se.
-----------------------
Sorry... Revelations 18:4 makes it CLEARY that the Saints are "taken"
out of Babylon BEFORE the "tares" are destroyed.
And Matthew 25:10 CLEARLY shows the "Wise Virgins" are "taken" into
the "Marriage" and the "Door was Shut" BEFORE the "Foolish Virgins"
were destroyed.
The problem (for traditional eschatology) is that the Great Tribulation
is shown from MANY different perspectives and we do not find Truth
with the harmony of only two or three perspectives... before you can
even PRETEND to have Truth you must be able to harmonize ALL the
related passages.
For example: In the Bible the Great Tribulation period is shown from (at least)
Seventeen different perspectives. We cannot PRETEND to have found Truth
when our theory can only harmonize with two-or-three-or-four of the 17.
From the perspective of a SINGLE KINGDOM - the Great Tribulation is shown as:
(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast, (2) the 7-Headed Revelations Beast, (3) Satan's "Little Season",
(4) the Reign of the "Little Horn", (5) the "Ten Virgins" prophecy, (6) the "Ten Kings",
(7) the Kingdom of "Ten Horns" and (8) the "Ten Toes" of iron and clay.
From the perspective of a DUAL KINGDOM - the Great Tribulation is shown as:
(9) Two separate Trumpet Judgments, (10) Two separate and distinct "Woes",
(11) Two separate Beasts - the First Beast, then an "image" of the First Beast and
(12) Locusts that "torment" those in the 4th Kingdom for a period of "five months".
To understand Truth about Daniel's (4th) Great Tribulation we must first be able to harmonize all Scriptures
related to the passages above - because each prophecy represents a different perspective on the Great Tribulation Kingdom.
All these prophecies represent the same people experiencing the same events -just from different perspectives.
When we THINK we understand something about the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom we must TEST
that idea against ALL SCRIPTURE. If we find that we can only harmonize SOME of the passages
... then we KNOW that we have not found Truth.
From the perspective of FOUR PERIODS - the Great Tribulation is shown as:
(13) Four (4) separate "Watches of the Night".
(14) the "days" when Saints "dead bodies shall lie in the street".
(15) the "times" when the Saints are nourished in the "wilderness" and
(16) the "times" when the "Little Horn" rules Daniel's 4th Kingdom and
(17) the "forty and two months" (representing 3.5 "years") when the "Holy City"
is being "tread under foot".
In order to understand the Biblical Truth about Daniel's (4th) Great Tribulation
we must FIRST harmonize all Scriptures related to that Beast - because the Bible
provides several different perspectives of the Kingdom.
It's not significant, and there's no Biblical validation and, therefore,
there is no spiritual "authority" in harmonizing two-or-three passages
out of SEVENTEEN (17) related passages.
Likewise, it's not significant, and there's NO spiritual "authority" to harmonize
only five-or-six-or-seven of the SEVENTEEN (17) related passages BECAUSE
if even ONE PASSAGE contradicts your eschatological "theory"... then if is PROVEN
to be un-Biblical and false.
Most doctrinal error in both Jewish and Christian Eschatology is the result
of not being able to harmonize ALL Scripture. Before we can even begin
to claim Biblical Truth about Great Tribulation prophecies (events) we must
FIRST be able to harmonize at least these seventeen (17) related passages above.
Because, if even ONE PASSAGE of Scripture does not harmonize
... that PROVES we have not found Biblical Truth.
.
-------------
This is a picture of the Final Harvest.
In this picture you see that there are TWO existing together at "the end",
these TWO represent the PEOPLE living at time of the Final Harvest which
occurs from Daniel's (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.
However, contrary to traditional eschatology and common opinion,
after the "wheat" are "taken"... the "tares" are left-behind while
the 4th Kingdom (of Babylon) is destroyed. In fact, you see this same picture
in Rev 18:4 as the Lord commands the "wheat" to "Come Out of Her".
These PEOPLE who exist together during the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom
represent the "Wise Virgins" and the "Foolish Virgins" of the
(4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom. These PEOPLE are also presented as the
"Ten Toes" of the Great Tribulation (Dan 2), with the Iron and Clay being
the "Wise" and the "Foolish" Virgins.
The ISSUE that confuses most folks about the passage above is that
one is "taken" and the other is left-behind ON EARTH and that contradicts
most eschatology about the Final Harvest... but most eschatology is wrong.
In fact, that period of time AFTER the Final Harvest is represented in MANY
different passages:
It is shown as the "Season and Time" on earth AFTER the destruction of
Daniel's 4th Beast (Dan 7:11-12).
It is shown as the time AFTER the 2nd Woe is "past"... but BEFORE the
3rd Woe begins at the 7th Trumpet (Rev 11:14)
It is shown as the time AFTER the False Prophet and Beast are "cast alive"
into the "Lake-of-Fire"... but BEFORE Satan and "his land" JOIN THEM
in the same "Lake-of-Fire" (compare Rev 19:20 and 20:10)
It is shown as the time when those who are left-behind BEGIN TO SEE
all the prophets in the Kingdom of God - and themselves "thrust out" (Lk 13:25-28)
And, in the experiences of the "Ten Virgins" it is shown as the time
after the "Wise Virgins" are taken into the "Marriage" and the "Door was Shut"
----------
Mat 25:10 And while they [foolish virgins] went to buy, the bridegroom [Jesus] came; and they that were ready [wise virgins] went in with him to the marriage [5th Eternal Kingdom]: and the door was shut [harvest is done].
------------
The fact is, there are MANY PASSAGES that show the "Season and Time"
on earth AFTER the destruction of Daniel's 4th Beast... these passages were
just never understood before.
.
Friend, I do not expect you to be able to understand the historical
fulfillment of Great Tribulation prophecies...
However, the Biblical FACT is --- I have listed 17 passages
that represent EVENTS occurring during the (4th) Great Tribulation and
your eschatology cannot harmonize more than three-or-four passages.
Now UNDERSTAND it was not ME that wrote those passages... it is the Bible.
For you to NOT try to harmonize your "gospel" with more than a few of the many
different related passages PROVES your "gospel" is false.
In fact, when you intentionally ignore passages that CONTRADICT
your current "gospel" (and there are MANY in the 17 I listed for you)
then you are DEMONSTRATING that you do not submit to the authority
of the Bible but, instead, you seek to make Scripture say what you want.
Of course, you could easily prove me wrong by simply SHOWING how
your theories can harmonize with ALL SCRIPTURES - including the 17
related passages I gave you.... but you will not.
You will not TRY to harmonize your "gospel" with ALL SCRIPTURE because
you know that you cannot....
Instead, you will pretend that intentionally ignoring passages is OK.
What other choice do you have (besides submitting to the Bible)?
You KNOW that your gospel is destroyed with ONE CONTRADICTION
so you will run-away and pretend that all is well.
.
Preterism raises its ugly head again!Don't base anything on the REv that is not crystal clear elsewhere. Mt 24:40s "takens" have to do first with the 1st century Judean cataclysm, in which those taken were taken to destruction, not safety. It may have some repeat in the future, but the first meaning intended was in the case of the final day of judgement happening right after the DofJ. Since it did not, I doubt the sayings have the same application today as they would have had originally.
That event in Rev 20 is the final judgement of the world, but not an establishment of a kingdom on this earth but rather the new.
iamlamad said in post 88:
Jesus comes to the AIR FOR His saints at the pretrib rapture . . .
iamlamad said in post 88:
. . . the saints are taken to their mansions in heaven.
iamlamad said in post 88:
Read and understand 1 Thes 4 & 5 with John 14.
Most of those who participate on this forum try hard "NOT to understand" theories that no commentary would touch or mention, and are far OUTSIDE the "pale of orthodoxy" (Thanks to Hank) of the common beliefs of the church. Of course I am speaking of "5th Kingdom" theories.
Facts
Preterism is a false religion that seeks to destroy the fabric of the gospel of Jesus Christ which is base upon the writings of the prophets and the apostles [2 Peter 1:16-21]
And those that refute the Lord's intent to call His true ecclesia before He brings His unmitigated wrath upon an intransigent unbelieving world will not participate in the calling [Revelation 3:15-19]
To argue incessantly about these matters over and over again is a game of fools play .... and a total waste of time
The ranting is simply all about human ego and "my dog is bigger than your dog" ambition'
"Another view would be that it's our DUTY and PRIVELEGE to search the Scriptures
in order to harmonize all related passages and, therefore, find Biblical Truth."
Then do it
"I have."
Well guess what .... I do not think you have
What is .... is
I can straighten out the kink for you, but what bothers me is your up front presumptuous attitude
This tells me that you will not consider a more congruent view different from yours .... and I have no time for argumentation
... discussion, maybe? .... argument .... no
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?