Matthew 24:40-41

Straightshot said in post 5:

Matthew 24 is a focus upon Israel at the time of the end of this present age .... not today's church

The setting, location, and subjects in the passage should be evident . . .

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By the "location", do you mean the reference to "Judaea" (Matthew 24:16). If so, note that there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) today. They contain mostly Gentile believers, not just Jewish believers. The church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the church, both Gentiles and Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist's persecution of the church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up, and the Antichrist himself sits in the temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the church will reach every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), so that the basic principle of Matthew 24:16, of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution), would apply to believers around the world.

Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents many different people in the church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents many different, protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up, they should flee into places in the wilderness east of Judaea, the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the church who will be living in places in the world other than Judaea should flee into other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of food, water, warm clothing, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they shouldn't carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Job8 said in post 15:

"That day and that hour knoweth no man" (vv36,42) can only apply to the coming of the Lord FOR His saints.

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Note that Matthew 24:36,42,44 refers to Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:37,42,44), which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus can mean that only if believers don't watch (stay awake, spiritually) during the tribulation, the 2nd coming will happen at an hour they don't know/think not (cf. the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). In the context of Matthew 24:36,42,44, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4).

Also, Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36); he doesn't say "of that day and hour no man will know". So it is possible that at a certain point in our future, some believers will come to know the date (as in the year, month, and day) of the 2nd coming before it happens. Also, if we mistakenly think that Jesus can come today or tomorrow (as is sometimes claimed by the pre-tribulation and preterist views), then how can we also claim that he will come when nobody thinks he will (Matthew 24:44)?

Also, compare the following: "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), "the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). If we claim that the first verse means that no man will ever know the date of the 2nd coming until it happens, then to be consistent we would have to also claim that the second verse means that no man, not even believers, can know the things of God until the 2nd coming. But who would say that? For the Holy Spirit can currently reveal to believers the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). He can currently guide them into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of the 2nd coming. For, again, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says would include the 2nd coming: Surely God the Father won't send Jesus back without having first revealed to some believers the secret of the date of the 2nd coming.

Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

"By the "location", do you mean the reference to "Judaea" (Matthew 24:16). If so, note that there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) today."


Of course by Judea, but even more by this [Zechariah 14:5-6; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 12:6; 12:14]

There are a few of professing Christianity there today, but I question their authenticity because of their affiliations

The majority are of Israel as projected by the Bible prophets

Matthew 24 and Luke 21:20-36 is a future projection by the Lord of the time of the end still pending

.... and He speaks to His early followers who were of the nation of Israel about their nation ..... what He does not tell them is "when" [Acts 1:6-7]

He is not speaking to the "church", but to His nation of Israel

Danoh said:

No, no - no guessing allowed - we have enough of those on here, lol

I will differ with you as to those lukewarm and or as to one's particular eschatology's impact on their salvation.

Romans 5 makes it not only clear that those who have been justified by faith without works shall be saved from wrath through His life.

Depends on whether or not they were justified before their lukewarm-ness and or eschatology. If before, then they are justified and sealed in Him.

Ephesians 1:

13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

As Israel's failure under the Law only served to point to God's coming Glory in His Son, that side of the Cross, our failure under His Grace and His Kindness toward us in His Son this side of the Cross just points to His Glory!

In this, the issue now is...

Romans 5:

1. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2. By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

17. For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.]
18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Grace reigns through the righteousness of One freely given us in Him unto eternal life - what this righteousness given us in Him produces is the same element - righteousness that is eternal.

Nevertheless - Romans 6:

1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

This grace wherein we stand justified before the Father in His Son by faith, and therefore at peace with the Father; His wrath appeased - this grace is not a license to sin, rather - freedom from the flesh - to serve.

That some end up lukewarm because performance based acceptance is what they are taught, as you are promoting in your post, iamlamad, and hat others never sort this out and end up preterist, post-trib, you name it, does not render this truth not so.

Question is - It depends on whether or not they were justified before their lukewarm-ness and or eschatology. If before, then they are justified and sealed in Him.

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If you imagine being spit out of His mouth is the same as being gathered, there is not much anyone could to do convince you otherwise.

The lukewarm will be spit out into the tribulation

Why ..... because they are not of the Lord's true ecclesia .... there could be no other reason

He tells then that after the "spitting", they are on the other side of the door and must repent just like anyone else in the tribulation

The professing church is full of these fence sitters today with no oil [Matthew 25:1-13]

Originally Posted by jduck1986
so I emailed Kenneth Gentry on the subject of Matthew 24:40-41 and this is what he said.

"I believe what this passage is talking about is the final judgment when Christ returns. One will be taken away to hell in judgment. The other will be left to enter into the new heavens and new earth. Or perhaps more simply, one will be taken in judgment and the other left.

It can't speak of the supposed secret rapture because it occurs after the great tribulation (Matt 24:21). "

jduck1986 said:

So as a follow up to Mr Gentry's response, the following question comes to mind. We know that at the second coming, everyone is resurrected. However. He seems to be suggesting that only the wicked are resurrected. anyone else see this?

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This Gentry person is not speaking of resurrection aspects, rather, about a distinction between those on earth who will be taken into judgment and those who will be left to enter the kingdom.

As in this here, from Matthew 13:

36. Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38. The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39. The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42. And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

It is passages like this that resulted in the recovery of the Dispensational Hermeneutic.

In the passage, the Lord asserts that at His return, His angels will sever out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.

This is the understanding He once more gave the Twelve as to His promise to return to restore said kingdom in Acts 1 also:

3. To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

6. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?[/B]
7. And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

The Spirit reaffirmed this also, through Peter, the basis of which was Christ's resurrection as that prove He was Israel's promised King - Acts 3:

18. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

As for that resurrection you asked of, that is this here, in John 5:

28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Note how hat these things are described as if in light of a clock that works much like that in games like basketball. Where, when said clock is stopped, time within that game is stopped until said clock is started up once more, to begin where it left things off.

Hours outside of that clock may have continued on. But the time and events within that clock have been on hold.

Or, as in the case of a murder that took decades to solve, until then that victim's family's day of justice has been on hold.

Hebrews 8:

32. And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33. Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34. Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36. And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37. They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38. [Of whom the world was not worthy:] they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40. God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Revelation 6:

9. And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11. And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

jduck1986 said:

"Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left."

I am wondering if anyone could attempt to interpret this passage of scripture for me, whatever your eschatology belief is. I actually welcome different points of view on this. Thanks.

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Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left."

The "field is the world, and as a servant of the true God, we are to be tending the vineyard of the Good Master, as we read in the parable of Matthew 21:, until the true Christ comes. Many pray and sing that they will be taken by the first to come, and in ignorance they pray to be taken by the Antichrist.

The one that is taken first is the one that is taken by Antichrist, we are to occupy our position in the field until until Jesus comes at the end of this earth age.

Matthew 24:41 "Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

The subject is the coming of the Antichrist, and the first one taken is the one taken by Satan the Antichrist. We are to continue to grind out the meal for the bread of Life, and the bread is the body of Christ, and His holy Word. Occupy until I come, we are commanded.

jduck1986 said:

"Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left."

I am wondering if anyone could attempt to interpret this passage of scripture for me, whatever your eschatology belief is. I actually welcome different points of view on this. Thanks.

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Yes, this is part of the potential challenge to the standard "rapture" interpretation, with perhaps going together with the following three passages...

"And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe."" (Rev 14:15)

"Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”" (Matt 13:30)

"Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, then comes the harvest’? Look, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and see that the fields are white for harvest." (John 4:35)

And as Parousia says here, the taking away is what happens to the sinners in the flood; it isn't a rapture.

It seems perhaps that the harvest begins at the time of Jesus, and the tares are gathered first.

jduck1986 said:

So as a follow up to Mr Gentry's response, the following question comes to mind. We know that at the second coming, everyone is resurrected. However. He seems to be suggesting that only the wicked are resurrected. anyone else see this?

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HOW do we know that all are resurrected after the second coming?

n2thelight said:

Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left."

The "field is the world, and as a servant of the true God, we are to be tending the vineyard of the Good Master, as we read in the parable of Matthew 21:, until the true Christ comes. Many pray and sing that they will be taken by the first to come, and in ignorance they pray to be taken by the Antichrist.

The one that is taken first is the one that is taken by Antichrist, we are to occupy our position in the field until until Jesus comes at the end of this earth age.

Matthew 24:41 "Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

The subject is the coming of the Antichrist, and the first one taken is the one taken by Satan the Antichrist. We are to continue to grind out the meal for the bread of Life, and the bread is the body of Christ, and His holy Word. Occupy until I come, we are commanded.

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How silly! As if the antichrist has power as God does to snatch up people from around the world, not to mention actually raise millions from the dead! ONLY JESUS will perform this, with the Holy Spirit.

iam

The taken and left contrast has nothing to do with the "rapture" even though many try to apply it .... there are so many other scriptures that support the pre-tribulation event and many do not know about them

The passage in question is given to a regathered Israel in the Middle East and has nothing to do with the church

Those taken will be taken in the judgment during the time of Jacob's trouble [the unbelieving]

Those mortals left of Israel who turn the the Lord will enter and populate His millennial kingdom

Straightshot said:

iam

The taken and left contrast has nothing to do with the "rapture" even though many try to apply it .... there are so many other scriptures that support the pre-tribulation event and many do not know about them

The passage in question is given to a regathered Israel in the Middle East and has nothing to do with the church

Those taken will be taken in the judgment during the time of Jacob's trouble [the unbelieving]

Those mortals left of Israel who turn the the Lord will enter and populate His millennial kingdom

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I think this also applies to Jews worldwide, not just in the middle east.
For Gentiles that will be left to physically go into the kingdom see
Mt. 25:31-46

Correct .... thanks for the reminder

There will be those of Israel still living in the nations at the time [Luke 21:21-21; Revelation 12:17]

And the Lord will gather the surviving mortal Gentiles of the nations and separate them [sheep, Goats] just as you have indicated

Straightshot said:

Correct .... thanks for the reminder

There will be those of Israel still living in the nations at the time [Luke 21:21-21; Revelation 12:17]

And the Lord will gather the surviving mortal Gentiles of the nations and separate them [sheep, Goats] just as you have indicated

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The big picture is that only believers can go into the kingdom.

Correct

Those that favor Israel during the tribulation [the Lord's brethern [kin]] will understand

Not like those of the professing church today who don't get it .... the replacement theologists

You must have the same book that I have

jduck1986 said:

"Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left."

I am wondering if anyone could attempt to interpret this passage of scripture for me, whatever your eschatology belief is. I actually welcome different points of view on this. Thanks.

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Hi jd,

It is my understanding that this is a parabolic explanation of Revelation 14:14-20

I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man" with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, "Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe." The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

In a later post you also asked:

jduck1986 said:

So as a follow up to Mr Gentry's response, the following question comes to mind. We know that at the second coming, everyone is resurrected. However. He seems to be suggesting that only the wicked are resurrected. anyone else see this?

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I'm not sure who Mr. Gentry is, but I do not agree that there is any teaching that at the second coming everyone is resurrected. The Revelation describes two resurrections. The resurrection of the righteous who will live through the 1000 year reign of Jesus upon the earth. After that will come the resurrection of the remaining dead for the final judgment.

That's how I understand it.

Revelation 20:1-6

And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

This passage clearly explains that there are two resurrections. This is the first.

Revelation 20:7-10

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Notice here that the number who come against God's people are numbered as the sand on the seashore also. This is the passage that describes for me that there will actually be a whole lot more people than we might think to imagine who will not accept God's offer of mercy. Notice also that God's people (those who have lived the 1000 year reign of Christ) will be in God's city, Jerusalem.

After that epic battle in which God himself will destroy them by fire coming down from heaven. The children of God will be safe and secure within the city as God fights the final battle.

Then will come the very final and last judgment of God. All men will be judged by their deeds and those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life will be set apart forever, from those whose names are in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

My comment

Ken Gentry is a hyper preterist and why he is teaching falsehood