Matthew 24:31

[Hismessenger]

Christ is the cornerstone of the church. When did this take place? You say the church was yet future but evidently you keep reading the same some one told you about instead of studying to show thy self approved.

Let me give you some of the old testament Prophets word from the spirit. and maybe they can shake you awake from your stupor.

Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Pro 8:32 ¶ Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.

Pro 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

Pro 8:34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.

Pro 8:35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.

Pro 8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

So now let me ask you once again, Who laid the foundation of the church and when. Christ said I will build my church but He had first laid the foundation. You cannot build on a corner stone set on sand.When He said I will build my church doesn't mean that the church wasn't already about. Look at the carnal churches. They start out with a few members and add to them by being obedient to the Faith and following the Lord just as He said in these verse from Proverbs. Paul was alluding to the foundation of Christ which had been laid from everlasting. Not his own foundation for he was only a member of Christ church which Christ had set up from the beginning.

And if this can't shake you, read Job when the Lord questions him about the same thing written above.

hismessenger

 

[Biblewriter]

Christ is the cornerstone of the church. When did this take place? You say the church was yet future but evidently you keep reading the same some one told you about instead of studying to show thy self approved.

Let me give you some of the old testament Prophets word from the spirit. and maybe they can shake you awake from your stupor.

So now let me ask you once again, Who laid the foundation of the church and when. Christ said I will build my church but He had first laid the foundation. You cannot build on a corner stone set on sand.When He said I will build my church doesn't mean that the church wasn't already about. Look at the carnal churches. They start out with a few members and add to them by being obedient to the Faith and following the Lord just as He said in these verse from Proverbs. Paul was alluding to the foundation of Christ which had been laid from everlasting. Not his own foundation for he was only a member of Christ church which Christ had set up from the beginning.

And if this can't shake you, read Job when the Lord questions him about the same thing written above.

hismessenger

Will means future. Again, you cannot find even one scripture that says the church existed before Jesus said, "I will build my church."

 

[Hismessenger]

In eternity, there is no FUTURE. He was there from the beginning, ordained to be the savior of the world. First born before man knew anything about anything.

hismessenger

 

[Biblewriter]

In eternity, there is no FUTURE. He was there from the beginning, ordained to be the savior of the world. First born before man knew anything about anything.

hismessenger

While that is absolutely correct, it has zero bearing on the order of events that take place in time.

 

[Hismessenger]

You really have no clue? The order of events which take place in time take place in eternity now today. There is no past nor future only now and all that takes place in time has already happened in eternity today forever. So for you to say it has absolutely no bearing on the events of time show that you really don't get.

hismessenger

 

[Biblewriter]

You really have no clue? The order of events which take place in time take place in eternity now today. There is no past nor future only now and all that takes place in time has already happened in eternity today forever. So for you to say it has absolutely no bearing on the events of time show that you really don't get.

hismessenger

It is you who really has no clue, if you confuse eternity and time.

There is unquestionably an order of events in time. And statements of that order mean exactly what they say.

 

[Hismessenger]

Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

What do these scripture say to you Biblewriter? Since you are so literal in your conception of what the word says.

hismessenger

 

[Biblewriter]

What do these scripture say to you Biblewriter? Since you are so literal in your conception of what the word says.

hismessenger

These were all great people of faith. But no scripture anywhere says that were part of that "one new man" that was made out of believing Hews and believing gentiles. (Ephesians 2:15)

Do you have any idea what the word "new" means? It means something that did not exist before.

 

[Hismessenger]

Yea, there is nothing new under the sun. Ever heard that before? What you are saying is that the whole precept of the church means nothing because if these people walked in and received a good report through faith then what makes us any different. Are we not all governed by the same principal. Yes I know what new means and it is not what you are supposing by your lack of understanding. The concept of the church was formed before the world began with Christ as it's redeemer. That's not new, it is older than time itself but it is new to man for he had no clue what God was about. That is where faith comes in for you must trust God in everything that he is doing even when you don't understand. Abraham, did, Noah did, and what do you have to say about Enoch. He was taken long before the church was made manifest. And why did Moses and Elijah appear with Christ on the mount of Olives. There is too much evidence in the scripture to support what I am saying but you want to hold to a crumbling position when the truth is there before you. How many other scripture do I have to show you which points to the obedience of the Faith in order for you to relent with your opinions.

hismessenger

 

[Biblewriter]

Yea, there is nothing new under the sun. Ever heard that before? What you are saying is that the whole precept of the church means nothing because if these people walked in and received a good report through faith then what makes us any different. Are we not all governed by the same principal. Yes I know what new means and it is not what you are supposing by your lack of understanding. The concept of the church was formed before the world began with Christ as it's redeemer. That's not new, it is older than time itself but it is new to man for he had no clue what God was about. That is where faith comes in for you must trust God in everything that he is doing even when you don't understand. Abraham, did, Noah did, and what do you have to say about Enoch. He was taken long before the church was made manifest. And why did Moses and Elijah appear with Christ on the mount of Olives. There is too much evidence in the scripture to support what I am saying but you want to hold to a crumbling position when the truth is there before you. How many other scripture do I have to show you which points to the obedience of the Faith in order for you to relent with your opinions.

hismessenger

Regardless of how you wrest it, you cannot escape the undeniable fact that ephesians 2:15 explicitly says this one man was something new.

 

[Hismessenger]

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

hismessenger

 

[Biblewriter]

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;


​

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism
​

hismessenger

Is this supposed to mean that Ephesians 2:15 is not true?

 

[Hismessenger]

No, it is to show what it has always been for those of the faith.

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

As I said before, God from the beginning has always accepted those who walked in faith. It started with Abel in Genesis where God accepted his sacrifice. What was His
true sacrifice. His obedience of Faith. He trusted God's will and did what was right in God's eyes.

hismessenger

 

[riverrat]

No, it is to show what it has always been for those of the faith.



As I said before, God from the beginning has always accepted those who walked in faith. It started with Abel in Genesis where God accepted his sacrifice. What was His
true sacrifice. His obedience of Faith. He trusted God's will and did what was right in God's eyes.

hismessenger

Did it not start in the garden with Adam and Eve?

 

[Biblewriter]

No, it is to show what it has always been for those of the faith.



As I said before, God from the beginning has always accepted those who walked in faith. It started with Abel in Genesis where God accepted his sacrifice. What was His
true sacrifice. His obedience of Faith. He trusted God's will and did what was right in God's eyes.

hismessenger

This is completely true, and has zero bearing on the fact that Ephesians 2:15 says the church was something new, something that did not exist before.

Just because someone was a person of faith did not make him a member of the church. Among those born of women before the time of John the Baptist there was not even one greater that He. But he that is least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater that John the Baptist. (Matthew 11:11, Luke 7:28) John referred to the bride of Christ as not including himself. For He only classified himself as the friend of the bridegroom.

"He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled. "(John 3:29)

 

[Hismessenger]

Just because someone was a person of faith did not make him a member of the church.

Then explain to us how you become a member of the church if it isn't by faith.

hismessenger

 

[Biblewriter]

Then explain to us how you become a member of the church if it isn't by faith.

hismessenger

This is nothing short of silly. The only way to become a member of the family of faith is through faith. And the family of faith in this age is the church. But you are falsely assuming that everyone who was ever a person of faith was a member of the church. No scripture says that, and some scriptures say the very opposite. And the entire subject of the book of Hebrews is how much better is our lot that that of believers of past ages.

All your rationalizing cannot get around the scriptures that clearly say that the church was something new.

 

[Hismessenger]

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Does God not make this same statement in Duet: 7

Deu 7:6 — For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

If your focus is all about the natural, you will never see what the spirit is saying.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever

Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

God's word doesn't change because the world has changed. If he said it back then, it is like gold forever. What he gives to us, he doesn't turn around and give something different to others. His promises are eternal from everlasting to all who hear his word and obey the faith

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

hismessenger

 

[Biblewriter]

Does God not make this same statement in Duet: 7



If your focus is all about the natural, you will never see what the spirit is saying.





God's word doesn't change because the world has changed. If he said it back then, it is like gold forever. What he gives to us, he doesn't turn around and give something different to others. His promises are eternal from everlasting to all who hear his word and obey the faith

hismessenger

All your reasoning cannot escape the fact that this same word of God explicitly said the the church was something new.