Matt 24:20 Pray your flight not be on a sabbath or in winter

BABerean2 · Aug 5, 2018

mkgal1 said:
I'm still pondering this myself, but what's making sense in my mind is that this verse -below- is also relevant to this (except this passage only mentions "the saints"). My eschatological view is the "already inaugurated but not yet consummated" belief. Ray Vander Laan mentions in one of his videos that when these bodies were resurrected, it happened during the Feast of First Fruits (and these resurections may have represented a portion of what is yet to come):

Matthew 27:52 ~ The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.

From this blog post ~ https://leviticalfulfillment.wordpr...filled-the-feasts-of-israel-during-holy-week/ :

Now one of the amazing signs that occurred when Jesus died—besides the earthquake and ripping of the veil in the Temple—was that holy people who had died were resurrected from the dead (Matt. 27:52-53). But then the Scriptures say something that, when you think about it, seems kind of strange. If it had happened to you, don’t you think you’d have run home and told everybody about it? Instead, those who had been resurrected remained hidden. They did not immediately present themselves in the holy city, Jerusalem; rather, they waited until Jesus rose from the dead. Why? In order that Jesus, the High Priest, could present them to the Father as a firstfruits offering after He had risen from the dead and in order to fulfill the Feast of Firstfruits on the 18th of Nisan, just after the weekly Sabbath (Lev. 23:9-14). More on that will follow.

Jesus was buried just before sundown at the end of the day, Nisan 14th, just before the “dawning” of the new day, the special Sabbath of Unleavened Bread, Nisan 15. Since Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, He entered Jerusalem as King on a Sabbath and then would be raised from the dead in victory on the Sabbath, in 3 days (72 hours), just as He said He would. Jesus fulfilled the sign of Jonah! In 1 Corinthians 15:3, we read: “For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.”

According to what Scriptures? The only Scripture they had at the time was the Old Testament! Jesus fulfilled Jonah 1:17, among other Scriptures.

Jesus rose at the very end of the weekly Sabbath, Nisan 17, “just before dawn.” Are there any other proofs of the double Sabbaths? Yes, in Matthew 28, we read: “After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.” However, the word for Sabbath in this passage in Greek is a plural noun! The Greek for the word “Sabbath” is Sabbaton, which is actually a neuter plural noun. Most translators, not familiar with the Jewish Feasts, and thinking of the traditional Friday death and Sunday morning resurrection, translate it as singular. But when we look in Zondervan’s Parallel New Testament in Greek and English or in the NASB Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, we see that it is a plural noun: Sabbaths.

In Young’s Literal Translation we read:
28:1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulcher.

Does your timeline agree with that found in Luke's Gospel?

Luk 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
Luk 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
Luk 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Luk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

.

klutedavid · Aug 5, 2018

mmksparbud said:
where did you get that idea??
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I am a forgiven sinner.
1Jn_1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I do not understand what your claiming?

You admit to sinning.

We know that sin is lawlessness.

You are lawless and your telling other people that they must obey the law?

mmksparbud · Aug 6, 2018

klutedavid said:
I do not understand what your claiming?

You admit to sinning.

We know that sin is lawlessness.

You are lawless and your telling other people that they must obey the law?

What's the confusion?---If you should murder someone---God will even forgive thst if you repent. If you do not---then you're lost. If you do sin, you are not lost, we are saved by grace, repent and God will forgive. Repent means turn away from also-to stop doing it as He told the adulterous woman, go and sin no more. It's not rocket science. Don't break the commandments--the 1st four tell our duty to God the last 6 our duty to man--but if you do mess up--repent and don't do it again. Sanctification is a life long process. It is Jesus in us that keeps us from sinning, if you mess up, run back into His arms---what's so vague?

BABerean2 · Aug 6, 2018

mmksparbud said:
What's the confusion?---If you should murder someone---God will even forgive thst if you repent.

It sounds like you are confused...

If the Holy Spirit is working inside of you (John 14:26, 1 Corinthians 3:16) because you are a member of the New Covenant, you are not going to commit murder.

How many of those in the early Church are found murdering someone, as recorded in the New Testament? Zero

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

.

mmksparbud · Aug 6, 2018

BABerean2 said:
It sounds like you are confused...

If the Holy Spirit is working inside of you (John 14:26, 1 Corinthians 3:16) because you are a member of the New Covenant, you are not going to commit murder.

How many of those in the early Church are found murdering someone, as recorded in the New Testament? Zero

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

.

Oh for crying out loud--just as example--the worst one could do! Even David messed up!! It's called forgiveness---ever hear of it? Of course if you love God you automatically keep his commandments, but no one is without the possibility of messing up.
1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
IF!

BABerean2 · Aug 6, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Oh for crying out loud--just as example--the worst one could do! Even David messed up!! It's called forgiveness---ever hear of it? Of course if you love God you automatically keep his commandments, but no one is without the possibility of messing up.
1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
IF!

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

We do not have a license to sin, based on the words of the Apostle Paul found above.

David did not just "mess up".
He conspired to have Uriah killed, so that he could have Uriah's wife.
God took the child as a consequence of David's actions.

.

mmksparbud · Aug 6, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

We do not have a license to sin, based on the words of the Apostle Paul found above.

David did not just "mess up".
He conspired to have Uriah killed, so that he could have Uriah's wife.
God took the child as a consequence of David's actions.

.

NOBODY SAID WE DID!!! David did more than that, for he was directly responsible for the deaths all those other men around Uriah as well. And??? Do you mind getting to your point 'cause it looks like you are arguing with yourself just for the sake of arguing.

BABerean2 · Aug 6, 2018

mmksparbud said:
NOBODY SAID WE DID!!! David did more than that, for he was directly responsible for the deaths all those other men around Uriah as well. And??? Do you mind getting to your point 'cause it looks like you are arguing with yourself just for the sake of arguing.

Some of us have failed to "cast off" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" found in Galatians 4:24-31.

They are followers of the "bondwoman".

.
.

mkgal1 · Aug 6, 2018

DavidPT said:
The saints that came out of their graves did not resurrect before Christ did though, if that's what you are trying to say here.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

We're already pretty far off the original topic, but I will try to quickly address your post. If it needs more discussion then maybe that should take place in a new thread? I didn't expect there to be any controversy over my comment.

I'd posted this (which was a quote - not my own words):

mkgal1 said:
[...] those who had been resurrected remained hidden. They did not immediately present themselves in the holy city, Jerusalem; rather, they waited until Jesus rose from the dead. Why? In order that Jesus, the High Priest, could present them to the Father as a firstfruits offering after He had risen from the dead and in order to fulfill the Feast of Firstfruits on the 18th of Nisan, just after the weekly Sabbath (Lev. 23:9-14)

Where did they remain hidden? In their tombs is how I read it. You may already know this, but people weren't buried as most people are these days. They weren't in exposed grave sites - they were in tombs (that had room enough for mourners to gather for the days after the burial).

DavidPT said:
When verse 50 and 51 occurred, in verse 52 this occurred at that time as well----And the graves were opened

After Christ intially rose, then this part in verse 52 and 53 was fulfilled----and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The text clearly says they came out of the graves after His resurrection, His resurrection meaning Christ's. Christ did not resurrect the same day He died, so neither did the saints which slept rise the same day Christ died either. We have to keep in mind that a lot of times Scriptures are compressed, and what might appear on the surface to have taken place at the same time really didn't take place at the same time at all.

The text says (at least how I read it) that these people were raised from the dead when Jesus died.....but remained hidden (so, yes, your'e correct. They didn't come out of their graves until after His resurrection - right. I never posted anything otherwise). I've never heard of that being broken up into different occurrences (as if the graves opened when Jesus died....then there was a three day pause -then the people arose from the dead). That's an interesting way of interpreting the text.

claninja · Aug 6, 2018

mkgal1 said:
on the third day according to the Scriptures.”

According to what Scriptures? The only Scripture they had at the time was the Old Testament! Jesus fulfilled Jonah 1:17, among other Scriptures.

Considering Matthew 2, is the fulfillment of Hosea 11:

And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”
Matthew 2:14-15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 2:14-15&version=ESV

When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Hosea 11:1https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hosea%2011:1,8&version=ESV

I wonder how much prophecy about Israel, is a prophecy about Jesus.

Here is my favorite 3rd day rise. Verse from the OT:

After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him.
Hosea 6:2 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hosea 6:2&version=ESV

mkgal1 · Aug 6, 2018

claninja said:
I wonder how much prophecy about Israel, is a prophecy about Jesus.

My guess is that ALL of it can be.

I find it so encouraging to see just how Jesus fulfilled OT prophecy....but I have to say that out of all the years I've been sitting in church pews (or, in modern times...."chairs"), it's not typically a topic of sermons (beyond the basics, I mean). I wonder why? Is that everyone else's experience?

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 6, 2018

Yahweh did not change.
Yahweh's Word did not change.
Yahshua(Jesus) did not change.

Jesus, the Apostles and the disciples learned TORAH and proved Jesus is Messiah from TORAH, the PROPHETS and the PSALMS.

All the New Testament is in perfect harmony also, yet not so society -
society continues in massive rebellion against Yahweh and His Anointed ones.

A lot of churches went along with society, instead of remaining with Yahweh.

There are still those Yahweh called out for Himself, set apart for Himself, to be His Testimony in all the world, in every nation.

They/we still speak or preach or teach as the Father gives utterance, as He did through Jesus and the Apostles and the disciples all along.

mkgal1 said:
My guess is that ALL of it can be.

I find it so encouraging to see just how Jesus fulfilled OT prophecy....but I have to say that out of all the years I've been sitting in church pews (or, in modern times...."chairs"), it's not typically a topic of sermons (beyond the basics, I mean). I wonder why? Is that everyone else's experience?

claninja · Aug 6, 2018

mkgal1 said:
My guess is that ALL of it can be.

I find it so encouraging to see just how Jesus fulfilled OT prophecy....but I have to say that out of all the years I've been sitting in church pews (or, in modern times...."chairs"), it's not typically a topic of sermons (beyond the basics, I mean). I wonder why? Is that everyone else's experience?

I was thinking the same thing the other day. I definitely believe all of it is about Christ. I love reading the OT through the lens that it is all about Christ

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 6, 2018

OP:
Matthew 24:20 Pray your flight not be on a sabbath

What is the reason Jesus is telling the Jews to pray their flight doesn't happen on a sabbath, which would be between Friday evening thru Saturday evening?

The exact word form of #4521 used in Matt 24:20 is used in 15 verses [it is not used in Mark]
2 verses in Matt,
8 verses in Luke,
4 verses John
1 verse Acts

Here are the 2 verses from Matthew:

Matthew 12:2
But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto Him,
"behold! Thy Disciples do that which is not lawful to do in a sabbath"/σαββάτῳ<4521>

Matthew 24:20
And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither<3366 to a sabbath/σαββάτῳ<4521>

I will put the verses from Luke on next post....

klutedavid · Aug 6, 2018

mmksparbud said:
What's the confusion?---If you should murder someone---God will even forgive thst if you repent. If you do not---then you're lost. If you do sin, you are not lost, we are saved by grace, repent and God will forgive. Repent means turn away from also-to stop doing it as He told the adulterous woman, go and sin no more. It's not rocket science. Don't break the commandments--the 1st four tell our duty to God the last 6 our duty to man--but if you do mess up--repent and don't do it again. Sanctification is a life long process. It is Jesus in us that keeps us from sinning, if you mess up, run back into His arms---what's so vague?

Your definitely confused.

You freely admit to sinning, i.e., breaking the commandments.

Then you turn around and say, 'Don't break the commandments', which is a direct contradiction.

It sure sounds like your telling others to do something, that you fail to do yourself.

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 6, 2018

No.

klutedavid said:
Your definitely confused.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. This is necessary.

klutedavid said:
You freely admit to sinning, i.e., breaking the commandments.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, as Jesus teaches us, as Jesus taught all His disciples.
No, it is no contradiction at all.
Do you teach or tell a football team during a game to go ahead and run touchdowns for the other side ?

klutedavid said:
Then you turn around and say, 'Don't break the commandments', which is a direct contradiction.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

klutedavid said:
It sure sounds like your telling others to do something, that you fail to do yourself.

So ? This happens every day here on this forum. It is normal human behavior, right?

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 6, 2018

2 verses in Matt,
8 verses in Luke,
4 verses John
1 verse Acts

Here are the verses from Luke:
#1

Luke mentions the word #1207, which is used only in this 1 verse of the NT.

Luke 6:1
Yet became in a sabbath/σαββάτῳ<4521>,
second-first/(deuteroprōtos)<1207>, that He went through the corn fields,
and His disciples plucked the ears of corn and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.

1207. deuteroprotos dyoo-ter-op'-ro-tos
from 1208 and 4413; second-first, i.e. (specially) a designation of the Sabbath immediately after the Paschal week (being the second after Passover day, and the first of the seven Sabbaths intervening before Pentecost):--second ... after the first.

claninja · Aug 6, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
OP:
Matthew 24:20 Pray your flight not be on a sabbath

The exact word form of #4521 used in Matt 24:20 is used in 15 verses [it is not used in Mark]
2 verses in Matt,
8 verses in Luke,
4 verses John
1 verse Acts

Here are the 2 verses from Matthew:

Matthew 12:2
But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto Him,
"behold! Thy Disciples do that which is not lawful to do in a sabbath"/σαββάτῳ<4521>

Matthew 24:20
And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither<3366 to a sabbath/σαββάτῳ<4521>

I will put the verses from Luke on next post....

I think this all comes down to, was the law still in effect? Would this have affected gentile Christians living outside of Jerusalem who didn’t follow any of the feasts or sabbath laws? No

How about the Christian jews who continued to follow the feasts and sabbath laws? Quite possibly

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 6, 2018

claninja said:
I think this all comes down to, was the law still in effect? Would this have affected gentile Christians living outside of Jerusalem who didn’t follow any of the feasts or sabbath laws? No

How about the Christian jews who continued to follow the feasts and sabbath laws? Quite possibly

This would and did and will effect everyone who is seeking to live righteous life in Christ Jesus - exactly as Jesus said/ says. It will also affect all others, as well, all those who are not seeking to live right nor righteously in Christ Jesus, but far far worse for them.....

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 6, 2018

8 verses in Luke,

verse #2 of 8

Man with the withered hand in the "synagogue of the satan"

3584. xeros xay-ros' from the base of 3582 (through the idea of scorching); arid; by implication, shrunken, earth (as opposed to water):--dry land, withered.

Luke 6:6
And yet also in a different sabbath/σαββάτῳ<4521> Him to be entering into the synagogue and to be teaching
and was a man there and his right hand withered/ξηρός (xēros)<3584>.

Matthew 23:15
'Woe to ye, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! that ye go round the sea and the dry/ξηρός (xēros)<3584> to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen -- ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves.

Luke 23:31
for, if in the green tree they do these things -- in the dry/ξηρός (xēros)<3584> what may happen?'

Matt 24:20 Pray your flight not be on a sabbath or in winter

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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