Matt 1:21 He Shall save His People

[Brightfame52]

Matt 1:21

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The promise is not that He shall save all people without exception from their sins, but His People.

His People are those that are foreknown of God as per Rom 11:2

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.5

And No, all people are not foreknown by Jesus Christ as per Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now since He says He never knew them, then He never knew them before ! Which is what foreknow means:

Its made of Two greek words:

pro ginōskō

pro means:

before

ginosko means:

to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel

a) to become known

2) to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of

So those whom are not of the foreknown, are not the people who He came to save from their sins, for He never knew them.

 

[zoidar]

.

 

[zoidar]

Matt 1:21

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The promise is not that He shall save all people without exception from their sins, but His People.

His People are those that are foreknown of God as per Rom 11:2

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.5

And No, all people are not foreknown by Jesus Christ as per Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now since He says He never knew them, then He never knew them before ! Which is what foreknow means:

Its made of Two greek words:

pro ginōskō

pro means:

before

ginosko means:

to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel

a) to become known

2) to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of

So those whom are not of the foreknown, are not the people who He came to save from their sins, for He never knew them.

You are not giving up, are you?

"His people" has a new meaning in the NT. . .it's not based on natural birth.

Even if Paul uses "His people" the way you two suggest, doesn't mean it's used the same way in the Gospels.

In fact we can see that at least "God's people" can mean the people of Israel in the NT, since it does in Luke 2:32.

A Light of revelation to the Gentiles,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”
— Luke 2:32

 

[JLB777]

Matt 1:21

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Scripture could not be plainer than this, as to whom Jesus Christ was born to save from their sins, whom He is a Saviour to, His People !

Not the whole world of mankind, for many of them are not His People, but the devils children, the children of the wicked one Matt 13:38-39

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

The tare and the wheat are both by nature children of wrath, that is depraved, and sinful.

By nature you cannot tell the tare [children of the devil] and the wheat [ children of God by election] apart

notice vs

29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Again, thats because the tare and the wheat are very similar in behaviour by nature, both are sinful.

Being a Sheep, or wheat, or Gods people, does not mean they are not as others, sinners by nature.

Jesus said of the tares, the enemy that sowed them was the devil.

Now these people whom Jesus is saying that the devil sowed them into the world, are not the people Christ came to save. He came to save these Matt 13:37

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

He came to save the good seed, that He himself soweth, the Son of man.

The good seed is the elect as they stood in Adam in the beginning, remember after Adam was created, that He was pronounced very good, and He was said to be created in the image and likeness of God.

The Tares are the devils seed, remember when God told the Serpent [ the devil] that he had a seed ? Gen 3:15 so He [ the devil] is the enemy that sowed them.

For God never Loved those whom the devil sowed into the world, neither did Jesus come to save them from their sins, He did not give His life for the tares, the children of the wicked one. Show me a verse of scripture that declares that Jesus came to save them whom the devil sowed into the world !

In Jn 15:13 we read this:

13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

The devil nor his children are His friends, neither is the elect by nature, but He is their friend because they had before the world began, chosen in Him.

Now who are the people Christ came to save from their sins ? Who was the friend of God ?

2 Chron 20:7

7Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?

The Seed of Abraham thy Friend !

Isa 41:8

8But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

James 2:23

23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Hence, Jesus people whom He shall save from their sins, is the seed of Abraham, for it was for this people only that He came into flesh and blood and identified with

Heb 2:16

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham [His friend].

Here is what Christ said —


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16



Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 8:12


The condition for salvation is to believe.

 

[Clare73]

So everywhere in the NT where "His people" is used it refers to His elect? I don't think you mean that. Why do you think "His people" in Matt 1:21 refers to His elect?

It refers to those who believe in him. . .in the NT none who reject him can be called his people.
Now that the Messiah has been revealed, all mankind is on the same footing. . .his people are only those who believe in him. Which is no different than in the OT.
Only those who believed in the Promise (Jesus Christ) were made righteous, as it was with Abraham (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3). Saving righteousness (justification) is only by faith in Jesus Christ, apart from faith's works (Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28).

And that's because "Salvation is the Lord's!" (Revelation 7:10, Revelation 19:1),
his and his alone! (Revelation 4:11, Revelation 7:12)
Man cannot say he contributed anything. . .whatsoever! (Ephesians 2:9; Romans 4:2).
For God neither gives to nor shares his glory with another! (Isaiah 48:5, Isaiah 42:8).

Having been to the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-8) and given understanding of its importance and necessity, Paul is most emphatic that salvation and justification are apart from faith's works (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:2; Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20-21; Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11), but which necessary obedience, however, leads to righteousness (Romans 6:16) leading to holiness (Romans 6:19) of sanctification, which is God's will for the believer (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

Even if Paul uses "His people" the way you two suggest,
doesn't mean it's used the same way in the Gospels.

Nor does it meant it is not.
NT apostolic teaching is that it is used the same way in the gospels.

 

[zoidar]

It refers to those who believe in him. . .in the NT none who reject him can be called his people.
Now that the Messiah has been revealed, all mankind is on the same footing. . .his people are only those who believe in him. Which is no different than in the OT.
Only those who believed in the Promise (Jesus Christ) were made righteous, as it was with Abraham (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3). Saving righteousness (justification) is only by faith in Jesus Christ, apart from faith's works (Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28).

And that's because "Salvation is the Lord's!" (Revelation 7:10, Revelation 19:1),
his and his alone! (Revelation 4:11, Revelation 7:12)
Man cannot say he contributed anything. . .whatsoever! (Ephesians 2:9; Romans 4:2).
For God neither gives to nor shares his glory with another! (Isaiah 48:5, Isaiah 42:8).

Having been to the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-8) and given understanding of its importance and necessity, Paul is most emphatic that salvation and justification are apart from faith's works (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:2; Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20-21; Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11), but which necessary obedience, however, leads to righteousness (Romans 6:16) leading to holiness (Romans 6:19) of sanctification, which is God's will for the believer (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

Nor does it meant it is not.
NT apostolic teaching is that it is used the same way in the gospels.

I will say first that there's much in your post where we are basically on the same page, even you might not believe that. But I jump to where I have a problem.

his people are only those who believe in him. Which is no different than in the OT.

In the OT God chose the nation of Israel to be His people.

For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. “The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but because the Lord loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the Lord brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
— Deuteronomy 7:6-8

his people are only those who believe in him. Which is no different than in the OT.


NT apostolic teaching is that it is used the same way in the gospels.

Why then are Luke 2:32, Matthew 2:6 and John 1:11 not refering to believers, but to Israel as a people?

For my eyes have seen Your salvation,
Which You have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
A Light of revelation to the Gentiles,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”
— Luke 2:30-32

‘And you, Bethlehem, land of Judah,
Are by no means least among the leaders of Judah;
For out of you shall come forth a Ruler
Who will shepherd My people Israel.’”
— Matthew 2:6

There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
— John 1:9-11

 

[Clare73]

I will say first that there's much in your post where we are basically on the same page, even you might not believe that.

Yeah, I think I realized that.

But I jump to where I have a problem.

In the OT God chose the nation of Israel to be His people.

Why then are Luke 2:32, Matthew 2:6 and John 1:11
not refering to believers, but to Israel as a people?

Where the text specifically states it as Israel, it is referring to OT Israel, including those still alive in the NT.

But in the OT, "his people" was not about salvation through faith in the Promise (Jesus Christ).
It was only about natural birth.

In the NT order (Hebrews 9:10), "his people" is about salvation through faith in Jesus Christ (the Promise).
It is only about spiritual re-birth, not about natural birth.

God's OT people and God's NT people are not the same thing--one is by natural birth and the other is by spiritual re-birth only.

Holy means "set apart," as Israel was set apart from the other nations.

 

[Brightfame52]

jlb777

The condition for salvation is to believe.

This is salvation by works, has nothing to do with Matt 1:21

 

[zoidar]

Yeah, I think I realized that.
Where the text specifically states it as Israel, it is referring to OT Israel, including those still alive in the NT.

But in the OT, "his people" was not about salvation through faith in the Promise (Jesus Christ).
It was only about natural birth.

In the NT order (Hebrews 9:10), "his people" is about salvation through faith in Jesus Christ (the Promise).
It is only about spiritual re-birth, not about natural birth.

God's OT people and God's NT people are not the same thing--one is by natural birth and the other is by spiritual re-birth only.

Holy means "set apart," as Israel was set apart from the other nations.

She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
— Matthew 1:21

The point here is not that Jesus will save all believers. The point is that salvation has come through the Messiah to His people of Israel, so they can be saved if they receive the salvation.

So I believe "His people" here refers to the "OT Israel", not "His children" that are His by faith.

 

[Clare73]

She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
— Matthew 1:21
The point here is not that Jesus will save all believers. The point is that salvation has come through the Messiah to His people of Israel, so they can be saved if they receive the salvation.
So I believe "His people" here refers to the "OT Israel", not "His children" that are His by faith.

But it has effectively come only to OT Israel who believes, not effectively to all Israel.
Could it not mean both OT and NT people who believe in Jesus Christ?

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus declares the success of His Death !

The Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ saves all them He died for. Lets look at Jn 12:31-32

31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.8

Here in this passage, Jesus Christ was declaring that by means of His Death, that He would save men and Women throughout the world. These are all them that the Angel promised that He would save from their sins in Matt 1:21.

The drawing of them unto Him is the actual Saving of them.

 

[Brightfame52]

zodiar

The point here is not that Jesus will save all believers. The point is that salvation has come through the Messiah to His people of Israel, so they can be saved if they receive the salvation.

This is conditionalism, has nothing to do with Matt 1:21. Matt 1:21 isnt a conditional promise !

 

[zoidar]

Could it not mean both OT and NT people who believe in Jesus Christ?

Yes, it could. But is it? That is the question.

 

[zoidar]

zodiar



This is conditionalism, has nothing to do with Matt 1:21. Matt 1:21 isnt a conditional promise !

I think it more of a declaration than a promise.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, it could. But is it? That is the question.

Yes, it could. But is it? That is the question.

It does everywhere else in the NT.

 

[zoidar]

It does everywhere else in the NT.

Well ... no!

But if we just focus on the Gospels, all other places where "His, My, Your people or His own" are mentioned it's the people of Israel, and not Gentile and Jewish believers.

 

[Brightfame52]

I think it more of a declaration than a promise.

In fact its both. God declares His Promises all throughout scripture. What His declared Promise in Matt 1:21 ?

 

[BBAS 64]

His people were given to Him, by the Father

Joh 17:6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.

 

[Brightfame52]

His people were given to Him, by the Father

Joh 17:6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.

Yes and that before the foundation of the world ! Eph 1:4

 

[Clare73]

Well ... no!

But if we just focus on the Gospels, all other places where "His, My, Your people or His own" are mentioned it's the people of Israel, and not Gentile and Jewish believers.

That would be your Old Covenant interpretation.

The gospels contain the same revelation as the epistles.

"My people" by natural birth of the Old Covenant is a foreshadow of "my people" by spiritual rebirth in the New Covenant.