Mathematicians PROVE evolution IMPOSSIBLE.

[John Hyperspace]

 

[Neogaia777]

We have to be able to know more about the possibility of biogenesis or not first, before we can really know anything, as John Hyperspace pointed out to me in another thread...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

We have to be able to know more about the possibility of biogenesis or not first, before we can really know anything, as John Hyperspace pointed out to me in another thread...

God Bless!

Life from non-life...? Relatively Common or extremely rare...?

It hinges on that... Either way we either were created by a much, much higher lifeform or ("Q like" to put it in Star Trek terms) entity(s), and we are very, very rare... Or this world was seeded by more advanced life... Or, we and life like, us is pretty common, and you still then run into the very likely possibility, then, of a much, much higher lifeform or ("Q like" to put it in Star Trek terms) entity(s) what most would call "God" or "gods" or God and angels...

God Bless!

 

[Anguspure]

Number of planets in the universe 1/10 ^ 50

Odd's of evolution happenning. 1/10 ^ 2 825 000

Any number greater than about 10^100 falls into the realm of fantastical in that it is not possible to represent this number in the physical world because it is more than the total number of events that have occured since the universe began to exist.
The chances of the sentence I have just written (if it was written on paper and we discounted all of the preceding events leading to the creation of the sentence itself) with all of its functional coherence arising probably exceeds this number alone.
So these odds are such that they represent something that could not have happened even once if the time frame available for life to have occurred by chance was many trillions of years.
So accidental invention is indeed fantastically improbable (as an understatement) and therefore physically impossible.

 

[Anguspure]

We have to be able to know more about the possibility of biogenesis or not first, before we can really know anything, as John Hyperspace pointed out to me in another thread...

God Bless!

And accidental biogenesis is an utter blithering absurdity as is the accidental invention of anything new and useful. The only thing that happens by accident is accidents ...

woops!

 

[Anguspure]

Do you agree that low probability events do happen or not?

What degree of probability are you referring to and with what frequency?

 

[Neogaia777]

Any number greater than about 10^100 falls into the realm of fantastical in that it is not possible to represent this number in the physical world because it is more than the total number of events that have occured since the universe began to exist.
The chances of the sentence I have just written (if it was written on paper and we discounted all of the preceding events leading to the creation of the sentence itself) with all of its functional coherence arising probably exceeds this number alone.
So these odds are such that they represent something that could not have happened even once if the time frame available for life to have occurred by chance was many trillions of years.
So accidental invention is indeed fantastically improbable (as an understatement) and therefore physically impossible.

So, you believe life was seeded here and evolved from there?, or we were and all of this was spontaneously created by "Q" like beings or God or gods, or God and angels who can do such? If so, why the apparent evidence or deception that it seems to have evolved from being seeded...?

God Bless!

 

[Anguspure]

I am serious too. The video is lying. I'm not sure what dealing with God has to do with that fact. Do you think I'd be more godly if I ignored the falsehoods? Take a really simple one: the claim that any probability less than 1/10^50 is so small that an event with that probability will never occur. If you pick up a deck of 52 cards and shuffle it, the probability that you'll get any particular arrangement of cards is well over a quadrillion times smaller than that number -- and yet such an event happens every time you shuffle a deck.

But what does it do? What does it mean? Of course any combination of cards can appear, and the probability that this particular combination will appear is very low. But its all meaningless, because of all the possible combinations of card only one is the winning hand.
And this consideration is a completely different thing.

It may be possible that the correct order of 52 cards is dealt within a given time frame, but only if the cards are dealt at a high enough frequency.

In this universe we are limited to a time frame of a mere 13.6 billion years and a frequency determined by Planck time. Deal away mate and good luck to you, but if I find you claiming that this happened more than 2 or 3 times during this time frame having dealt the cards at this frequency, I will call you a cheat.

In biogenisis the deck of cards is exceedingly bigger, the time frame is much smaller and the frequency is a whole lot less.

I think somebody has been up to something.

 

[Anguspure]

So, you believe life was seeded here and evolved from there?, or we were and all of this was spontaneously created by "Q" like beings or God or gods, or God and angels who can do such? If so, why the apparent evidence or deception that it seems to have evolved from being seeded...?

God Bless!

I consider that the fundamental nature of reality is a mind, a creative mind.
I would give this Mind the Title of "God".
I believe that this is the God described by Abraham, Jacob and Moses.

 

[Neogaia777]

I consider that the fundamental nature of reality is a mind, a creative mind.
I would give this Mind the Title of "God".
I believe that this is the God described by Abraham, Jacob and Moses.

What do you mean when you say "the fundamental nature of reality is a mind, a creative mind." can you expound more on, and explain what you "mean" there please...? I'd really like to know...

God Bless!

 

[mcarmichael]

Say suppose you want each arrangement to be 5 cards, the possible no. of arrangements is 52! / (52 - 5)! = 311,875,200
So the probability of each arrangement will be 1/311875200.

Will each arrangement occur very frequently ? No, each will occur only once every 311875200 trials on average, in the long run, believe me. Not more than that, for most of them.

Source?

 

[4x4toy]

You could say there's a chance that a team of 10yr old football players could beat the New England Patriots in a football game but it ain't never gonna happen ..

 

[Anguspure]

What do you mean when you say "the fundamental nature of reality is a mind, a creative mind." can you expound more on, and explain what you "mean" there please...? I'd really like to know...

God Bless!

I'll see if I can expound a bit:

Fundamental means: serving as, or being an essential part of, a foundation or basis; basic; underlying:fundamental principles; the fundamental structure.

What I am maintaining is that mind itself is the fundamental nature of reality as opposed to things (mindless things) being the fundamental nature of reality.

What I am referring to here is the uncaused cause that is the necessary origin of all things that we call "the universe" or "the world" (meaning all possible worlds).

It is considered that the uncaused cause is a mind (and not 42 ) because the only way that a thing which exists by the necessity of its own nature can change is if it chooses to change.

This is an act of which is the hallmark of a mind, or a person, if you will.

That anything else exists apart from this being, is because it is able to bring about change according to its own will and this change is something that we might recognise as creation, a lowered state of entropy.

In respect of this thread, I consider and agree that life in the universe, and the many previous and subsequent developments on the same theme, is evidence of a lowered state of entropy (among a number of similar observations of low entropic state), that falls well beyond the probabilistic resources of any non-mind principle such as physical, metaphysical or mathematical laws, and therefore is more directly attributable to a fundamental reality (or law), that is the nature of reality itself, which is a Mind.

 

[Neogaia777]

I'll see if I can expound a bit:

Fundamental means: serving as, or being an essential part of, a foundation or basis; basic; underlying:fundamental principles; the fundamental structure.

What I am maintaining is that mind itself is the fundamental nature of reality as opposed to things (mindless things) being the fundamental nature of reality.

What I am referring to here is the uncaused cause that is the necessary origin of all things that we call "the universe" or "the world" (meaning all possible worlds).

It is considered that the uncaused cause is a mind (and not 42 ) because the only way that a thing which exists by the necessity of its own nature can change is if it chooses to change.

This is an act of which is the hallmark of a mind, or a person, if you will.

That anything else exists apart from this being, is because it is able to bring about change according to its own will and this change is something that we might recognise as creation, a lowered state of entropy.

In respect of this thread, I consider and agree that life in the universe, and the many previous and subsequent developments on the same theme, is evidence of a lowered state of entropy (among a number of similar observations of low entropic state), that falls well beyond the probabilistic resources of any non-mind principle such as physical, metaphysical or mathematical laws, and therefore is more directly attributable to a fundamental reality (or law), that is the nature of reality itself, which is a Mind.

I can pretty much agree with that, thanks for explaining further...

But, we must keep in mind, that it is not only a "mind" but a "heart" as well, with feelings and emotions like us, but not like us... Many slip, trip, and fall in the effort of trying to conceive this part of God...

But, it cannot, and should not be overlooked...

God Bless!

 

[Tomm]

Source?

The laws of probability.

The real meaning of Probability is to be understood as the frequency rate in the long run. In the long run, not at a particular instance.

Yes, in the long run.

So a low probability event, let's say its probability = 0.0001, can certainly occur, but only once every 10000 trials on average.
In the long run, its frequency should be 1 over 10000 trials, 2 over 20000 trials, etc.

Imagine a factory that works this way, nothing useful would be produced.

 

[Anguspure]

Say suppose you want each arrangement to be 5 cards, the possible no. of arrangements is 52! / (52 - 5)! = 311,875,200
So the probability of each arrangement will be 1/311875200.

Will each arrangement occur very frequently ? No, each will occur only once every 311875200 trials on average, in the long run, believe me. Not more than that, for most of them.

So what might be the chances of me winning the game if in order to win I have to take a 100 million decks of 20 cards and need them to be ordered in about 2 million precisely different ways (according to how they will function in my self replicating house of cards), and then according to the rules of the game they have to be stacked by throwing them up in the air so that they fall into the shape of a pentagram?
Alphabet soup anyone? I would love to read War and Peace today just hope the pot keeps on bubbling.

 

[Anguspure]

The laws of probability.

The real meaning of Probability is to be understood as the frequency rate in the long run. In the long run, not at a particular instance.

Yes, in the long run.

So a low probability event, let's say its probability = 0.0001, can certainly occur, but only once every 10000 trials on average.
In the long run, its frequency should be 1 over 10000 trials, 2 over 20000 trials, etc.

Imagine a factory that works this way, nothing useful would be produced.

Long run? How long do you want already?

 

[mcarmichael]

The laws of probability.

The real meaning of Probability is to be understood as the frequency rate in the long run. In the long run, not at a particular instance.

Yes, in the long run.

So a low probability event, let's say its probability = 0.0001, can certainly occur, but only once every 10000 trials on average.
In the long run, its frequency should be 1 over 10000 trials, 2 over 20000 trials, etc.

Imagine a factory that works this way, nothing useful would be produced.

No, but you suggested that some things might happen more frequently than projected.

 

[Neogaia777]

The real question is and still remains, what is the actual odds and possibility of life from non-life, and it could be as improbable as Anguspure says, and we could be the only ones... Or, it also could very well be that the possibility of life coming from non-life is fairly common...

We just don't know right now, and that is the problem and what it hinges on...? But, I believe either way you go, you run into "God" in either case, by the numbers of either...

God Bless!

 

[Anguspure]

I can pretty much agree with that, thanks for explaining further...

But, we must keep in mind, that it is not only a "mind" but a "heart" as well, with feelings and emotions like us, but not like us... Many slip, trip, and fall in the effort of trying to conceive this part of God...

But, it cannot, and should not be overlooked...

God Bless!

Perhaps for another thread, but I am of the opinion that emotion is a characteristic of the physical person.

So given that God is also a Man and this Man was with God, and was God, and He was with God in the beginning, and through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made; I would agree with you.

But in so far as I am talking about a philosophical Creator God, and not yet encroaching on the possibility of this Creator also being a Man, I think it is best to leave the emotions out of the equation.