Masturbation

[Dave-W]

I can't send messages yet because I don't have enough liked posts

Hey - I have liked all your posts.

So make a few more, already!
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[RaymondG]

Repeated because it needs to be.

Repeated or deleted? God is spirit. And they that walk after the spirit no longer mind the things of the flesh.
" Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;"

 

[RaymondG]

It would be folly to believe we are pleasing anyone but ourselves when indulging in this topic. Time to separate flesh from spirit.....as they cannot be mixed.

 

[Dave-W]

too many rules..... either it is ok or it isnt.

The truth shouldnt have so many exceptions.....either it is ok or it isnt.......

God is not that linear or black and white. Read thru pauls letters. There are things he says are ok at their heart but should not be done if it will stumble someone (i.e. trip them up into sin)

..there is no way to control or monitor someone elses thoughts.

Why would you want to control someone other than yourself?
God never calls anyone to do that in any area of life.

 

[Dave-W]

Repeated or deleted? God is spirit. And they that walk after the spirit no longer mind the things of the flesh.
" Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;"

Flesh in that context refers to the fallen nature, NOT the physical body.

 

[Dave-W]

It would be folly to believe we are pleasing anyone but ourselves when indulging in this topic. Time to separate flesh from spirit.....as they cannot be mixed.

Do you ever eat anything just because you like the taste?
Do you ever attend (or participate in) a sporting event because you enjoy it?

If you said "yes" to either question, you are pleasing no one but yourself.

 

[RaymondG]

God is not that linear or black and white. Read thru pauls letters. There are things he says are ok at their heart but should not be done if it will stumble someone (i.e. trip them up into sin)

I agree, God is not linear or non-linear.....God is......

In your example, that action is this not wrong......it is ok..... It is kindness for your neighbor that causes you to not do it in their presence.......this doesnt make it wrong to do.

Why would you want to control someone other than yourself?
God never calls anyone to do that in any area of life.

I dont desire to.....and since I cant.....I would not say something is ok for them if I knew there were exceptions beyond my control.

 

[RaymondG]

Flesh in that context refers to the fallen nature, NOT the physical body.

WE can re interpret every verse to match what we believe and any argument. The point is, I do not believe we should link this topic to salvation or any form of worship or reverence etc....

 

[Dave-W]

The point is, I do not believe we should link this topic to salvation or any form of worship or reverence etc....

i agree on that.

But so many link it in the way that if you do this (some say if you feel the urge to do this) you are not or cannot be saved. God hates you and condemns you for it.

That is just pure idiocy.

 

[RaymondG]

Do you ever eat anything just because you like the taste?
Do you ever attend (or participate in) a sporting event because you enjoy it?

Yes, the difference is, I dont pretend that I am doing it for the Lord. And I dont encourage others to do it by saying that the Lord would be pleased or it is some gift from Him

If you said "yes" to either question, you are pleasing no one but yourself.

You've forgotten who I Am. I only speak to and about myself, and am first partakers of my words......I only hope that those who would hear it.......hear as well.

 

[RaymondG]

But so many link it in the way that if you do this (some say if you feel the urge to do this) you are not or cannot be saved. God hates you and condemns you for it.

Yes, I feel that exclamations to stop this, to please God, and to start doing it, to please God, are equally unwise notions.

"7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

 

[Dave-W]

Yes, the difference is, I dont pretend that I am doing it for the Lord.

I think you misunderstand. Can you give thanks for a tasty meal or your team winning? Did not Paul instruct us to do this?

Ephesians 5:20
always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;​

What ever you enjoy, no matter what it is, you should be able to give God thanks for your enjoyment of it. That includes masturbation.

 

[RaymondG]

I think you misunderstand. Can you give thanks for a tasty meal or your team winning? Did not Paul instruct us to do this?

Ephesians 5:20
always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;​

What ever you enjoy, no matter what it is, you should be able to give God thanks for your enjoyment of it. That includes masturbation.

Indeed........in all things give thanks.

I only commented because one, who was telling everyone this was ok, was now giving acceptable things to think about while partaking....as if thoughts outside of the ones stated, would make it now wrong.....in the eyes of God.

I prefer either hot or cold.....

 

[Dave-W]

I only commented because one, who was telling everyone this was ok, was now giving acceptable things to think about while partaking....as if thoughts outside of the ones stated, would make it now wrong.....in the eyes of God.

There are many things under the New Covenant that are either good or bad depending on the thoughts and attitudes involved in doing it.

Indeed, Paul tells us that ANYTHING (even if it is a direct obedience) is sinful if not done in faith.

Romans 14:23
But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.​

And that is talking about eating. Thoughts DO matter.

 

[RaymondG]

There are many things under the New Covenant that are either good or bad depending on the thoughts and attitudes involved in doing it.

Indeed, Paul tells us that ANYTHING (even if it is a direct obedience) is sinful if not done in faith.

Romans 14:23
But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.​

And that is talking about eating. Thoughts DO matter.

God is the same Yesterday and forever......
There was a time when there was no thought of good and bad. It was the serpent that convinced us....and is convincing us....that this knowledge makes us like gods.

When we have mustard seed faith, there will be nothing done, "not in faith" And no mountain that cannot be moved....

 

[RaymondG]

There are many things under the New Covenant that are either good or bad depending on the thoughts and attitudes involved in doing it.

If we believe this.....then there should be no one saying that this is acceptable for anyone....and we know not their heart or attitude.

 

[Dave-W]

If we believe this.....then there should be no one saying that this is acceptable for anyone....and we know not their heart or attitude.

Why are you trying to judge "anyone?" Much of what you are saying is about imposing your ideas on someone else.

there should be no one saying that this is acceptable for anyone

I would not say something is ok for them if I knew there were exceptions beyond my control.

 

[RaymondG]

Why are you trying to judge "anyone?" Much of what you are saying is about imposing your ideas on someone else.

Please point out which statements sounded like Judgement to you.....I could not see it in the quotes you quoted......or maybe we have a different view of Judgment.

 

[Dave-W]

.or maybe we have a different view of Judgment.

That is probably it.

 

[tampasteve]

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