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Masturbation

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John-Phillip

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Riiight. Just like shooting up once in a while is no big thing eh? Read some of the threads here! People have lost jobs, homes, families and almost everything to this addiction!

....Isn't there a parallel with alcohol use/abuse? Some people believe that alcohol is inherently evil and sinful...somepeople can drink it moderately, some people's lives are ruined by alcoholism. It seems a better metaphor than heroin addiction anyway. But actually probably eating is a better metaphor because the body needs to eat and we crave food when we are not able to get any. I think complete sexual abstinance is something that is given as a gift. Some are able to deny themselves utterly. For those without theat gift its isn't perhaps a good idea to try(?). In response to...
 
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John-Phillip

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....In response to this.....
Masturbation isn't mentioned specifically in the Bible, but if you read closely and reason, you can conclude that God considers it unclean. Read Leviticus 15:16, 17. God says there in the KJV: "And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even." Now, would God like us to make it a practice of that which makes us unclean?.
...Firstly, I apologise for sounding harsh if I did! I was just exasperated by this kind of viewpoint and couldn't help expressing that.

Is not the quote above something to do with being ritually 'clean' according to OT laws?

It seems to me that on one extreme are people who are trapped in a cycle of masturbating many times a day and who can't stop. There is clearly a problem here because they are enslaved to it.

The other extreme is to feel that the act itself is sinful and you must abstain. What then happens (in my case it used to anyway) is that I end up coping for a week or so then I'd have a big crash involving pornography and other stuff also. Now I just 'manage my sexuality' and I don't let it manage me! I sincerely feel that God has blessed this approach. I respect others who reject that idea, but I do challenge anyone who claims to have the right to preach one view since it isn't clealy stated in the Bible (unlike lust, adultery, getting drunk etc).
 
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Ursie

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There are a few Scripture passages that are helpful in looking at this addiction. I understand what you are going through, I've been there myself. I know exactly what you mean when you say that feel terrible after you've masturbated. I have come to believe that masturbation can be a tool that Satan uses to draw people in, to meet a felt need, and then the accusations fly. this is especially difficult if your desire is to please God alone and you find yourself falling into sin. I will not invite the argument and say that masturbation is a sin for everyone, but it sounds like, for the OP, it is clearly a sin. His heart is broken when he engages and so now he desires to abstain. Let's help him, encourage him and build him up toward that end.

1 Thessalonians 5:4-11
4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

In this passage, Paul speaks of the need for self control, especially in times of darkness. I would encourage getting a face-to-face accountability partner that will pray with you, encourage you and ask you if you are engaging in masturbation. I have found that to be a huge help. I also would make sure that when the tempation hit you, you could contact that person right then and ask for prayer. This is territory that Satan wants to take from you and you need partnered, voiced prayer to overcome IMO.

Now, look at this passage from 1 Corinthians 9:25-10:13


25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. 1 Corinthians 10

Warnings From Israel's History

1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.

6Now these things occurred as examples[c] to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."[d] 8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9We should not test the Lord, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel. 11These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

We will experience temptation, but we are called to bring our physical self under submission, not giving in to it's lusts. It sounds to me like you already know that this is so, but needed a little biblical confirmation. If there is a lust of the flesh that controls us, then we are it's slaves. We are to be the slaves of no one save Christ.

Finally, have a look at Galatians 5:18-25. The KJV has words that are less vague than some of the modern translations. Notice uncleaness, which was mentioned earlier as well as fornication. I know that you're not physically fornicating, but if you're like me, the imaginations of your mind while you are masturbating are fornication. That is sin, as Jesus said to the men that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has commited adultry.

18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

I've forgotten what your name was OP, but I want to say that I applaud your efforts. It is clear that you are seeking God with all of your heart. He will reward you. This may be a very tough battle, but when you win, you will have won some very precious territory from the hand of Satan. You will be able to build up others with the strength you have gained from the fight and you will have wisdom that not everyone has. Stand firm then friend!
 
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John-Phillip

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I wouldn't want to be seen argung against scripture -I would however say that a very strict interpretation isn't necessarily helpful. The following is a bit risque so avert your eyes moderators!!! (joking of course) Here is my own personal solution which I have peace with. If it can be accepted that masturbation is not a sin necessarily, within clear limits but that it can become a sin when there are sinful thoughts associated...is there not a case for trying to get rid of one but not the other? I often find that breaking the task into small parts makes it easier. Can God accept that human beings can give themsleves sexual pleasure without sinning? Can the act itself be an erotically stimulating one without you having to let your mind go where it shouldn't? I hope I really am not making unhelpful statements. I personally do not fantasise. I used to avoid Mb until I couldn't cope any more then either fell into sin (porn etc) or would just find a 'quick release'. I hated that. Is it not better to try to accept that we are sexual beings and to have guilt free pleasure within strict limits? Now I touch between 2 and 4 times a week. I never do on Wed and Fri since those are days of special prayer for me. On other days I do when i feel the need. I take my time and so on in a relaxing environment (as much as is possible). This has helped me to avoid crashing into using porn and other stuff.....Once again, if what I have written offends your beliefs about God forgive me but I don't see the point in loading people with a burden they can't carry. I have never been able to carry it anyway. I believe we should seek practical helpful solutions to lifes problems and share them prayerful , not just fire of reams of scripture at people.
 
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Marie D

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When I do touch it is almost impossible to keep my thoughts clean and pure for the entire time. This has just been a never ending catch 22 for me and I am at my wits' end.

The act of self abuse is inherently not 'clean and pure'. On the contrary, it releases hormones and emotions that should be reserved for your future wife. By committing the physical sin you are allowing the emotional one into your life. The solution is to lay off this act, and pray to God for the strength to see you through until you are ready to marry.
 
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Johnnz

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Self abuse is inherently evil. But we cannot accept a circular argument here. If masturbation is not inherently evil then it isn't self abuse.

Also self abuse is very wrong. But if self abuse means seeing as evil something that isn't, such as our natural human sexuality, then that negative viewpoint could be seen as self abuse too. It is a denial of something created by God

John
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John-Phillip

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The act of self abuse is inherently not 'clean and pure'. On the contrary, it releases hormones and emotions that should be reserved for your future wife. By committing the physical sin you are allowing the emotional one into your life. The solution is to lay off this act, and pray to God for the strength to see you through until you are ready to marry.

...And what do you do when you manage to be 'pure' for 10 days then you fall (heavily) and then you repent, do another ten days, fall again and so on a cycle that can go for years and you always feel like a failure. Your answer is surely: 'its your problem pal not mine...I'm just here to tell you what is a sin and what isn't and you shouldnt sin and you need to pray more'. Less than useless in my opinion, no offence.
 
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the.Sheepdog

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I am closing this thread permanently . Recovery is not a place to debate about things that are clearly already in CF main rules or the Recovery guidelines. The rules are seen here and here.

If you want to discuss this issue please be mindful of the fact that this is recovery and people here suffer thru this issue. Failure to conform will mean posts will disappear and staff action may follow.

I will protect those here who suffer. Be warned.


Mod hat off
 
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the.Sheepdog

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It has been brought to me that some of you are able to post on this subject without breaking CF ruules or causing others trigger issues. This thread is dead, but you can start another. Please keep in mind that CF rules and Recovery Rules trump whatever you individually decide is right about the subject.

Thank you
 
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