masturbation

[ivanisavich]

No. Going to a strip club is wrong. Masterbating is not.

Well if you're not lusting after the women there why would it be wrong? So far that's your logic when it comes to masturbation.....if you don't lust it isn't wrong.

Riddle me that!

 

[u2bonoman]

Well if you're not lusting after the women there why would it be wrong? So far that's your logic when it comes to masturbation.....if you don't lust it isn't wrong.

Riddle me that!

I don't see anything wrong with that logic. A sin is only a sin when you sin. Riddle me THAT.

In fact, I'll jump out on a limb here and say GO to a strip club. Great place to show your testimony.

Keep in mind, I'm only stating my opinion. Unless you can absolutely 100% prove that touching yourself is a sin, or TEMPTS you to sin, the debate is still on. Because for me, I'm not tempted, YET I touch...

 

[Fatolia]

You guys might want to ask God to help you separate the association you have of masturbation from lustful thoughts.

 

[ivanisavich]

I don't see anything wrong with that logic. A sin is only a sin when you sin. Riddle me THAT.

Yes...but as Christians we're also called to flee from temptations and unrighteousness. Certainly if you're not sinning, you're not sinning! ....but it's not good practice to place yourself in a fragile situation like what we're talking about, because you're setting yourself up for a fall.

There's nothing wrong with riding a bike without a helmet....but the risk of splitting your head open if you crash is much higher!

That being said....I agree that there doesn't seem to be anything to back up the idea that masturbation without lustful thoughts is wrong in the Bible.....but being a guy and knowing the way us men are wired....I don't buy the idea that a guy can touch over the course of his single life without having any impure thoughts. ....and if you do have any (even if they only show up on some occasions during the act and not all)....then you still shouldn't be masturbating!

 

[ivanisavich]

Overall....I just find that the "masturbation without lust" theory is a little too idealistic.

 

[Fatolia]

Yes...but as Christians we're also called to flee from temptations and unrighteousness. Certainly if you're not sinning, you're not sinning! ....but it's not good practice to place yourself in a fragile situation like what we're talking about, because you're setting yourself up for a fall.

There's nothing wrong with riding a bike without a helmet....but the risk of splitting your head open if you crash is much higher!

That being said....I agree that there doesn't seem to be anything to back up the idea that masturbation without lustful thoughts is wrong in the Bible.....but being a guy and knowing the way us men are wired....I don't buy the idea that a guy can touch over the course of his single life without having any impure thoughts. ....and if you do have any (even if they only show up on some occasions during the act and not all)....then you still shouldn't be masturbating!

You do have a point there. But what do you do about those physical urges that build up after a week...heck three days...that cause you to have dark thoughts after EVERYTHING...including 80 year old ladies?

 

[ivanisavich]

You do have a point there. But what do you do about those physical urges that build up after a week...heck three days...that cause you to have dark thoughts after EVERYTHING...including 80 year old ladies?

Well you'd be surprised man. I'm no exception when it comes to the literal withdrawel I went through....it was intense. But, just as a smoker will never be able to quit smoking if he continually gives into his cravings....the same is true for somenone who deals with this particular problem. You've simply got to deny yourself the pleasure of partaking in any self-satisfying lustful thoughts or actions (or anything that could lead you to partake in those 2 things)......once you do that....it'll take around 3 weeks to a month before the cravings will stop....and once they do, let me tell ya...it's a great feeling to know that you've been able to regain control of your entire body!

 

[u2bonoman]

I don't buy the idea that a guy can touch over the course of his single life without having any impure thoughts.

But that really isn't an objective opinion. It seems to mean that because YOU can't control it (because you know us men), then it's wrong for anyone. Which brings me back to my original argument....

 

[ivanisavich]

Well....hehe....that's like saying it's possible for a person to drive blind-folded without getting into an accident. Once again, I don't buy it

As I mentioned before....in a perfect world sure it would be possible, but sadly we don't live in one

 

[u2bonoman]

Well....hehe....that's like saying it's possible for a person to drive blind-folded without getting into an accident. Once again, I don't buy it

As I mentioned before....in a perfect world sure it would be possible, but sadly we don't live in one

I guess I either live in a perfect world or the air in North Carolina is funny, because it works out fine for me.

 

[ivanisavich]

Hehe...well then I'm happy for ya!

Sadly for the 99.9% of us left, it doesn't hehe

 

[Hope_0004]

[/size]

Well cmon...you know what I mean

Plus...not my words....they're the Bible's! hehe

The Bible most certainly does not say that you have to get married to experience [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. If you equate an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] with lust, then I suppose you might be right... but I'm not at all on board with that as a definition of lust. Lust involves much, much more, and I really don't consider a little harmless fantasy to be sinful.

Go ahead, tear me apart. It really doesn't matter, does it, because it seems like all of these men talk about how horrible masturbation is and then admit that they "fall" every few weeks or so. If we were talking to drug users who "fell" back into using heroine every few weeks, all would be appalled. But we're not. Why? Because it's not that big of a deal.

In my opinion, I'd much rather deal with a male coworker who had masturbated as opposed to one so full of sexual energy he couldn't sit still any day.

 

[ivanisavich]

The Bible most certainly does not say that you have to get married to experience [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

HUH??? Lol! That's not what I said at all!!!!

I was referring to Paul's statements that it's better to get married than to burn with lust. That's all

 

[ivanisavich]

Lust involves much, much more, and I really don't consider a little harmless fantasy to be sinful.

No it doesn't....all lust is, is a craving for sex (and/or some kind of sexual activity) with someone you're not married to.

A lustful thought can last 5 seconds or it span over 5 days....but they don't come with clauses or qualifications......if you're fantasizing about someone (who you're not married to) sexually (or innapropriately), then you're lusting.

Go ahead, tear me apart. It really doesn't matter, does it, because it seems like all of these men talk about how horrible masturbation is and then admit that they "fall" every few weeks or so. If we were talking to drug users who "fell" back into using heroine every few weeks, all would be appalled. But we're not. Why? Because it's not that big of a deal.

I'm not hear to tear anyone apart....what I am trying to do is create a case for the idea that masturbation simply isn't a righteous thing to partake in.

Your examples are based on worldy standards. They aren't the least bit biblical since we are called to stray from all unrighteousness. There is no room for "well it was just a quick fantasy" or "it isn't soo bad".

Btw...I don't appreciate the "it doesn't matter because men keep falliing anyways" statement. It's incredibly hard to quit yes, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't! Your remark was very tasteless.

 

[Hope_0004]

If a person lusts then/he should should get married to satisfy those lusts (Paul says that in NT). Once again, in order for a person to manually reach [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] alone, he/she must touch....and the side effect of doing that is lustful thoughts (whether during the actual act, or increased sexual thoughts later as your body tries to get you to repeat that desireable feeling again).

Btw....the question isn't too valid in the first place. I might as well say "What if a person never marries? They are never allowed to have sex?"

For both situations the answer is no...you may not (well....for the original question it's "no" in the context that you shouldn't be stimulating yourself manually.....nocturnal emissions or whatever do not count)

Umm... then what does this mean? Sounds like you can't touch... so the only way you can not be married and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is if you have a wet dream?

I dunno... sounds a little suspect to me how many guys around here say they don't touch... kinda wonder about that.

 

[ivanisavich]

Umm... then what does this mean? Sounds like you can't touch... so the only way you can not be married and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is if you have a wet dream?

I dunno... sounds a little suspect to me how many guys around here say they don't touch... kinda wonder about that.

Lol! Now you've entirely changed the subject. We're not talking about marriage at all in this thread. Masturbation within a marriage wherein the fantasies are about your spouse is completely okay...and is actually quite common (between Christians and non-Christians alike)

And ance again....your crack at the single guys here who say they have quit doing it (yet you still "question" them), is very tasteless.

 

[Hope_0004]

No it doesn't....all lust is, is a craving for sex (and/or some kind of sexual activity) with someone you're not married to.

A lustful thought can last 5 seconds or it span over 5 days....but they don't come with clauses or qualifications......if you're fantasizing about someone (who you're not married to) sexually (or innapropriately), then you're lusting.



I'm not hear to tear anyone apart....what I am trying to do is create a case for the idea that masturbation simply isn't a righteous thing to partake in.

Your examples are based on worldy standards. They aren't the least bit biblical since we are called to stray from all unrighteousness. There is no room for "well it was just a quick fantasy" or "it isn't soo bad".

Btw...I don't appreciate the "it doesn't matter because men keep falliing anyways" statement. It's incredibly hard to quit yes, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't! Your remark was very tasteless.

There are no biblical examples of masturbation, unless you're going to bring up Onan, which I don't believe is intended to be instruction on masturbation at all.

I don't think it's tasteless to say that men keep falling... that's all some people do - keep talking about how bad masturbation is, and how they do it all the time. It's true. I can direct you to a hundred threads I bet. And it doesn't matter what I say, because I'm not going to help any of them. So I don't think that's tasteless.

As for the other comment, I also believe that to be true - I do not believe that some of these people who say they never touch are telling the truth. I do not believe it. That's just my opinion.

 

[holo]

...well there's no real "test" to see if someone "has the holy spirit"....that's why it's extremely dangerous to rely only on your own emotions (not physical danger of course...but you're putting your good judgement at risk). Hence the reason we were given the Bible, which we can use as our objective moral standard

But the bible itself says that it's the Spirit that is to guide us. I've exxperienced my emotions and conscience tell me one thing, while the Spirit was telling me another. The Spirit was right.

There's nothing magical about it. You learn to distinguish the voice of the Spirit as you spend time, live your life, walk you walk.

In my opinion, I'd much rather deal with a male coworker who had masturbated as opposed to one so full of sexual energy he couldn't sit still any day.

There's an opening at my job. I'll put in a good word for you.

But if I'm being hyper one day, I'd rather you don't ask "did you forget to touch this morning or something?"

 

[ivanisavich]

I've exxperienced my emotions and conscience tell me one thing, while the Spirit was telling me another. The Spirit was right.

I agree...but throughout history we've also seen hundreds of people do outrageous things based on "what the spirit told them"....so that's why I was just saying that we must also match up "what the spirit says" to what the Bible says....so we know that we're not just imagining things.

That being said....I also agree in the fact that as you grow in your walk you will become more and more in-tuned to what "the Spirit says".....after a while your Biblical knowledge should be broad enough that you'll be able to tell right away if it's "the Spirit", or just your own feelings/emotions

 

[ivanisavich]

There are no biblical examples of masturbation, unless you're going to bring up Onan, which I don't believe is intended to be instruction on masturbation at all.

I was speaking about lust in the quote you posted, not masturbation (although the two are still linked)

I don't think it's tasteless to say that men keep falling

Well in the way you worded it it certainly was! Many men battle this problem daily and all you could say was "meh...whatever...men fall"....that could easily come off to some as being very offensive, since as a Christian sister you should be supporting your fellow brothers in their daily struggles and battles (just as us men should be supporting you ladies). All I was saying was that your careless attitude is not appreciated.

I do not believe that some of these people who say they never touch are telling the truth. I do not believe it. That's just my opinion.

Luckily, for those of us who have overcome the problem, our triumph over sin in this area of our lives is not based on your opinion!