Masturbation... is it wrong?

[Danhalen]

Ok, my agrument comes out of Genesis 3, where it say God made sex to be shared between a married man and woman. Now, touching yourself is enjoying a part of sex outside of marriage, which is like tell God that the reason he created sex is not Good enough.

How is masturbation telling God that His reason for sex is not good enough?

part two come form Exodus 20 and Mathew (cant remember chapter.)

Masturbation is almost always connected to lust.

How do you know? Can you define lust?

Jesus says that if you lust after a women, it is like comitting adutery with her.

Exodus say that adutery is a sin.

How does masturbation have anything to do with lusting after women?

Now for the people who do not lust when they touch????

How do you know that they do lust when doing it?

Part two, you can firmly state that there is no absolute truth.

No I can't.

 

[]RiSeN[]

If you have never done it and find touching your private parts disturbing... perhaps this isn't the best debate for you? Oh, and don't freak out when you have kids and find your toddler playing with himself. He isn't 'lusting'.

And I'm getting the idea you think masturbation is something new?



trust me. People have been doing it since, well, since people existed.

She has two daughters. Your not teaching her anything about the birds and the bees with your condesending comments.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

She has two daughters. Your not teaching her anything about the birds and the bees with your condesending comments.

LOL, Thats right, and I have had my days of teenage fire between the loins too, thats why I think that site is so horrable.

 

[Aceman1992]

How do you know? Can you define lust?

Lust is the selfish opposite of love. Masturbation involving only a single person is certainly selfish.

How does masturbation have anything to do with lusting after women?

[Mat 5:28] "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (lawtonfogle, is this the verse you were thinking of?) I'll ask you about what images a person is thinking of when they touch?

How do you know that they do lust when doing it?

They're either thinking of someone else (since the other person is not present, then, by definition, it's selfish, hence lust - see above verse in Matthew). If they're not thinking of someone else, but themselves, then that is definitely selfish. If they're not thinking of anyone, then that doesn't fit the profile of people who touch and fits more into obsessive/compulsive disorder (OCD) - not something that you'll find general agreement as being normal.

No I can't.

You just did.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

If you have never done it and find touching your private parts disturbing... perhaps this isn't the best debate for you? Oh, and don't freak out when you have kids and find your toddler playing with himself. He isn't 'lusting'.

I have already had the pleasure, of seeing that thank you, and why would I freak out it's not the toddlers responsability to respect modesty, it is the responsability those who shape the toddlers future like you, and I. Like I said there is already enough casual, lustfull sex out there, what in the world do poeple think the next generation is going to be like?!?! Thats a serious question for me, because my daughters are a part of the next generation.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

There is NO CORRELATION WHATSOEVER between knowledge and promiscuity. In fact, ignorance is far more culpable than anything else. How you can even possible get from:to the whole world going to hell in a handbasket is beyond me.[/font]

Ahh, it is made to sound so sweet and innocent, nice ploy eh? We shape the future of our childrens tommorow, and the more I see the shape changing the more I want to grab my kids and run for the hills. What has everybody, who belives this gone blind!! Is nobody thinking of the future ramifications of these senceless actions, I think not.

And fyi - masturbation classes exist already so you better call your local funeral director soon.

The world is a dicusting place that just keeps getting worse and worse, under the guise that this is exactly how to make the world a better place! Well I don't buy into that, and I hope to God, my kids don't either.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Peter says, somewhere in one of the Corithians, that it is better not to be married for one who can controll their body, but for the one who cannot, it is better for them to be married.

In other words, if you can live without sex, then you do not need it.
but if you need it, you need to get married.

AMEN!

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Watch your step, it's a slippery slope. Now try being logical about your comments.

I think he made his point very well, What is being propsed as casual here was the slippery slope before, well poeple can't seem to help treading the slippery slopes, and soon master it. One day some of the things on that list will be debated by you kids, or grandkids, on whether or not it should be made illigal. hmm, I can what side of the debate your decendents might be on.

 

[]RiSeN[]

You just did.

Danhalen, you gotta admit, that was a sweet nihilistic trap, lol.

 

[DrGather]

I think you know the difference between porn and masturbation.

Yes not a legit Question. Although there are some similarities in what they're intended to do to the looker/jerker.

-Give Pleasure
-Be "Loads of Fun"
-A "way for young people to get used to seeing sex
-A way for yo to screw yourself over.
-A way to satifsy your horny level.
-A way to satifsy your want to feel/see/know what sex looks like
-A way to enhance Your Lust, and have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]

So if they both do very much the same thing, why is one right, and one wrong?

If God gave us this ability that's so pleasuring, why would he be so uptight about us enjoying ourselves?

I think you might wish to reevaluate what you said here. I have the Ability to murder people. If I find it pleasurable, why would I be so uptight about enjoying myself by killing people.

I know you were trying to apply it to masturbation. But you did it in a very touchy manner.

 

[Danhalen]

Lust is the selfish opposite of love. Masturbation involving only a single person is certainly selfish.

How so? What is selfish about a personal act?

[Mat 5:28] "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (lawtonfogle, is this the verse you were thinking of?) I'll ask you about what images a person is thinking of when they touch?

Whoa there, you just said that lust is the selfish opposite of love. Now you're saying that lust is wanting to have sex with a woman outside of wedlock. Then you equivocate want of sex with a woman outside of wedlock to masturbation. I am telling you that sex with another person (or thing) does not necessarily have anything to do with masturbation.

They're either thinking of someone else (since the other person is not present, then, by definition, it's selfish, hence lust - see above verse in Matthew). If they're not thinking of someone else, but themselves, then that is definitely selfish. If they're not thinking of anyone, then that doesn't fit the profile of people who touch and fits more into obsessive/compulsive disorder (OCD) - not something that you'll find general agreement as being normal.

I still don't see how you justify your equivocation here. I will admit that masturbation can be OCD behavior (since any action can), but I fail to see how masturbation is the same as lusting after a woman in the adulterous sense. I also fail to see how masturbation is any more selfish than eating when I'm not hungry.

You just did.

No I didn't. I said that I don't believe in an absolute truth. Then I said that I can't positively state that there is no absolute truth. Please explain to me how I made a positive assertion anywhere in that dialogue.

 

[Danhalen]

I think he made his point very well, What is being propsed as casual here was the slippery slope before,

Tell me how. If I say that masturbation is not a sin, and can be casual, how is that a slippery slope? Do you know what a slippery slope actually is?

well poeple can't seem to help treading the slippery slopes, and soon master it.

It is not clear to me what this means.

One day some of the things on that list will be debated by you kids, or grandkids, on whether or not it should be made illigal.

You are equivocating masturbation with all sorts of crimes, that is what a slippery slope is. It is an equivocation fallacy. How does masturbation lead to learning how to get away with rape?

hmm, I can what side of the debate your decendents might be on.

Nice, real nice. I can't believe you would question the morals of my descendents. It's almost an ad hom attack, but it's not really me that you are attacking. I think you have made the first succesful prophetic ad hominem. Congratulations on the introduction of a new fallacy.

 

[Ave Maria]

Yes, it is wrong. The primary reason being that it requires lust.

 

[immure]

As with all things, motive is very important. You don't need to touch 3 times a day to hold back prostate cancer, you don't need to 'clear your pipes' that often.

I think that it is healthy, and not sinful to touch with these motives. If God had not meant us to look after our bodies in this way then he would not have made us like this.

However, pornography is obviously a sin, aswell as morally wrong, and I think this is why many people associate touching yourself with sin so closely.

As for the Genesis quote, I think it would be a sin to touch if you were married and supposed to impregnate your wife, to touch here was to deny God's Word.

My 2pence.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Tell me how. If I say that masturbation is not a sin, and can be casual, how is that a slippery slope? Do you know what a slippery slope actually is?

I wrote, that it was a slippery slope BEFORE you know like in the brillo pad glove, and chastitiy belt ages.

It is not clear to me what this means.

One day because of such disrespect of what these so called "rights" (sins) The things you think of as unthinkable, will be legal. And the debate WILL be whether or not to legalise murder, or rape, or child abuse.

You are equivocating masturbation with all sorts of crimes, that is what a slippery slope is. It is an equivocation fallacy. How does masturbation lead to learning how to get away with rape?

Don't not you see a pattern, have you not seen what countries of the past have done? Like for instance Rome where eventualy men were alowed to kill any family member, wife, daughter or son. Do you think amarica is immune to such beastly edicts? Ya it's all fun a games now, but just wait untill the country's poeple are so selfish and uncaring that the gov. will have no choice then to take freedom away, once that happenes(more than likely through war) what ARE you going to say to the increased immoralilty that the country has ignored? Do you think that all of a sudden they will pay attention? Do the right thing? Ha!

Nice, real nice. I can't believe you would question the morals of my descendents. It's almost an ad hom attack, but it's not really me that you are attacking. I think you have made the first succesful prophetic ad hominem. Congratulations on the introduction of a new fallacy.

You miss my point compeletly, you will infuence your kids, and your kids will influence thier grandkids, more than just about anyone else they know. The next generation always takes it a step further, if you kids are taught to be sexually immoral now, they may be the ones that have no regard for a human life, later, even yours. Try to think about the future you are leaving for yourself, when you can no longer take care of yourself, if there is no respect for morality, who's to say that you might not be euthinised, for convieniance, since you can no longer care for yourself? It's all fun and games, untill someone gets hurt.

 

[immure]

And also - with no disrespect meant - I don't think any female can really lecture men on the evils of something they've never had experience with. I would not presume to lecture you on how to be a good wife (Ever read Proverbs 21:9?).

Men know their Bible. They also know their hearts. If they believe what they are doing is wrong, they can stop. But it's a personal decision, to be decided between them and the Father.

 

[Chrysalis Kat]

And also - with no disrespect meant - I don't think any female can really lecture men on the evils of something they've never had experience with. I would not presume to lecture you on how to be a good wife (Ever read Proverbs 21:9?).

Men know their Bible. They also know their hearts. If they believe what they are doing is wrong, they can stop. But it's a personal decision, to be decided between them and the Father.

With all due respect... women can and do maturbate. Many women are not wives. Many women know the bible quite well!

 

[immure]

With all due respect... women can and do maturbate. Many women are not wives. Many women know the bible quite well!

Apologies, was not suggesting that you didn't! Merely that men can be trusted to make this decision by themselves!

 

[Chrysalis Kat]

Apologies, was not suggesting that you didn't! Merely that men can be trusted to make this decision by themselves!

Agreed. I have no problem with what you wrote but there has been a tendency in this thread to assume that only men touch and are the only ones that confront this issue and they have received the greatest condemnation.

 

[flicka]

She has two daughters. Your not teaching her anything about the birds and the bees with your condesending comments.

Condescending? Hardly. My comments were spot on regardless of who has kids and who doesn't.

Masturbation is something that people do. Jeasusfreaks daughters will do it, they will discover their sexuality despite moms thinking just like we all do. Teach them it's nasty, dirty, a sin...and they are going to be problems at some point, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not.

You control your sexuality, not the sexuality of your kids or anyone else.

Some else said it...sex is a drive. It's built in. Believe it's from God if that's your cup of tea. Knowing what you body can/can't do is important and that includes ::gasp:: all things sexual. Some people act like anyone having an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] outside married missionary position Christian sex is an outrage or something.

Threads like this show me just how disturbed minds can become when indoctrinated by organized religion and proves my point about problems happening...they are happening to many of you and don't even know it. Your mind translates vilifying learning about your own sexuality as being good little christians when none of this was addressed in the bible and goes against everything we know about a healthy mind and body.