Masturbation... is it wrong?

[IcarusFell]

Now all we need is classes on how to...

Nice slippery slope argument. Next you will be saying "Don't legalize watering lawns everyday during droughts, because if you do... then people will begin drowning children in bathtubs, and running over elderly people for fun."

Now all we need is classes on how to...

Take drugs and not get caugt.

Oh great, another one for the drug war. Jesus loves immoral wars, right?! That might be a good class. I already distribute literatur on how to pass drug test. Maybe I should consider teaching people instead?

Really, teaching some how to sin is plain wrong, in more ways than one

Yea, if you really think masturbation is a sin.

Hey, im being serious, imaggin how many people would not be in Jail if they knew how to do that.

Don't worry, politicians and self-proclaimed guardians of morality will just find more consensual acts to criminalize.

::Sings:: Minor drug offenders fill your prisons
You don’t even flinch
All our taxes paying for your wars
Against the new non-rich ::Sings::

I think you might wish to reevaluate what you said here. I have the Ability to murder people. If I find it pleasurable, why would I be so uptight about enjoying myself by killing people.

I know you were trying to apply it to masturbation. But you did it in a very touchy manner.

What you do to your body is your business and God's. When you harm someone else, then it is wrong.

 

[IcarusFell]

Wow... I got off topic. Sorry about that....

 

[Chrysalis Kat]

Wow... I got off topic. Sorry about that....

Don't appologize. You were perfectly on point!

 

[sparklecat]

Wow... I got off topic. Sorry about that....

Hey, I was considering jumping in with a discussion of the show Con when the talk of teaching people how to commit crimes came up




Happy 1000th post, Chrysalis Kat!

 

[invisible trousers]

Yes not a legit Question. Although there are some similarities in what they're intended to do to the looker/jerker.

-Give Pleasure

Translation: sexual pleasure is bad. Be ashamed of yourself.

-Be "Loads of Fun"

What? This doesn't make any sense. To be in line with the whole shame thing, I guess sexual activities cannot be fun under any circumstance.

-A "way for young people to get used to seeing sex

I wasn't aware that masturbating is the same as seeing sex between other people. When you're masturbating generally it's only you there, but with sex there is...2 people. No difference I guess.

-A way for yo to screw yourself over.

What? That's not even an argument you're just typing words.

-A way to satifsy your horny level.
-A way to satifsy your want to feel/see/know what sex looks like
-A way to enhance Your Lust, and have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]

Translation: Sexual pleasure is bad. You should repress all your feelings and be ashamed of yourself.

So if they both do very much the same thing, why is one right, and one wrong?

You're really grasping at straws here because they don't do the same thing at all. One is an actual physical act while the other is pictures. I can't believe that this is being argued. Would you like me to get some dictionary definitions to help clear things? You're purposely using vague and wrong points because that's the best you can do.

I think you might wish to reevaluate what you said here. I have the Ability to murder people. If I find it pleasurable, why would I be so uptight about enjoying myself by killing people.

Sexual pleasure is the same as murder. You need to feel shame about your genitals and anything sexual. Please. This is ridiculous.

Don't not you see a pattern, have you not seen what countries of the past have done? Like for instance Rome where eventualy men were alowed to kill any family member, wife, daughter or son. Do you think amarica is immune to such beastly edicts? Ya it's all fun a games now, but just wait untill the country's poeple are so selfish and uncaring that the gov. will have no choice then to take freedom away, once that happenes(more than likely through war) what ARE you going to say to the increased immoralilty that the country has ignored? Do you think that all of a sudden they will pay attention? Do the right thing? Ha!

Because ancient Rome is exactly the same as America today. This argument is silly; we've had masturbation for how many thousands of years but the world hasn't fallen apart. Strange. You and others keep predicting that all these terrible things will happen because of masturbation, but none of it does. How can your opinion have any validity if the things being predicted don't happen and probably never will?

You miss my point compeletly, you will infuence your kids, and your kids will influence thier grandkids, more than just about anyone else they know. The next generation always takes it a step further, if you kids are taught to be sexually immoral now, they may be the ones that have no regard for a human life, later, even yours. Try to think about the future you are leaving for yourself, when you can no longer take care of yourself, if there is no respect for morality, who's to say that you might not be euthinised, for convieniance, since you can no longer care for yourself? It's all fun and games, untill someone gets hurt.

Masturbation has been around for how many thousands of years? And why hasn't any of this happened yet? You're nearly spouting rhetoric now. There is no way you can show that masturbation will lead to any of the silly things you're talking about, probably because masturbation has never caused any problems like that.

And also - with no disrespect meant - I don't think any female can really lecture men on the evils of something they've never had experience with.

I understand. Girls don't actually touch or anything like that since the only people with sexual drives are guys.

Merely that men can be trusted to make this decision by themselves!

Really? Why is that? We do that then I travel over to other subforums where guys whine and complain about how hard it is to go without masturbating. This is like really quiet misogyny.

Your mind translates vilifying learning about your own sexuality as being good little christians when none of this was addressed in the bible and goes against everything we know about a healthy mind and body.

Why think when you can let the church decide things for you?

 

[Aceman1992]

How so? What is selfish about a personal act?

Love is altruistic (Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness). All acts are personal (we're people - anything a person does is a personal act). It's the intent behind the act that distinguishes one from the other. Can we focus on the intent?

Whoa there, you just said that lust is the selfish opposite of love. Now you're saying that lust is wanting to have sex with a woman outside of wedlock. Then you equivocate want of sex with a woman outside of wedlock to masturbation. I am telling you that sex with another person (or thing) does not necessarily have anything to do with masturbation.

Again, the verse is talking about the intent (not the act). Since the woman being lusted over is not involved (assuming ESP is not being used), it is a description of the selfish intent of personal satisfaction without regard for anyone else. Not wanting to provide a personal opinion, I've looked up several studies that describe top (i.e. ten) reasons people touch. The top six-eight have something to do with "lusting" over someone else in one way or another. So, yes, masturbation is very tied to wanting sex with someone else.

I still don't see how you justify your equivocation here. I will admit that masturbation can be OCD behavior (since any action can), but I fail to see how masturbation is the same as lusting after a woman in the adulterous sense. I also fail to see how masturbation is any more selfish than eating when I'm not hungry.

I was making a point that when the reasons start to progress beyond the top ten or so found in studies, then real serious physical and emotional issues become the issue. I'll refer to my earlier point about what the top reasons revolve around.

Back to the selfishness part of masturbation, masturbation conditions our bodies to respond to self-stimulation, which is self-centered. A study from the National Health and Social Life Survey (NHSLS) found that "even though a fair number of people touch, they often report feeling guilty about it. In fact, at least for men who touch, about half report feeling guilty about their behavior. For women who touch, the rates of experiencing guilt were somewhat higher. "

If over half the people feel guilty about it, then the majority find something about it that is ultimately "not right". I would say that the guilt arises ultimately from the knowledge that they realize that they are being selfish in some way or another. Selfishness is sin and then we get back to the theological discussion of morals.

I'm not going to get into the comparison between masturbation and eating. You'll have to explain your connection between the two subjects that you are thinking of before I make any comments about it.

 

[IcarusFell]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Self-love, my liege, is not so vile a sin, as self-neglecting." --William Shakespeare

I love Billy S.
[/font]

 

[Chrysalis Kat]

If over half the people feel guilty about it, then the majority find something about it that is ultimately "not right". I would say that the guilt arises ultimately from the knowledge that they realize that they are being selfish in some way or another. Selfishness is sin and then we get back to the theological discussion of morals.

OR.... A little bit of American History:

Our attitudes about masturbation have deep roots for sure. Around the turn-of-the-century, some adults were so against masturbation that they forced their daughters to wear gloves made of a steel-wool-like material (like Brillo pads) at night and to put a powder on their genitals that made them painful to touch. They made their sons wear metal chastity belts at night that made it painful to have an erection. During the 1820s male masturbation was prevented by piecing the foreskin with a wire and soldering the ends together. Boys and girls were discouraged from masturbation by the threat of blindness, madness and illness. Of course, all of these are not true.Of course, the subject of masturbation was taboo years before the United States was created. All kinds of chastity belts and other devices were used to prevent masturbation, probably as far back in history as you can go. This will vary from culture to culture.

Most surveys suggest that approximately 94% of teenage males "admitted" that they masturbated and about 70% of teen females "admitted" to this also. It’s always hard to establish absolute truth in any survey on sexuality and sexual behavior, since they are influenced so much by what people think is "normal". It is important to note the word "admitted" in the results of these surveys. Doesn't that word imply something shameful about the act of masturbating? We think so. This leads us to believe that we are still suffering from the residual Victorian morals when boys and girls were discouraged from masturbating.

http://www.coolnurse.com/masturbation.htm

 

[Salubri]

One day because of such disrespect of what these so called "rights" (sins) The things you think of as unthinkable, will be legal. And the debate WILL be whether or not to legalise murder, or rape, or child abuse.
Don't not you see a pattern, have you not seen what countries of the past have done? Like for instance Rome where eventualy men were alowed to kill any family member, wife, daughter or son. Do you think amarica is immune to such beastly edicts? Ya it's all fun a games now, but just wait untill the country's poeple are so selfish and uncaring that the gov. will have no choice then to take freedom away, once that happenes(more than likely through war) what ARE you going to say to the increased immoralilty that the country has ignored? Do you think that all of a sudden they will pay attention? Do the right thing? Ha!

Are you even listening to yourself? You are equating giving yoursel sexual pleasure to committing murder. Now I know in YOUR docterine all sins are equal and YOUR belief is that masturbation is a sin, but c'mon. Not everone in this world or universe is going to subscribe to your (self righteouss and dogmatic) docterine or sense of "morrallity" just because you may think it ids bad doesn't mean ipso facto, it IS. I fail yto see how the encouragement of masturbation will lead to a broken society where rape and murder is legal.

Couln't you be blowing things out of proportin....jus' a lil....maybe?

 

[IcarusFell]

Victorian morals

Ah the victorian era... Such an interesting time for hypocrisy. The most erotic porn was made during this time. Many of the people in these pictures were likely those preaching morality the most. Just like today. hehe. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Morals in that time also meant a return to "biblical morals", such as misogynism. Yet at the sime time women subjected themselves and men asserted thier position, feminism began sprouting in England.

 

[MQTA]

Nope......no harm no foul.

30 years ago I heard that 95% of the males do it, the other 5% lie

 

[invisible trousers]

That number has now increased to 113% due to the decaying moral standards of today's youth.

 

[Ninja Turtles]

That number has now increased to 113% due to the decaying moral standards of today's youth.

Because we all know no one masturbated in the good ol' days. All men touch or have masturbated. Unless you have no arms, then you've masturbated.

 

[MQTA]

That number has now increased to 113% due to the decaying moral standards of today's youth.

NOTHING has changed except the level of comfort in talking About It.

Gotta keep your plumbing working.

 

[MQTA]

Because we all know no one masturbated in the good ol' days. All men touch or have masturbated. Unless you have no arms, then you've masturbated.

someone told me when they were in the army one of his peers said it best....


it's MY soap, and MY body, I'll wash it as fast as I want

 

[lawtonfogle]

I fail yto see how the encouragement of masturbation will lead to a broken society where rape and murder is legal.

Couln't you be blowing things out of proportin....jus' a lil....maybe?

Ok, that type of situation might take awhile, so i will give you a satistic that i have read. I do not know where the survey was taken, but i believe it said an American high school.

it read 'over 50% of teenage boys think it is ok to force sex on the female if they have been dating over 6 months.'


i take for granted this was not a christian high school.

 

[IcarusFell]

i take for granted this was not a christian high school.

Don't be so sure.....

(Had to endure a year of christian school)

 

[lawtonfogle]

ok to explain, forcing sex. hmmm

that sounds like rape. hmmm

oh, it is rape
silly me

I will admit that the percentage might be a little lower, its been a long time. But i can ganurtee it was over 30%.

that means that some people in todays world think rape is ok if it is done under certain conditions. Would this be if everyone was taught any type of sex outside of marriage is wrong.

And personally i believe that the main part of knowing about sex is what something that newlyweds should find out on their own. Experimenting is fun, and under that condition, ok.

 

[Chavez]

Masturbation is one of the ways that sexual lust manifests in our lives.

Lust is craving sexually what God has forbidden. To want what you don't and weren't meant to have. It goes beyond attraction, appreciation of beauty or even a healthy desire for sex - it wants to find satisfaction outside of God.

But fornication and all unclean-
ness or covetousness, let it not even
be named among you, as is fitting
for saints;

neither filthiness, nor foolish
talking, nor coarse jesting, which
are not fitting, but rather giving of
thanks.
Ephesians 5:3-4

It's not just the sins of adultery and sex outside of marriage God wants us to be freed from; He wants us to eliminate any kind of impurity in our thoughts and actions.

God invented sex. Passionate sex was God's idea. He isn't embarrassed by it. Song of Solomon is an entire book in the Bible dedicated to celebrating pure sex in marriage.

Just as God gave us an appetite for food so that we wouldn't forget to feed our bodies, He gave us a sexual appetite so that man and woman would keep being joined together and creating offspring in marriage.

Though lust longs for an object or a person, ultimately this object is not its prize, its goal is the very act of desiring.

Lust is a serious sin. Masturbation is one expression of a lustful heart.

Masturbation grows stronger over time and requires more and more food. And it like variety. Once you commit to feeding it all it needs to feel the ultimate thrill, you'll find yourself having to indulge in more and more lustful thoughts and you'll end up looking for thrills in places you never expected to go.


For those who live according to
the flesh set their minds on the
things of the flesh, but those who live
according to the Spirit, the things
of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is
death, but to be spiritually minded
is life and peace.
Romans 8:5-6

By lusting in your heart you are shifting God from the seat of focus and placing temptation upon it. We are practically idolising the object of our lust.

Therefore put to death your
members which are on the earth:
fornication, uncleanness, passion,
evil desire, and covetousness, which
is idolatry.
Colossians 3:5

Our bodies belong to God. We should use them only to His glory. If you were suddenly made aware that God was standing at the other side of the room while you were masturbating how would you react?

Or do you not know that your
body is the temple of the Holy SPirit
who is in you, whom you have from
God, and you are not your own?
1 Corinthians 6:19

We should learn to control ourselves,

For this is the will of God, your
santification: that you should ab-
stain from sexual immorality;

that each of you should know
how to possess his own vessel in
santification and honour,

that no one should take advan-
tage of and defraud his brother in
this matter, because the Lord is the
avenger of all such, as we also fore-
warned you and testified.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-5

lest they take root and grow!

But each one is tempted when
he is drawn away by his own desires
and enticed.

Then, when desire has con-
ceived it gives birth to sin; and sin,
when it is full grown, brings forth
death.

Do not be deceived, my beloved
brethern.
James 1:14-16

But!! ->

No temptation has overtaken
you except such as is common to
man; but God is faithful, who will
not allow you to be tempted beyond
what you are able, but with the temp-
tation will also make the way of
escape, that you may be able to bear it.
1 Corinthians 10:13

 

[MQTA]

You were taught well. Now what do YOU think. We know what you were taught.