Mastrubation, lust, and the imaginationx - an interesting question

[conkertheking]

I find this question quite interesting:
The argument that many here use to support the claim that mastrubation is inherently wrong is that Christ said, lust outside marriage counts as adultery. Presumably, this is the case when someone fantasizes about a friend, celebrity, or other actual person. So my question is as follows: If, for example, someone reads suggestive stories while mastrubating, or imagines an entirely fictional character, does this still count as luts/adultery? After all, you're not actually necessarily fantasizing about adultery - you could, for example, imagine that this person is your wife, and anyway, since she's not a real person, you aren't actually comitting adultery with her in your imagination...

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[Ave Maria]

Yes, it still counts as lust. I don't know if it counts as adultery though. It is still sinful even if you're just fantasizing about a fictional person.

 

[kevin36]

This has always been an interesting question, and one that to my knowledge the Bible doesn't speak to directly (the one passage that most point to as against masturbation actually has nothing to do with it) .

It'll be interesting to see the responses...

Let the arguing begin...

 

[Dannager]

Yes, it still counts as lust. I don't know if it counts as adultery though. It is still sinful even if you're just fantasizing about a fictional person.

It equals lust in the modern sense, but not in the sense that it was intended in the Bible.

 

[CShephard53]

If you're trying to find loopholes in God's word to get away with being in bondage to something, good luck explaining it to God. settingcaptivesfree.com. Go there. Be free.

 

[Dannager]

If you're trying to find loopholes in God's word to get away with being in bondage to something, good luck explaining it to God. settingcaptivesfree.com. Go there. Be free.

I've never once felt "in bondage" to masturbation. In fact, it's actually pretty rewarding. So I'm going to assume that you're simply linking to that because you disagree with it on moral grounds and use the cover of "bondage" to convince the otherwise unwilling to listen to you for a few seconds.

 

[Solidlyhere]

Lust? Yes (unless you're not feeling excited while doing it).
Sin? No.

I do consider masturbation a sin.
Certainly people in biblical times were doing it.
If God would have wanted people to NOT do it, He would (probably) have listed it as a no-no.

If others think it's a sin . . . good for you.
Each person gets to decide for himself.

 

[dayhiker]

Yes, it still counts as lust. I don't know if it counts as adultery though. It is still sinful even if you're just fantasizing about a fictional person.

It sees to me that if people take reading a fictional account as sinful, then they must also take reading the Song of Solomn as sinful too. After all there are a few accounts of sexual activity in that book.

dayhiker

 

[Polycarp1]

It might be worthwhile for people to look up the distinction between lust and sexual desire, too.

 

[Piedpiper123]

Masturbation is a normal and healthy human activity and as such it is a gift from God. The sin committed is probably that of adding to the Bible by suggesting that the Bible forbids it.

As for fantasy, how can fantasy be adultery unless it is a fantasy ABOUT an act of adultery. Common sense.

 

[Murdock]

I find this question quite interesting:
The argument that many here use to support the claim that mastrubation is inherently wrong is that Christ said, lust outside marriage counts as adultery. Presumably, this is the case when someone fantasizes about a friend, celebrity, or other actual person. So my question is as follows: If, for example, someone reads suggestive stories while mastrubating, or imagines an entirely fictional character, does this still count as luts/adultery? After all, you're not actually necessarily fantasizing about adultery - you could, for example, imagine that this person is your wife, and anyway, since she's not a real person, you aren't actually comitting adultery with her in your imagination...

Thoughts, anyone?

All Jesus is saying is that without the holy Spirit, our hearts are filled with lust, envy, greed, anger, and pride which all lead to actions based on the above. So we all need redemption.

But the bible also tells us that temptation is not sin, it only leads to sin. So it's treading on dangerous ground to perpetuate fantasies. Jesus is also telling us that only he can cleanse our hearts with his love and forgiveness and without him, we are at the mercy of our desires.

 

[CShephard53]

I've never once felt "in bondage" to masturbation. In fact, it's actually pretty rewarding. So I'm going to assume that you're simply linking to that because you disagree with it on moral grounds and use the cover of "bondage" to convince the otherwise unwilling to listen to you for a few seconds.

Yeah. Do you always accuse people of holding a position before you hear them state it?


If you are in bondage to anything other than Christ- that is you have an uncontrolled desire towards something- you are in sin. Period. So, whether or not masturbation is a sin is a completely different issue (I'm of the opinion that it really doesn't matter whether or not it's sin, but should be halted in my life because it can cause lust- if not because it's too easy to fall into it in bondage). I'm specifically talking about 'imaginative lust'. It's crap. Junk. Bad for you. AKA lust. That means its sin. Why? Because you're trying to use a cover for being in bondage to your desires. There is nothing wholesome about fantasies. It's just satisfying your own lusts.

Masturbation is a normal and healthy human activity and as such it is a gift from God. The sin committed is probably that of adding to the Bible by suggesting that the Bible forbids it.

Horrible logic there. Masturbation is a gift from God because it's 'normal and healthy'? Have fun convincing people of that one...

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I find this question quite interesting:
The argument that many here use to support the claim that mastrubation is inherently wrong is that Christ said, lust outside marriage counts as adultery. Presumably, this is the case when someone fantasizes about a friend, celebrity, or other actual person. So my question is as follows: If, for example, someone reads suggestive stories while mastrubating, or imagines an entirely fictional character, does this still count as luts/adultery? After all, you're not actually necessarily fantasizing about adultery - you could, for example, imagine that this person is your wife, and anyway, since she's not a real person, you aren't actually comitting adultery with her in your imagination...

Thoughts, anyone?

See... I don't think Christ WAS actually saying that there is anything inherently wrong about lusting after someone... I think he was saying that we must be mindful of our thoughts, lest they become acts... but he didn't mean for us to spenfd the rest of our lives second guessing ourselves and treating our natural urges, desires and aesthetic appreciation as some sort of internal enemy

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Yeah. Do you always accuse people of holding a position before you hear them state it?


If you are in bondage to anything other than Christ- that is you have an uncontrolled desire towards something- you are in sin. Period. So, whether or not masturbation is a sin is a completely different issue (I'm of the opinion that it really doesn't matter whether or not it's sin, but should be halted in my life because it can cause lust- if not because it's too easy to fall into it in bondage). I'm specifically talking about 'imaginative lust'. It's crap. Junk. Bad for you. AKA lust. That means its sin. Why? Because you're trying to use a cover for being in bondage to your desires. There is nothing wholesome about fantasies. It's just satisfying your own lusts.


Horrible logic there. Masturbation is a gift from God because it's 'normal and healthy'? Have fun convincing people of that one...

Why would God create something that is normal, healthy and good for you if he didn't support us doing it?

 

[Crane]

I definately think that this is a very controversal question many Christians debate about. I think thou that masturbation of any sort is wrong, whether you are fantasizing about your dog or a picture of flowers. Why? first of all, you are experiencing sexual arousal, and it is stated clearly on the Bible that is wrong before marriage. Secondly, when you touch, especially for guys, when they [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], they are killing their sperms. That is a sin also because you are destroying life in a sense, and that is another reason why God rejects contraceptives, and abortion.

 

[Citanul]

first of all, you are experiencing sexual arousal, and it is stated clearly on the Bible that is wrong before marriage.

Where does the Bible speak about sexual arousal? If it's a sin to become sexually aroused in anyway before you're married, then pretty much everyone is guilty of that.

Secondly, when you touch, especially for guys, when they [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], they are killing their sperms. That is a sin also because you are destroying life in a sense, and that is another reason why God rejects contraceptives, and abortion.

But by that logic, every time you have sex that doesn't result in conception you're sinning, because all the sperm dies. And even if it does result in conception, there are still millions of sperm that don't survive.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I definately think that this is a very controversal question many Christians debate about. I think thou that masturbation of any sort is wrong, whether you are fantasizing about your dog or a picture of flowers. Why? first of all, you are experiencing sexual arousal, and it is stated clearly on the Bible that is wrong before marriage. Secondly, when you touch, especially for guys, when they [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], they are killing their sperms. That is a sin also because you are destroying life in a sense, and that is another reason why God rejects contraceptives, and abortion.

How many sperms die even when a guy [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and a woman gets pregnant as a result?

Seems to ME that the difference between the number that die during masturbation, and the number that die even when conception occurs, is of such insignificant difference as to not matter in the slightest.

 

[Dannager]

I definately think that this is a very controversal question many Christians debate about. I think thou that masturbation of any sort is wrong, whether you are fantasizing about your dog or a picture of flowers. Why? first of all, you are experiencing sexual arousal, and it is stated clearly on the Bible that is wrong before marriage.

No theologian on earth will agree with you here. The Bible, nowhere, condemns sexual arousal. So you've got an incorrect view of how your own religion works, right out of the gate.

Secondly, when you touch, especially for guys, when they [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], they are killing their sperms. That is a sin also because you are destroying life in a sense, and that is another reason why God rejects contraceptives, and abortion.

Except sperm die anyway. It seems to me that you basically have absolutely no clue how male physiology works when it comes to sexual function. If we don't touch, the sperm die on their own and are discharged in urine, or are expelled unconsciously while we sleep (nocturnal emissions). So the sperm die anyway. To say that sperm dying is the same as human life dying is nonsensical, and both bad theology and bad medicine. Masturbation has been shown to be very healthy in moderation.

Please don't rail about something just because you've been told it's bad and blindly believe that. You've either been lied to, or you're making up reasons for disagreeing with masturbation. Neither one of them is something that you should be engaging in.

 

[Piedpiper123]

Horrible logic there. Masturbation is a gift from God because it's 'normal and healthy'? Have fun convincing people of that one...

Things that are normal and healthy are gifts from God it is plain common sense.

 

[dayhiker]

Things that are normal and healthy are gifts from God it is plain common sense.

I agree with you Piedpiper, masturbation is a gift from God as its normal and healthy. There was a boy in my home town that must have been taught that masturbation and sexual excitement was sinful. Anyways, one day he felt so bad about it all that he cut his penis off. I'd say how much better to be taught to touch, get rid of the sexual tension that has built up because your a healthy man and go on with ones life.
I'd even say learn how to last a while so when one gets married they can last and please their wife.

dayhiker