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Mastrubation and fornification
- Thread starter Greek55
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Fornication - human sexual intercourse other than between a man and his wife : sexual intercourse between a spouse and an unmarried person : sexual intercourse between unmarried people . Sexual intercourse on the part of an unmarried person accomplished with consent and not deemed adultery ,
Webster's 9th Collegiate Dictionary
While the spirit of consensual sex outside of marriage may be similarly tied to a mutual " love" , it lacks the ratification of publicly recognized documentation , i.e. "a marriage license " . [And such a license should only be given to responsibly eligible couples ] .
Now some may feel strongly that , what two consenting adults do by / with themselves is no one's business , but their own ; however , as often is the case , when such "free spirited " individuals cause an unprepared for pregnancy , or become carriers of STD's , it often falls upon society at large to bear the consequences , along with the individuals involved : Therefore , it is society's business as well , whether we are conducting ourselves in a hazardous fashion when it comes to expressing our human sexuality .
However , having said this , I am also aware that there are many variable circumstances , both inside and outside of marriage , and they should each be dealt with individually .
Yet , let us consider , that it is a common error , to wrongly think oneself as the exception to the rule . And while there may indeed be some exceptions to the rule , it is obvious , that those who do not appreciate the universal good will intended by the rule , will be compelled to see a multitude of exceptions , when in truth there is not nearly so many .
Sincerely , wm
Webster's 9th Collegiate Dictionary
While the spirit of consensual sex outside of marriage may be similarly tied to a mutual " love" , it lacks the ratification of publicly recognized documentation , i.e. "a marriage license " . [And such a license should only be given to responsibly eligible couples ] .
Now some may feel strongly that , what two consenting adults do by / with themselves is no one's business , but their own ; however , as often is the case , when such "free spirited " individuals cause an unprepared for pregnancy , or become carriers of STD's , it often falls upon society at large to bear the consequences , along with the individuals involved : Therefore , it is society's business as well , whether we are conducting ourselves in a hazardous fashion when it comes to expressing our human sexuality .
However , having said this , I am also aware that there are many variable circumstances , both inside and outside of marriage , and they should each be dealt with individually .
Yet , let us consider , that it is a common error , to wrongly think oneself as the exception to the rule . And while there may indeed be some exceptions to the rule , it is obvious , that those who do not appreciate the universal good will intended by the rule , will be compelled to see a multitude of exceptions , when in truth there is not nearly so many .
Sincerely , wm
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Obbi ,
It brings me great joy to share favorably with others .
Appreciate the positive feedback !
It brings me great joy to share favorably with others .
Appreciate the positive feedback !
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Michali said:
Hi Michali, I would question whether that would devalue love all together. I would also say that no one loves everyone else on earth. If we loved everyone as equal, then love suddenly looses all significance, it would seem to me. I cannot love someone on a personal level that I have never met or have not really made a psycological judgment of. The man who rapes and murders a child, I do not love for example. How could I?. Universal love, sounds romantic and all but it is an impossibilty. Sex is done from personal desire, be it the desire for pleasure or reproduce. Cleverly nature made sex feel good to encourage reproduction. There are risks with everything, some woman die when they give birth. I think alot of problems with marriage or people who think they are in love, stems from the confusion that is caused by positing love as a condition of sex. I hope i'm not misunderstood here.
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Christianity doesn't seek moderation ???
" Let your moderation be known unto all men . The Lord is at hand > " <-----> Philippians 4:5
Some good points being made about love . Of course not all love is the same.
Some love is equated with evil . In the New Testament we find the prediction - "...In the last days perilous times shall come " <---> 2nd Timothy 3:1+... And what tops the list of causes for these perilous times ?
Not floods , earthquakes , world war , etc . But the chief degradation of the human heart , to wit , " men shall be lovers of their own selves " For it is this kind of self - love which blinds us to understanding , so that , we cannot " put ourself in another's place " , and therefore cannot , " Do unto others as we would have them do to us " <-----> ( From Matthew 7:12 ) And consequently all manner of ungodliness follows : For without a working sense of " The Golden Rule " [ as it is called ] , there is no justice to keep the peace , and a vicious circle of indifference towards others in need , and aggression towards others with whom we compete , will turn like a twister upon our homes and our highways , except we repent !
Universal love as in John 3:16 - God loving the whole world , and every one in it : Also referred to as " Unconditional Love " , it is the Noblest of all love , because it discriminates against no one ! It is however not the same as intimate love .
In John 14 : 20-26 , Jesus describes the intimate Love of God , e.g. " Jesus ...said ...If any man love me , he will keep my words : and my Father will love him , and we will come unto him , and make our abode with him . "<--> Vs . 23
God loves us initially simply because we exist , and it is God's Nature to love that which he has thoughtfully created . And without this unconditional love , no sinful person , such as myself , could ever be saved ,i.e.( spared the just penalty of death for having sinned , and be granted access to the source of
Eternal Life ), But , it is the Intimate Love of God as spoken of in the above verse which seals us into The Lord's Everlasting Kingdom .
Moreover we are to love as God loves , that is to say , have good will / warm regard for another person , simply because of the form they have , and the potential - being made to be in God's image affords ! Yet , we may indeed justly hate the "sins" which people commit ; but we may not justly hate the person themself , for that is to disrespect God and despise the very same Merciful Longsuffering he has extended to each and every one of us for Christ's sake . And we cannot tell whether any will at some point "see the light " of God's Love and repent : but one thing is certain - they won't be so inspired by being hated by their fellow human beings !
I apoligize for going a bit off topic , hope it causes no grief .
wm
" Let your moderation be known unto all men . The Lord is at hand > " <-----> Philippians 4:5
Some good points being made about love . Of course not all love is the same.
Some love is equated with evil . In the New Testament we find the prediction - "...In the last days perilous times shall come " <---> 2nd Timothy 3:1+... And what tops the list of causes for these perilous times ?
Not floods , earthquakes , world war , etc . But the chief degradation of the human heart , to wit , " men shall be lovers of their own selves " For it is this kind of self - love which blinds us to understanding , so that , we cannot " put ourself in another's place " , and therefore cannot , " Do unto others as we would have them do to us " <-----> ( From Matthew 7:12 ) And consequently all manner of ungodliness follows : For without a working sense of " The Golden Rule " [ as it is called ] , there is no justice to keep the peace , and a vicious circle of indifference towards others in need , and aggression towards others with whom we compete , will turn like a twister upon our homes and our highways , except we repent !
Universal love as in John 3:16 - God loving the whole world , and every one in it : Also referred to as " Unconditional Love " , it is the Noblest of all love , because it discriminates against no one ! It is however not the same as intimate love .
In John 14 : 20-26 , Jesus describes the intimate Love of God , e.g. " Jesus ...said ...If any man love me , he will keep my words : and my Father will love him , and we will come unto him , and make our abode with him . "<--> Vs . 23
God loves us initially simply because we exist , and it is God's Nature to love that which he has thoughtfully created . And without this unconditional love , no sinful person , such as myself , could ever be saved ,i.e.( spared the just penalty of death for having sinned , and be granted access to the source of
Eternal Life ), But , it is the Intimate Love of God as spoken of in the above verse which seals us into The Lord's Everlasting Kingdom .
Moreover we are to love as God loves , that is to say , have good will / warm regard for another person , simply because of the form they have , and the potential - being made to be in God's image affords ! Yet , we may indeed justly hate the "sins" which people commit ; but we may not justly hate the person themself , for that is to disrespect God and despise the very same Merciful Longsuffering he has extended to each and every one of us for Christ's sake . And we cannot tell whether any will at some point "see the light " of God's Love and repent : but one thing is certain - they won't be so inspired by being hated by their fellow human beings !
I apoligize for going a bit off topic , hope it causes no grief .
wm
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wayfaring man said:
First you need to establish a god exists before claiming it as an authority over humanity. We have what men wrote in the bible, and "faith"! Therefore you have no authority to claim anything in the name of a god. I agree that warm regards towards fellow humans is so important. Christianity does not seek moderation, just look around you. Look at the threads and posts from YOUR fellow Christians. Look at the religious leaders in the US. Again and again i'm am disgusted at the amount of bigotry and intolerence demonstrated by Christians and Musslims and the Jews. Of course there are "some" Christians here that have more open minded views. I try to provoke them in case you haven't noticed. If you are a gentle heart you will know that we share the same cause.
Other fears, other securities.-- Christianity had brought into life a quite novel and limitless perilousness, and therewith quite novel securities, pleasures, recreations and evaluations of all things. Our century denies this perilousness, and does so with a good conscience: and yet it continues to drag along with it the old habits of Christian security, Christian enjoyment, recreation, evaluation! It even drags them into its noblest arts and philosophies! How worn out and feeble, how insipid and awkward, how arbitrarily fanatical and, above all, how insecure all this must appear, now that the fearful antithesis to it, the omnipresent fear of the Christian for his eternal salvation, has been lost.
from Nietzsche's Daybreak,s.
But in the end one also has to understand that the needs that religion has satisfied and philosophy is now supposed to satisfy are not immutable; they can be weakened and exterminated. Consider, for example, that Christian distress of mind that comes from sighing over ones inner depravity and care for ones salvation - all concepts originating in nothing but errors of reason and deserving, not satisfaction, but obliteration.
from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human
The Christian has so far been the "moral being," a matchless curiosityand as the "moral being" he was more absurd, mendacious, vain, frivolous, and more disadvantageous for himself than even the greatest despiser of humanity could imagine in his dreams. Christian moralitythe most malignant form of the will to lie, the real Circe of humanity: that which corrupted it. It is not error as error that horrifies me at this sight, not the lack, for thousands of years, of "good will," discipline, decency, courage in matters of the spirit, revealed by its victory:it is the lack of nature, it is the utterly gruesome fact that antinature itself received the highest honors as morality and was fixed over humanity as law and categorical imperative! ...
To blunder to such an extent, not as individuals, not as a people, but as humanity! ... That one taught men to despise the very first instincts of life; that one mendaciously invented a "soul," a "spirit" to ruin the body; that one taught men to experience the presupposition of life, sexuality, as something unclean; that one looks for the evil principle in what is most profoundly necessary for growth, in severe self-love this very word constitutes slander! that, conversely, one regards the typical signs of decline and contradiction of the instincts, the "selfless," the loss of a center of gravity, "depersonalization" and "neighbor love" (addiction to the neighbor!) as the higher value, what am I saying! the absolute value ... What! Is humanity itself décadent? was it always? from Nietzsche's ECCE HOMO
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I don't mastrubate excessively only about 3 times a week, but I'm trying to stop and I end up doing it and I feel terrible and that I'm hellbound. Please pray that I can give up mastrubation, please.
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Greek55 said:I don't mastrubate excessively only about 3 times a week, but I'm trying to stop and I end up doing it and I feel terrible and that I'm hellbound. Please pray that I can give up mastrubation, please.
Ask yourself: is it worth beating yourself up for no good reason over something that harms no one, just because a centuries-old book can be loosely interpreted to mean that it's a Bad Thing?
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foolsparade ,
I'm sorry if the hypocrisies of many claiming to know about God , or represent religion have put a block in your thinking of God , or soured your taste for religion . Haven't we all been confronted by these apparent contradictions ?
And yet , It is only our own hypocrisy which threatens us inescapably .
When I speak of the things I am convicted of about God and Truth and Love etc., I am attempting to convey the concepts which I've embraced already .
If you are looking for proof , I can tell you how I found , and am finding mine ...But that may be for yet another thread ?
Ironically , The notion that we should always keep an open mind - is in itself , close minded ; because in some instances it is right , and good , for one to close their mind . It's a matter of knowing when and to what , or to whom .
When it comes to sex , conservative measures make much more sense to me , than liberal indulgence does ; I see this in the Bible , and I see this in my own personal life , and current observation of the world around me .
Gentleness , meekness , humbleness , are all yea , and not nay .The proof being the lives wherein they are witnessed from , and the fruit borne therein and thereby . But I digress .
Peace , wm
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Greek55 , You have taken the right steps in establishing innocence in your life in this matter ; As it is written : " If we confess our sins , he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins , and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness . " <-----> 1st John 1:9
And as difficult as it may be to overcome our own blind instincts on a day to day / moment to moment basis , the more we experience the rejoicing of a clear conscience towards God , the more we are inspired to pursue the life which is above reproach . Whatever we do , we need not concede defeat by " throwing in the towel which covers sin by denial's veiled approach at dismissing feelings of guilt and shame " , for we have a far , far , greater covering in the shed blood of Jesus Christ . Which was shed for our forgiveness , so that we can go before The Lord and receive help in our trials and tribulations so that we may be inabled to overcome even as He overcame , [whether it be the guilt of a failure , or the temptation to fail ], The Lord is faithful assist us mightily , when we're humbled and honest before him . Go in peace and let the faith of The Lord Jesus be your salvation , never being proud of the strength and wisdom God brings into your life , but always being thankful , even when this life , or this world deals you a plight !
I have prayed for you as I pray for myself . In Jesus Name . Amen .
To the Glory of God The Father . Amen .
Respectfully , wm
I'm sorry if the hypocrisies of many claiming to know about God , or represent religion have put a block in your thinking of God , or soured your taste for religion . Haven't we all been confronted by these apparent contradictions ?
And yet , It is only our own hypocrisy which threatens us inescapably .
When I speak of the things I am convicted of about God and Truth and Love etc., I am attempting to convey the concepts which I've embraced already .
If you are looking for proof , I can tell you how I found , and am finding mine ...But that may be for yet another thread ?
Ironically , The notion that we should always keep an open mind - is in itself , close minded ; because in some instances it is right , and good , for one to close their mind . It's a matter of knowing when and to what , or to whom .
When it comes to sex , conservative measures make much more sense to me , than liberal indulgence does ; I see this in the Bible , and I see this in my own personal life , and current observation of the world around me .
Gentleness , meekness , humbleness , are all yea , and not nay .The proof being the lives wherein they are witnessed from , and the fruit borne therein and thereby . But I digress .
Peace , wm
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Greek55 , You have taken the right steps in establishing innocence in your life in this matter ; As it is written : " If we confess our sins , he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins , and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness . " <-----> 1st John 1:9
And as difficult as it may be to overcome our own blind instincts on a day to day / moment to moment basis , the more we experience the rejoicing of a clear conscience towards God , the more we are inspired to pursue the life which is above reproach . Whatever we do , we need not concede defeat by " throwing in the towel which covers sin by denial's veiled approach at dismissing feelings of guilt and shame " , for we have a far , far , greater covering in the shed blood of Jesus Christ . Which was shed for our forgiveness , so that we can go before The Lord and receive help in our trials and tribulations so that we may be inabled to overcome even as He overcame , [whether it be the guilt of a failure , or the temptation to fail ], The Lord is faithful assist us mightily , when we're humbled and honest before him . Go in peace and let the faith of The Lord Jesus be your salvation , never being proud of the strength and wisdom God brings into your life , but always being thankful , even when this life , or this world deals you a plight !
I have prayed for you as I pray for myself . In Jesus Name . Amen .
To the Glory of God The Father . Amen .
Respectfully , wm
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Michali
Teleologist
You might be right, it would devalue love all together, but not actually. For if everyone were in a completely unified love system, everything would would be perfect in comparison to if everyone were divided in hate. So, the significance remains, because the consequences of the alternative remains.foolsparade said:
But we have to get away from the emotional "love". I'm speaking of a love where you litterally care for your neighbor as yourself. In plainer words, "I would make sure I have food for myself, and make sure that I have food for my "self" that lives next door." A real unity type thing.
It does seem so right now, but as a Gnostic, I believe that there is a divine potential in everyone. This utopia will only be at it's fullest when everyone releases themselves from their bodies (their deceived state).foolsparade said:
That's true. It is from personal desire, even when we do it solely for reproduction. But, you see, the rule is, "love your neighbor as your self." Our lines of our "self" should encompass everyone, including our own body. Children are a benefit, I suppose. I mean, sometimes, it's better not to have them, and sometimes, it is.foolsparade said:
I agree whole heartedly. The physical attraction lasts only so long, so it is better to look for a woman that serves a "reasonable" benefit. Reasons which could range from "personality" to "rich".foolsparade said:I think alot of problems with marriage or people who think they are in love, stems from the confusion that is caused by positing love as a condition of sex. I hope i'm not misunderstood here.
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wayfaring man said:
You may be of a kinder more compassionate persuasion of the so-called Christian. I do not accept an individual's assumption and the means of that individual to label their method of salvation as absolute truth. You may take note that many of the more liberal countries regarding sex have such fewer problems than the US for example. America has been so dumbed down by such bizarre forms of moralism. We are the strogest country in the world,{ie; our weapons are strong and plentyful,} but notice our murder rate, the rate of unwanted pregnacies, drug addiction and so on.
I am not convinced of "our blind insticts", only of blind faith. In fact I think our extincts have the best eyes. For example the reason I do not kill or harm animals is not because of some silly law made by man, but because how it would make me feel inside. Can you honestly tell me that the reason you have not raped is because you do not want to go to jail or that you fear eternal punishment? I feel humbled that you would pray for me, but I am not the one who needs saved. I accept resonsibilties for my own actions, therefore I need not to be saved from myself.
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