Mass Formation Pyschosis and Moral Decay

[Rachel20]

How does the above tie in with Mass Formation Psychosis and Moral Decay?

If Satan is the father of lies, it stands to reason that he is behind the perpetual spreading of lies that deceive the whole world. This would also mean that he is responsible for long-term deception—indoctrination, predictive programming, moral decay—you name it.

One strategy he used against Job reveals a mindset that his best weapon is making a person feel his life is threatened. And indeed, it's the one we see with the current situation and the willingness of one part of the population to go along with totalitarian measures against the other:

And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. Job 2:4

 

[com7fy8]

If I am unable to recognize the lies and misrepresentations I'm bombarded with, am I culpable for reacting as if they are true?

Well, those mothers and fathers cursed themselves and their children with the shed blood of Jesus. They called for His crucifixion. And when Peter preached that to them, he spoke as though they were guilty.

Have you read Joshua chapter nine? See how verses 1-14 might apply to this.

 

[durangodawood]

When I read the OP title I was sure this was going to be about "stop the steal".

 

[Rachel20]

When I read the OP title I was sure this was going to be about "stop the steal".

I can start a thread on that if you like If you have some time, watch the video (at very bottom of OP). I'd be interested in your opinion.

 

[public hermit]

Well, those mothers and fathers cursed themselves and their children with the shed blood of Jesus. They called for His crucifixion. And when Peter preached that to them, he spoke as though they were guilty.

This reply is a bit cryptic, and I'm not great with that kind of thing so you might have to say more.

The whole "Jews cursed themselves" narrative is unhelpful, has worked like poison in Christian hearts, and should be discarded. Yes, systemic and generational sin is handed down but it's not a necessity. Each generation has a responsibility to face the problems of its time and work to correct them. And, things can change lol. It takes effort, even cognitive effort, and sacrifice, but change is possible.

Again, I wonder how much of this boils down to laziness. It's so much easier to buy into a line of explanation than it is to give it thoughtful consideration. And, if that line of explanation meets other needs (religious needs, emotional needs, identity needs) it makes it easy. On top of all that, if my friends and family buy into it...oh my, the effort needed to be honest with one's self.

Since this is related to politics, I wonder at what point can I stop being critical with the information I receive? Can I really just take a position and hold it without coming back to it with a critical eye? I don't think so. It's this unwillingness to be self-critical that surely contributes to group hypnosis/formation.

 

[com7fy8]

Well, those mothers and fathers cursed themselves and their children with the shed blood of Jesus. They called for His crucifixion. And when Peter preached that to them, he spoke as though they were guilty.

This reply is a bit cryptic, and I'm not great with that kind of thing so you might have to say more.

God's word is clear >

"And all the people answered and said, 'His blood be on us and on our children.'" (Matthew 27:25)

These were including mothers and fathers who cursed their own selves and their own children with the blood of Christ. And so, God's word says so. Plus, later, Peter blames the ones who did that > Acts 2:22-24, with Acts 2:36, and Steven's sermon > Acts 7:51-57. These were speaking to the Jews who were guilty, not to all Jews. After all, Peter was a Jew.

So . . . I question what >

The whole "Jews cursed themselves" narrative is unhelpful, has worked like poison in Christian hearts, and should be discarded.

God knew how wrong people would misrepresent this and blame the Jews in general for the crucifixion of Christ. But, even so, God did not let evil people decide what He put in His word.

I have learned that if the Jewish mommies and daddies could do that, then any human in sin is capable of much more evil than he or she realizes. They are an object lesson for us to learn from, and humble ourselves . . . not to criticize them, nor to try to only cover that up. They are an example of what we are talking about in this thread, how a group of people can go along with what is wrong.

Likewise, any honorable person does not blame all Germans for Hitler's Germany and the atrocities against the Jews and others. But we use that in order to encourage ourselves that we ourselves don't ever give in to such a thing. We do not just cover it up in order to protect Germans

 

[d taylor]

-
​

Well i will say one thing this virus sure has provided entertainment for everyone. From dancing nurses, to conspiracy theories, to political (left/right) debates, on and on. Well at least no one should be complaining of being bored.

 

[Robban]

There's an interesting theory going around by Dr Mattias Desmet, which he shares in the video below. In a nutshell, the same "psychosis" that overtook 1930s Germany is overtaking the world now with regard to Covid Vaxes & Passes. Do you agree with him? Why or why not? Especially with regard to giving up one's principles & morals for the sake of the group.

MASS FORMATION PSYCHOSIS

The more I see reports like the one below, the more I tend to think he's on to something.

Teachers in Germany have Resorted to Humiliating Unvaxxed Students to Encourage them to get the Jab

Edit: The video I meant to post with Dr Desmet is here:

https://rokfin.com/stream/9705/Foreign-Agents-10--Covid-and-Mass-Hypnosis

I found it difficult to catch what he was saying,

it should have an undertext to be able to keep up.

I tried three times with concentration but had to drop it after twenty minutes.

 

[Rachel20]

-
​

Well i will say one thing this virus sure has provided entertainment for everyone. From dancing nurses, to conspiracy theories, to political (left/right) debates, on and on. Well at least no one should be complaining of being bored.

For me, the positive was transitioning to work from home since it coincided with elderly parent becoming bedridden and needing my care. TBH it seems as if the Lord even staved off many of her health issues until I could be there, as they hit her one after the other after that.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I think my main concern was framing the phenomenon in such a way that could seem to absolve individuals of culpability. Take this line from the first link:

These hypnotized by this process are unable to recognize the lies and misrepresentations they are being bombarded with on a daily basis, and actively attack anyone who has the temerity to share information with them which contradicts the propaganda that they have come to embrace

If I am unable to recognize the lies and misrepresentations I'm bombarded with, am I culpable for reacting as if they are true?

If we take your example of the drug addict, there is a moment when she knows her choice to use the 1st time could lead down a nasty road. Maybe she doesn't know it by experience, but she knows from the plethora of examples out there that it often turns out bad. So, she goes forward with some culpability in so far as she knows that much.

How might that play out for someone buying into propaganda? I think we have a constant responsibility to be critical. I worry (only slightly) that a hypothesis such as this one, mass hypnosis, doesn't take into account the fact we should always come to truth claims with some tendency to consider them critically. If I've been hypnotized by large narratives, I've essentially gotten lazy in my duty to secure some sense of truth as far as I am able. That's really what amazes me. People lay down and accept narratives mostly, I think, because they meet some need not necessarily related to truth, which is a point where I agree with the article.

If one has never been encouraged to think critically one may not even understand what critical thinking is and one might very well falsely believe that critical thinking means cherry picking factual information that reinforces their narratives and rejecting, as misinformation, any factual information that contradicts their narrative. Especially a narrative that they have been conditioned to believe or have been indoctrinated into while they are young and impressionable. Children aren't born with the natural capacity to utilize the skills needed to think critically, so if they are never taught how to do so or do not discover how to do so on their own because questioning the narrative brings severe negative consequences, they will probably not venture into the practice of doing so as they mature.

 

[Rachel20]

If one has never been encouraged to think critically one may not even understand what critical thinking is and one might very well falsely believe that critical thinking means cherry picking factual information that reinforces their narratives and rejecting, as misinformation, any factual information that contradicts their narrative. Especially a narrative that they have been conditioned to believe or have been indoctrinated into while they are young and impressionable. Children aren't born with the natural capacity to utilize the skills needed to think critically, so if they are never taught how to do so or do not discover how to do so on their own because questioning the narrative brings severe negative consequences, they will probably not venture into the practice of doing so as they mature.

I think one thing is clear from scripture - that if you do something that is sin, you are guilty even if you are completely ignorant! But ignorance is a mitigating factor that effects the penalty. Maybe not in our system where "ignorance is no excuse of the law", but in the Lords righteous judgement. With your example of those who crucified the Lord, he asks the Father to forgive them because "they know not what they do". They are still guilty or there would be no need for forgiveness. I see the same thing in John 9:41 and other passages dealing with more being required of those who have more [light].

Edit: Sorry, I thought was responding to @com7fy8 post.

 

[public hermit]

God knew how wrong people would misrepresent this and blame the Jews in general for the crucifixion of Christ. But, even so, God did not let evil people decide what He put in His word.

I hear what you're saying. God let's people do all kinds of evil things, including blaming the Jews for the death of Christ instead of recognizing, as you point out, that anyone could be capable of the same. What about the Romans? Aren't they Christ-killers? And yet, there is no history of a prejudice against Italians for having ancestors that contributed to his death. That is part of why bringing up that particular passage as an explanation for why people fall into some mass delusion is unhelpful. At least, that's my position. Look, I'm not blaming the scriptures. I'm blaming Christians throughout history and today, who should know better. As far as I can tell, Christian faith claims that no one is held accountable for what someone else did. We each have to give an account for ourselves.

To the point, it seems your passages are an attempt to show that evil ways get passed down, presumably on account of a curse. I'm up for correction if that's not the case. My point is that no curse is necessary for that. All it takes is a good mix of laziness, selfishness, and indifference. Likewise, no curse can compel me to believe anything uncritically. Make any truth claim you like, you and I can examine it and do our level best. Perhaps after doing our level best, our obligation is fulfilled. But buying some line of propaganda is not necessary. Each generation, each person has a responsibility. It does not help to point at those who came before us as the cause. The cause is in our own hearts; no hypnosis, or generational sin, or systemic evil is going to absolve us of being responsible for what we hold uncritically in our own hearts, even if it's a lie we thought was true.

 

[com7fy8]

It seems an interviewer of Doctor Desmet is saying that, in overreacting, people can misunderstand things and be too quick to believe whatever they are told that calls for suspicion and criticism.

Doctor Desmet is saying, the anxiety about COVID can be more harmful, than the COVID disease can be. He found the danger of COVID was overestimated.

Of course, I think of this > weather forecasts about storms seem to often predict worse than what actually happens. I consider this could be on purpose, so they don't get blamed if things are more hurtful than was predicted. They maybe "err on the side of caution".

But, for that matter, yes ones can use misrepresentation as a control measure, on purpose.

Dr. Desmet seems to say the damage caused by measures can be a major problem . . . including how many will die because of the measures.

I think that people's own character has a lot to do with how they handle a problem. Their character has them ready to make things worse, or to do what is good. And in case people on both sides of an argument or issue are making things worse . . . then both sides of an issue can be right about how the other side is somehow wrong

Doctor Desmet seems to be saying that even before the pandemic, many people already were feeling socially disconnected. There was a "lack of social bond."

And there was a "lack of meaning making." Things of their lives seemed meaningless and they felt they lacked sense in their lives.

Statistics to him showed how many people were not satisfied with their jobs.

So, I think of this > how workers in Germany could join with Hitler because they were not being paid and treated well, I understand. But Doctor Desmet is saying many people had jobs but not satisfaction. So, may be we could say they feel they are not getting "paid" the meaning and satisfaction they should get, even right while they are getting money, perhaps. So, I see a point, of how such people could be drawn into some psychotic cause.

They have anxiety about not getting their happiness, if not about how much money they are getting.

And ones can go into cults, it seems, because of their problems with social disconnection and dissatisfaction; and I think a trademark of cults can be how they can point their finger at some "enemy", so attention is tricked away from people seeing how their own cult leaders are so wrong . . . and how they themselves need real and deep correction. So, I see how Doctor Desmet could mean that such deep trouble in so many people helped pave the way for a bad way to react to the pandemic . . . bad by authorities and also bad by ones under authority. Ones at all levels of society could be wrong, plus in denial about this.

So, the first wise thing to do would be to refuse to trust anxiety and how it would have us seeing and doing things. And first submit to Jesus so we are with Him in His love's "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30) And then discover how He has us seeing things in His peace. And obey how Jesus rules us in His peace, to do what He knows is good. He is our Creator, very creative in love

 

[Rachel20]

I found it difficult to catch what he was saying,

it should have an undertext to be able to keep up.

I tried three times with concentration but had to drop it after twenty minutes.

I'll post a detailed summary - but may take a bit of time as I want to get it right.

 

[com7fy8]

What about the Romans?

Yes. And ones well know how Pilate a Roman went along with it.

Also, if Jesus died for our sins, I now understand that we also have been guilty of the torture and hate and murder of Jesus on the cross. He was there because of our sins, included.

So, in case ones are mainly pointing at the Jews, we could be in denial about how we ourselves have been guilty of the murder of Jesus on the cross.

But Jesus wants forgiveness . . . for all. Love "hopes all things" > in 1 Corinthians 13:7.

But through whom did all this get started? Through Adam!! But I say any of us could have done the same thing. If he was created perfectly by God, and he once perfectly made could give in . . . who am I to look down on him . . . or anyone . . . and say I have been any better?

 

[Rachel20]

Children aren't born with the natural capacity to utilize the skills needed to think critically, so if they are never taught how to do so or do not discover how to do so on their own because questioning the narrative brings severe negative consequences, they will probably not venture into the practice of doing so as they mature.

Yes, it's a skill that must be learned. That's why I'm appalled at the censorship of certain speakers on university campuses of all places! As a society, we all have a vested interest in teaching critical thinking, through presentation of all sides of the argument.

 

[Robban]

I'll post a detailed summary - but may take a bit of time as I want to get it right.

Thank you.

 

[public hermit]

If one has never been encouraged to think critically one may not even understand what critical thinking is and one might very well falsely believe that critical thinking means cherry picking factual information that reinforces their narratives and rejecting, as misinformation, any factual information that contradicts their narrative. Especially a narrative that they have been conditioned to believe or have been indoctrinated into while they are young and impressionable. Children aren't born with the natural capacity to utilize the skills needed to think critically, so if they are never taught how to do so or do not discover how to do so on their own because questioning the narrative brings severe negative consequences, they will probably not venture into the practice of doing so as they mature.

That's a good point. Do you think there are adults who buy into large narratives and are unable to consider them critically? I don't want to create a caricature of what you're saying, but are there adults who cannot help but believe a certain line of explanation. If so, what is the reason? I am thinking even if there are some, they are not the majority. We go through this world and learn very quickly that some statements are true and accurate and some inaccurate and false. Isn't that experience enough to ensure we have a responsibility to figure out which is which?

And keep the OP in mind, we are talking about people who buy into narratives which often claim the truth was hidden, but now it's being revealed by this new, revelatory narrative. To accept these grand narratives one is already critical of another possibility.

 

[CuriousPagan]

I don't think I've ever read a sadder more incoherent pile of nonsense.

Also, why did you tack "moral decay" on the end of the thread title?

Insults are not debates.

 

[CuriousPagan]

Seventeen-year-old Washington female dies from heart attack weeks after receiving second Pfizer vaccination

Let's not pretend the vaccine is completely without risk, that's as delusional as claiming COVID doesn't exist. If people ate healthier and had better sanitation and hygiene practices this crap wouldn't be going on.