Mary

PeaceB · May 12, 2017

W2L said:
Dont get me wrong, im not here to bash Catholics

Well that statement turned out to be a load of bull. I pray to Mary because I want to, because I could not care less about your irrelevant opinions, and because there is not a thing you can do about it.

ChristianFromKazakhstan · May 12, 2017

Saint Beloved said:
But Jesus said let the dead bury their dead.

Absolutely. I was just explaining the root cause of such paganistic worship.

shioks · May 12, 2017

Out of curiosity, when did the prayer to Mary or Rosary began? Since the 12 apostles era or 4th century? If ain't from 12 apostles era, then wouldn't it be man made practices?

ChristianFromKazakhstan · May 12, 2017

PeaceB said:
Well that statement turned out to be a load of bull. I pray to Mary because I want to, because I could not care less about your irrelevant opinions, and because there is not a thing you can do about it.

She's a human being. You have to pray to God only and only. We must worship the Creator, not the creation. One can pray to a tree, to a lion, to the sun or to the rain in the same manner.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · May 12, 2017

PeaceB said:
Well that statement turned out to be a load of bull. I pray to Mary because I want to, because I could not care less about your irrelevant opinions, and because there is not a thing you can do about it.

Figured you would at least have becuase you're a "Mary lover" somewhere in that comment I mean man... you went off.

I have a friend who's mom won't even let him go to a church outside the catholic church cause she loves Mary so much... she slammed open his door one time when she found out we were talking about a different church he's been going to, and is now threatening to kick him out if he doesn't stick with their tradition.

Look I have nothing against the catholic church... I believe people can be saved at any church...but there are certain things in that faith that are just flat out off and that's one of them. This obsession over the mother of JESUS, and i've seen people become more obsessed with her then JESUS as a result... even respect her more.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · May 12, 2017

shioks said:
Out of curiosity, when did the prayer to Mary or Rosary began? Since the 12 apostles era or 4th century? If ain't from 12 apostles era, then wouldn't it be man made practices?

it's from around the 4th century.

shioks · May 12, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
it's from around the 4th century.

If 4th century and the 12 apostles also didn't pray to/through Mary or practice Rosary, then we are looking at either pagan or man made practice along the way not scriptural or tradition.

Panevino · May 12, 2017

W2L said:
I dont get why Mary is prayed to. Dont get me wrong, im not here to bash Catholics, or to debate prayers. I just dont understand why we need Mary when we have the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Intercessor, the Teacher, the Lamp for our feet, and the Light of the world.

Respectfully, this sets up a false dichotomy.
Marys intercession can't and doesn't bypass/replace the Holy Spirit or Jesus.
That's not what Catholics teach.

Consider the words of the Hail Mary slowly(it seeks her prayers and highlights Jesus 3 times , and boldly claims His divinity)

Philip_B · May 13, 2017

W2L said:
You make it sound so innocent, however Mary is not the Holy Spirit, Nor was she sent to intercede for us. Our prayers should always be directed to the Lord our God. Is that not enough? God is supposed to be glorified in all things.

Its not just that however. Its the queen of heaven thing too. If there is such a thing as Heavens queen, then its the Church who is queen, not Mary. Mary again is taken from her rightful place and is replacing the Church as queen. God gets glory for everything. His Church is also His body. Eve was taken from Adam, not adam taken from Eve. So it is with the Church. The great mystery of the Church Paul spoke of. They shall be one flesh. Who? Mary and Christ? No! the Church and Christ.

W2L said:
I dont get why Mary is prayed to. Dont get me wrong, im not here to bash Catholics, or to debate prayers. I just dont understand why we need Mary when we have the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Intercessor, the Teacher, the Lamp for our feet, and the Light of the world.

Your response to my post calls me to question the genuineness of the original post.

Perhaps the issue has to do with how you understand prayer. Worship and Adoration are but one part of prayer, and there was no suggestion in my post of anything that would constitute worship or adoration, nor did I raise the matter of the Queen of Heaven. I am glad you are not here to bash Catholics or debate prayers. It would be good of the tenor of the debate reflected that.

throughfiierytrial · May 13, 2017

W2L said:
The argument is valid and i think the question needs asked. The problem we have is that in Catholicism, Mary is taking a place where God alone has already supplied our needs via the Holy Spirit, who is inside Gods children. Its like saying the Holy Spirits intercession for us in prayer is not good enough, so we need Mary to intercede as well. God never commanded this prayer and it contradicts the Word.

I'd say we can go even further and point out that Jesus...the only perfect, spotless Lamb of God became the only acceptable sacrifice in the Father's eyes. This act was carried out not only to cleanse us from our sins, but to take away the veil which stood between us and God...He alone is intercessor...He alone has gained that glory and God does not share His glory with another says the Bible. Hebrews makes this all much clearer for us...
Hebrews 2:10:
In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered.
Hebrews 2:17-18:
For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Hebrews 4:14-16:
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

...freedom to pray, "Abba Father" was won through Christ's work on the cross. To insert Mary...though blessed above all women...is not a clear understanding of what Christ won for us on the cross. God does not share His glory with another.

GingerBeer · May 13, 2017

W2L said:
I just dont understand why we need Mary when we have the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Intercessor, the Teacher, the Lamp for our feet, and the Light of the world.

When you ask for prayers from your family, friends, or people on Christian Forums do you NEED their prayers?

ripple the car · May 13, 2017

W2L said:
I dont get why Mary is prayed to. Dont get me wrong, im not here to bash Catholics, or to debate prayers. I just dont understand why we need Mary when we have the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Intercessor, the Teacher, the Lamp for our feet, and the Light of the world.

Hey, W2L. That's the best question about Mary that anyone could ask.

So.... She is our Mother. Spiritually. She gave birth physically to Christ, and in a sense, her faith gave birth to our future faith in Christ. Without Mary, there is no Messiah.

She is also truly, intrinsically, full of grace. Not just for her sake, but for all of us who would later believe, and trust in Christ.

And if we dare to trust her and turn our face towards her, Mary will help us to follow Christ, too.

Sam91 · May 13, 2017

There is absolutely no scriptural evidence to pray to anyone other than God. The whole OT reiterates that doing so is idolatry.

Jesus Himself didn't elevate her. Matthew 12:46-50.

However, he still made sure she was to be taken care of when he was crucified John 19:26

Sam91 · May 13, 2017

hengesthorsa said:
They do indeed. And if you erase those Churches and their roots then you have no Christianity.

You have left Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit. Also, scripture. What you do away with is man made doctrine.

GreekOrthodox · May 13, 2017

shioks said:
Out of curiosity, when did the prayer to Mary or Rosary began? Since the 12 apostles era or 4th century? If ain't from 12 apostles era, then wouldn't it be man made practices?

Some of the earliest prayers asking for the dead to pray for us, dates in the late second century, on the catacombs paintings. Early Evidence for the Veneration of the Saints - Orthodox Reformed Bridge

S.O.J.I.A. · May 13, 2017

they believe that scripture tells them to do it or at least that the Word doesn't prohibit them from doing it. the latter would allow for us to do all sorts of things, however, and say that the LORD would approve of such practice for His worship.

shioks · May 13, 2017

Gracia Singh said:
Hey, W2L. That's the best question about Mary that anyone could ask.

So.... She is our Mother. Spiritually. She gave birth physically to Christ, and in a sense, her faith gave birth to our future faith in Christ. Without Mary, there is no Messiah.

She is also truly, intrinsically, full of grace. Not just for her sake, but for all of us who would later believe, and trust in Christ.

And if we dare to trust her and turn our face towards her, Mary will help us to follow Christ, too.

It could be other person other than Mary. She is just a vehicle for Jesus to be born in human flesh. So, we can't be saying without Mary there is no Messiah. You are basically suggesting there is Messiah because of Mary not there is Mary because of Messiah. It would literally means Messiah was created because of Mary. Christ is in existence before Mary not the other way round.

PeaceB · May 13, 2017

ChristianFromKazakhstan said:
You have to pray to God only and only.

False.

One can pray to a tree, to a lion, to the sun or to the rain in the same manner.

False.

PeaceB · May 13, 2017

but there are certain things in that faith that are just flat out off and that's one of them.

False.

Saint Beloved · May 13, 2017

PeaceB said:
False.

False.

Why?

Mary

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Newbie

Bread is Blessed & Broken Wine is Blessed & Poured

Truth-Lover

Cool and refreshing with a kick!

Newbie

Child of the Living God

Child of the Living God

Psalti Chrysostom

Dynamic UNO

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency