Mary

[OrthodoxyUSA]

deu58,

Are you a bigot?

big·ot ([font=verdana, sans-serif] P [/font]) Pronunciation Key (b

g

t)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me....

 

[deu58]

Hello Katherine

The only way that Mary is not the mother of His divine nature is if He was not divine until after He was born. Is this what you believe? If you do, then you believe in the heresy of Nestorianism.

You might want to think about all the implications of the Son of God becoming incarnate. There are many people who give lip service to saying they believe it but don't really seem to understand it or its implications. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God.

And what was it that made him 100% divine? The divine nature of Mary or the divine nature of God his Father? She is his mother and that is all, She did not procreate Jesus all by herself, No mother in history has ever done so, A child is a combination of the father and the mother, Always, Certain things are inherited from the mother and certain things are inherited from the father, It is the father of Jesus who alone is responsible for his divine nature,

Jesus inherited his humanity from Mary his mother and his divinity form God his father,

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[deu58]

deu58,

Are you a bigot?

big·ot ([font=verdana, sans-serif] P [/font]) Pronunciation Key (b

g

t)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me....

By your definition we are all bigots so welcome to the club,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[ScottBot]

Hello Katherine


And what was it that made him 100% divine? The divine nature of Mary or the divine nature of God his Father? She is his mother and that is all, She did not procreate Jesus all by herself, No mother in history has ever done so, A child is a combination of the father and the mother, Always, Certain things are inherited from the mother and certain things are inherited from the father, It is the father of Jesus who alone is responsible for his divine nature,

Jesus inherited his humanity from Mary his mother and his divinity form God his father,

yours in Christ
deu58

You are still dodging the point. Is Jesus God? If so, and Mary is His mother, then it is a simple observable fact that Mary is the mother of God. It does not mean that Jesus derives His power from her, and it does not mean that Mary predates God. I simply means that Mary is the biological mother of the Incarnate God, Jesus Christ.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

By your definition we are all bigots so welcome to the club,

yours in Christ
deu 58

But I'm not intolerant of those who differ.....

nor are most here....

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me....

 

[deu58]

Hi scott_lafrance

You are still dodging the point. Is Jesus God? If so, and Mary is His mother, then it is a simple observable fact that Mary is the mother of God. It does not mean that Jesus derives His power from her, and it does not mean that Mary predates God. I simply means that Mary is the biological mother of the Incarnate God, Jesus Christ.

I have no problem agreeing with your position on this, But to me that is not what she seems to be saying, To me she appears to be saying that Mary is responsible for him possesing a divine nature,

The only way that Mary is not the mother of His divine nature is if He was not divine until after He was born

That I can not agree with, It is God alone who is responsible for his divine nature

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Axion]

We have been called Bigots, Gnostcs, which is the same as a heretic, and thinly veiled accuations of not being Christians,

If you hold to nestorianism, or Gnosticism you are not a Christian by definition.

 

[deu58]

Hello orthodoxusa

But I'm not intolerant of those who differ.....

nor are most here....

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me....

You have no idea of what I am or what I am not,

Yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Oblio]

She is his mother and that is all,

Thank you. And He is God.

She did not procreate Jesus all by herself, No mother in history has ever done so,

Straw. No one is claiming such.

A child is a combination of the father and the mother, Always, Certain things are inherited from the mother and certain things are inherited from the father, It is the father of Jesus who alone is responsible for his divine nature,

I am responsible for my daughter's blue eyes, but my wife is the mother of all of her, including her eyes. Everything that my daughter inheritied from me was born by her mother: her eyes, her curved in little finger, that 'contemplative expression' that everyone recognizes as 'mine'.

 

[Oblio]

That I can not agree with, It is God alone who is responsible for his divine nature

Do you know what a mother is ? You seem to think that a mother creates her child. Scripture says otherwise.

 

[deu58]

Hi Axion

If you hold to nestorianism, or Gnosticism you are not a Christian by definition.

Ac 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This is primary requisite for salvation, I do not go around judging who is and who is not saved, I'll leave that to more tolerant people like you and Orthdoxusa,

I will debate and judge doctrines all day long but I will not judge any person who claims the name of Jesus Christ as their personal savior, That includes SDA's Mormons, Messianics, Jehovahs Witnesses etc, I disagree with all the doctrinal positions held by these groups, But it is not my place to judge who is saved and who is not,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[GenemZ]

I'm sorry, but as a self-admitted Nestorian and Gnostic heretic - see post 81 , there is no way that your interpretation of what the bible tells us is of any value at all - other than as something to avoid at all costs!

All you are doing is what politicians try to do when they can not refute their opponent, They resort to unfounded name calling. I know what Nestorianism is. I am not saying the same things. But, I think that does not matter to you. You now need a means to verbally attack the one who has refuted you, but you can not really counter-refute without attacking what you do not understand.

I have never said Jesus did not have a body (which is what the gnostics really said.) And, as for Nestorius? Only the same church that rejected the likes of Luther, Huss, Calvin, Zwingly, and Wycliff, added Nestorian to their list of intolerances towards anyone who showed the flaws in the doctrines of the RCC. Its not theology with them. Its a power ploy.

I notice you have not rescinded this statement or tried to defend it. Nor have you withdrawn or defended your other outrageous declaration that Jesus was God incarnate only in the same manner as the burning bush was God! Or your statement that God the Son did not die on the cross!

Matthew 23:9 niv
"And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven."

You are in no position to call the kettle black. What Jesus commanded in Mathew 23:9, was a very simple command. As simple as, "Do not eat of that tree." Yet, here you stand there accusing me of something that requires depth to understand? Yet, a very simple one, your church defies? You call on Mary in prayer? Yet, Jesus told us that we are to pray to the Father in his Name? OK..... I guess that qualifies you to call me a heretic.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[deu58]

Hi Oblio

am responsible for my daughter's blue eyes, but my wife is the mother of all of her, including her eyes. Everything that my daughter inheritied from me was born by her mother: her eyes, her curved in little finger, that 'contemplative expression' that everyone recognizes as 'mine'.

Seems to me that you are just trying to play with semantics here. You are the father of all of her to.

With out you she would not exist,

Do you know what a mother is ? You seem to think that a mother creates her child. Scripture says otherwise.

Yes I do know what a mother is, In fact I actually have one of my own. No I did not say that a mother creates a child by herself. I said that is what Katherine apperars to be saying and I disagree with it,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[prodromos]

What people seem to forget is that this whole question is not about Mary but about Christ and the truth of the incarnation. By calling Mary the "mother of God" we are not elevating Mary but declaring the truth that God did indeed become man. When Nestorius refused to call Mary the mother of God, but instead the mother of Christ, he unwittingly taught that Christ was one person and God the Son was another. So instead of teaching as the evangelist Saint John that "the Word became flesh", he taught that "the Word was joined to flesh but did not become flesh". This is another gospel which is contrary to that taught by the Apostles and I hope we all know what we are to do if someone, even an angel, comes to us teaching another gospel.

If the Son of God truly became flesh, then it is necessary to recognise that Mary was truly His mother. This does not mean that Mary created Jesus or that there was ever a time when the Son of God was not. It simply means that the person that Mary carried within her womb, gave birth to, and raised through childhood, was none other than God the Son. She was not His mother before then, but she has never ceased to be His mother since.

God the Son was begotten of God the Father outside of time without a mother.
God the Son was begotten of Mary His mother within time without a father.

John.

 

[GenemZ]

A mother is mother to all that her child is. If Jesus was divine at His conception and birth, then she is the mother of His divinity as well. Do you understand that a mother is mother to all of her child and not just the parts that come from her? Also, she was not just a vessel. His human nature, will, and flesh came from her. The only way that Mary is not the mother of His divine nature is if He was not divine until after He was born. Is this what you believe? If you do, then you believe in the heresy of Nestorianism.

Tell me something? The church that declared Nestorius a heretic? Is it not the same church that declared Luther a heretic? Declared Calvin a heretic? Captured John Huss for preaching grace, and burned him at the stake? Captured Wycliff for publishing a Bible in the language of the people, and had him put to death? Are we speaking of the same church that declared Nestorius a heretic? The same church that later on organized the Great Inquisition, having millions killed if they refused to convert to their religion?

The more I think about it..... the more I realize what was condemning Nestorius may have been a reason to think he was correct.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[deu58]

Hi Genez

You are in no position to call the kettle black. What Jesus commanded in Mathew 23:9, was a very simple command. As simple as, "Do not eat of that tree." Yet, here you stand there accusing me of something that requires depth to understand? Yet, a very simple one, your church defies? You call on Mary in prayer? Yet, Jesus told us that we are to pray to the Father in his Name? OK..... I guess that qualifies you to call me a heretic.

Very well said, I totally agree

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[deu58]

Hi Prodomos

What people seem to forget is that this whole question is not about Mary but about Christ and the truth of the incarnation. By calling Mary the "mother of God" we are not elevating Mary but declaring the truth that God did indeed become man.

Yes this is true, Even we Protestants say she is the mother of God, But when you make images and icons of her then kneel before them and pray to her for no matter what reason then you have elevated her status to something more than just the mother of God,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[ScottBot]

Tell me something? The church that declared Nestorius a heretic? Is it not the same church that declared Luther a heretic? Declared Calvin a heretic? Captured John Huss for preaching grace, and burned him at the stake? Captured Wycliff for publishing a Bible in the language of the people, and had him put to death? Are we speaking of the same church that declared Nestorius a heretic? The same church that later on organized the Great Inquisition, having millions killed if they refused to convert to their religion?

The more I think about it..... the more I realize what was condemning Nestorius may have been a reason to think he was correct.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

There is no credible historical evidence to substantiate the claim that the Catholic Church (not the Orthodox Church) did any of these things. I recommend you find a more credible source of information.

 

[prodromos]

Tell me something? The church that declared Nestorius a heretic? Is it not the same church that declared Luther a heretic? Declared Calvin a heretic? Captured John Huss for preaching grace, and burned him at the stake? Captured Wycliff for publishing a Bible in the language of the people, and had him put to death? Are we speaking of the same church that declared Nestorius a heretic? The same church that later on organized the Great Inquisition, having millions killed if they refused to convert to their religion?

Well the Orthodox churches answer to this would be no (and there were not millions of people living in Europe at the time of the inquisition. Please refrain from posting such nonsense in the future)

John.

 

[deu58]

Hello scott_lafrance

There is no credible historical evidence to substantiate the claim that the Catholic Church (not the Orthodox Church) did any of these things. I recommend you find a more credible source of information.

By "credible information" do you mean the Catholic Church?? That would kind of be like going to the Aryans Nations for information regarding the truth of the Holocaust,

yours in Christ
deu 58