Mary and Joseph

[ScottBot]

"proper" meaning "RCC approved?"

RCC, Orthodox, and Anglican (for the most part).

 

[Uphill Battle]

right. So basically put, "proper" interpretation is based on what the denomination holds in the first place.

 

[ScottBot]

right. So basically put, "proper" interpretation is based on what the denomination holds in the first place.

Historically speaking, yes.

 

[Uphill Battle]

fair enough.

I just can't fathom that. To me, IMHO it would feel like being spoonfed, instead of looking in to the matter objectively.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

You are all entitled to YOUR OWN opinion as I am mine. I don't give a rip what your denomination has taught you on this. And that is what lens you look at it through. That is fine. If that does it for you...good. BUT I am NOT wrong believing the way I do. Sorry. I could be just as mean and say YOU ARE WRONG...but you have your believe, I have mine.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

you think?

Straighforward Exegeis of all the passages regarding the "Brothers and Sisters" of Christ leads one to believe they are exactly that, when examined apart from Institutional teachings.

That, coupled with the complete absence of any such teaching until approximately 300 AD, is IMHO quite compelling. (also, the various references AFTER that that refute PV.

Actually, that is incorrect. The term translated "brother" or "brethren" is adelphos, which is used quite loosely and interchangeably to refer to bother of the flesh or brother in the Lord. Furthermore, a cousin in the ancient wold was considered a brother just as much as those who were born of the same two parents.

So, in point of fact, the "institutional" teaching of great suspect is the modernist English American Protestant reading of the scriptres in question.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Actually, that is incorrect. The term translated "brother" or "brethren" is adelphos, which is used quite loosely and interchangeably to refer to bother of the flesh or brother in the Lord. Furthermore, a cousin in the ancient wold was considered a brother just as much as those who were born of the same two parents.

So, in point of fact, the "institutional" teaching of great suspect is the modernist English American Protestant reading of the scriptres in question.

except that in Greek there IS a word for cousin.

It's spurious to believe they would not use it.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

why do they differenciate Mary and Elizabeth as cousins...but not brothers/cousins for men? Some have told me they didn't have a word for brother/cousin ( I can't remember which), but when I questioned why they mention cousins with Mary and Elizabeth...the word was there.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

LOL, great minds think alike.....

 

[Latreia]

Latreia, he's contrasting 1st century practice with 21st century western law.

What we consider children were regularly married, and had children, in 1st century.

Typically, the man was a good degree older than the woman in these instances.

He is not disrespecting Mary and Joseph to state this.

Then you agree he is right to call Joseph a pedophile and Mary, his wife, a victim of child molestation.

Strange that you can explain the point without using abnormal and criminal accusations.

I wholeheartedly agree, Bro.

I've just seen the apologetic offered over and over that it has "always been believed" and that in itself is just reason to consider it true.

right. So basically put, "proper" interpretation is based on what the denomination holds in the first place.

fair enough.

I just can't fathom that. To me, IMHO it would feel like being spoonfed, instead of looking in to the matter objectively.

Everybody, comfort Uphill and reassure him he never has to become a Catholic or Orthodox.

Then maybe, just maybe we shall all be allowed to follow our paths to God as was intended, at the Lord's calling.

Saying one does not agree is not at all the same as making ugly, degrading accusations. Or....???????

 

[Uphill Battle]

Then you agree he is right to call Joseph a pedophile and Mary, his wife, a victim of child molestation.

Strange that you can explain the point without using abnormal and criminal accusations.

Latreia, that was never stated by anyone! It was said that the practices of the 1st century palestine would be considered illegal, and paeodphillia here. In that, it is correct, our laws in 21st century western culture are FAR removed from what they were in Judea at the time of Christ.

Everybody, comfort Uphill and reassure him he never has to become a Catholic or Orthodox.

Then maybe, just maybe we shall all be allowed to follow our paths to God as was intended, at the Lord's calling.

Saying one does not agree is not at all the same as making ugly, degrading accusations. Or....???????

I have a sincere question, Latreia.... If debate of any nature disturbs you so much, why are you frequenting the debate area? You have posted a number of times condemning my discussions with others as unchristianlike, degrading, etc... yet I have said nothing overtly offensive. I pursue truth, not holy stick-your-fingers-in-your-ears-and-all-pretend-we-are-unified thinking. I'd love it if we were, but we are not.

 

[Latreia]

Everyone's entitled to an opinion.

I'd contend yours applies to an exceptional minority and not the majority of Christians.

And reality is reality, and there is no need to mollify things with pretty words ->

If Mary and Joseph were around today in the US they'd be engaged in pedophilia.

A true statement.

So there you are. Leaving no doubt unturned.

The most sacred couple of the Christian faith.

Forgive, oh Lord, our errors most base and thankless.

Latreia, that was never stated by anyone! It was said that the practices of the 1st century palestine would be considered illegal, and paeodphillia here. In that, it is correct, our laws in 21st century western culture are FAR removed from what they were in Judea at the time of Christ..

Such a comparison was completely uncalled for in this thread. The OP was simply about the ages of Joseph and Mary, and the other posts were efforts simply to determine their ages. It was offensive and OT to comment that their ages immediately indicates sexual abuse of a child.

If a member choses to use a word like pedophile, he should be prepared to see that usage blasphemous.
Using the ruse of mentioning it as a comparison of time and cultures is disingenuous and insulting to the intellegence, as well as, the sacred religious faith of other Christians members, who have to the right to be represented on CF.

The clear implication is that if Joseph were regarded as a pedophile today, he should be regarded as one then.
Other men who commited child molestations in history are labeled pedophiles, regardless of the time.

BTW, how many Christians today actually have such thoughts about Joseph and Mary when they are celebrating Christmas with Nativity Scenes?

The suggesting of such a thing is, in fact, ugly. And that is simply not called for, even if you wish to not only allow it, but defend it.

I have a sincere question, Latreia.... If debate of any nature disturbs you so much, why are you frequenting the debate area? You have posted a number of times condemning my discussions with others as unchristianlike, degrading, etc... yet I have said nothing overtly offensive. I pursue truth, not holy stick-your-fingers-in-your-ears-and-all-pretend-we-are-unified thinking. I'd love it if we were, but we are not.

Debate, debate, is that your golden rule? Is that your major apologetic rationale for attacking Catholicism, Christianity, and the concept of God?

BTW, in case you didn't notice, your last two sentences look very, very odd next to each other. It reflects a recent staff theme where gentle Christians are distained by sacchrine "Kum bah yah" attitudes, that many young Christians rebuke others for in no uncertain terms.

Yet all members are chastised constantly for not being careful not to offend others by the least breath of ill-chosen words.

If, however, you are officially driving me out of a Christians Only discussion area, I think you should do it for all to see.

It seems the poster above made one wrong statement: that I am entitled to my opinion...

 

[ArnautDaniel]

Latreia, that was never stated by anyone! It was said that the practices of the 1st century palestine would be considered illegal, and paeodphillia here. In that, it is correct, our laws in 21st century western culture are FAR removed from what they were in Judea at the time of Christ.

The question is whether Latreia is disagreeing with likely ages of Mary and Joseph, or merely with the language used.

I'm guessing Latreia would hold that when something is "sacred" one is not allowed to use certain unpleasant (whether or not it is accurate) language regarding it.

This is a question of what one considers "decorum".

I haven't seen Latreie disagree with the facts of the matter.

Unless I'm misunderstanding things....

 

[IamAdopted]

Such a comparison was completely uncalled for in this thread. The OP was simply about the ages of Joseph and Mary, and the other posts were efforts simply to determine their ages. It was offensive and OT to comment that their ages immediately indicates sexual abuse of a child.

If a member choses to use a word like pedophile, he should be prepared to see that usage blasphemous.
Using the ruse of mentioning it as a comparison of time and cultures is disingenuous and insulting to the intellegence, as well as, the sacred religious faith of other Christians members, who have to the right to be represented on CF.

The clear implication is that if Joseph were regarded as a pedophile today, he should be regarded as one then.
Other men who commited child molestations in history are labeled pedophiles, regardless of the time.

BTW, how many Christians today actually have such thoughts about Joseph and Mary when they are celebrating Christmas with Nativity Scenes?

The suggesting of such a thing is, in fact, ugly. And that is simply not called for, even if you wish to not only allow it, but defend it.




Debate, debate, is that your golden rule? Is that your major apologetic rationale for attacking Catholicism, Christianity, and the concept of God?

BTW, in case you didn't notice, your last two sentences look very, very odd next to each other. It reflects a recent staff theme where gentle Christians are distained by sacchrine "Kum bah yah" attitudes, that many young Christians rebuke others for in no uncertain terms.

Yet all members are chastised constantly for not being careful not to offend others by the least breath of ill-chosen words.

If, however, you are officially driving me out of a Christians Only discussion area, I think you should do it for all to see.

It seems the poster above made one wrong statement: that I am entitled to my opinion...

Depends on what end of the stick your on really.. I get quite offended when CC say some of the things they do against the written word of My LORD.. So Like I said it really depends on which end of the stick you are on..

 

[Latreia]

The question is whether Latreia is disagreeing with likely ages of Mary and Joseph, or merely with the language used.

I'm guessing Latreia would hold that when something is "sacred" one is not allowed to use certain unpleasant (whether or not it is accurate) language regarding it.

This is a question of what one considers "decorum".

I haven't seen Latreie disagree with the facts of the matter.

Unless I'm misunderstanding things....

When does accuracy depend upon the abuse of language and inconsideration of others?

I thought this thread was about the consideration of the possible ages of Joseph and Mary. Reading how old others thought they were and why did they think that.
Bringing child molestation into it was simply careless and irrelevent.

Depends on what end of the stick your on really.. I get quite offended when CC say some of the things they do against the written word of My LORD.. So Like I said it really depends on which end of the stick you are on..

Confession here: it is beyond my mental capacity to envision any Christian on the end of a stick. Does this means that those on the ends of those sticks should use them to beat each other into the ground?

And I did not realize this forum had been created so members who are offended by those of the Catholic Church have a proper place to air that disgust.

 

[ArnautDaniel]

When does accuracy depend upon the abuse of language and inconsideration of others?

I thought this thread was about the consideration of the possible ages of Joseph and Mary. Reading how old others thought they were and why did they think that.
Bringing child molestation into it was simply careless and irrelevent.



Confession here: it is beyond my mental capacity to envision any Christian on the end of a stick. Does this means that those on the ends of those sticks should use them to beat each other into the ground?

And I did not realize this forum had been created so members who are offended by those of the Catholic Church have a proper place to air that disgust.

I'll bear that in mind the next time I see Christians calling Muhammad a "pedophile".

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

oi, I am outta here. This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Latreia]

I'll bear that in mind the next time I see Christians calling Muhammad a "pedophile".

So, that is what that was all about!

You see, I knew it all along. How could you have known all the months I had spent in the Non-Christian Forum back in 2005?

I'm very glad to see you mention this, thus proving your motivation. Good for you!!!

 

[ScottBot]

fair enough.

I just can't fathom that. To me, IMHO it would feel like being spoonfed, instead of looking in to the matter objectively.

Who says I don't do that? I'd be a fool, though, to think that I can in the matter of a few short years, I could come to understand the idioms of Aramaic, Koine Greek, Hebrew, and Latin. Not to mention turn of the millenium Semitic culture of Palestine, the historical context of the period, with the implications of Roman government and its interaction with the Judean government, the culture of the Pharisees and the Saducees, the inner workings of the Law, etc...

The bible wasn't written in American English in the context of Western culture. Many of the forms of expression, means of dialog, implied meanings of words and phrases don't convey properly to 21st century American culture and language.

 

[Latreia]

The difference being Muhammeds wife in question was 9, not 13-14.

Please, please. Let the old sinner stay over in the non-Christian forum, where he belongs. This is not about that cruel false tyrant.

At least keep him away from the Blessed Virgin.

Remember why we are here in Christians Only and do not fall to those who would introduce that which does not belong.

AVO, please tell us more about Mary and Joseph.