Marsupial in arctic supports that man was on Pangaea.

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Empty posts and rotten attitude aside, maybe we could get some actual replies to the OP from you?

If you posted something worthwhile in the OP, then I'd respond with something that you would probably, maybe consider to be an 'actual' reply.

 

[essentialsaltes]

From the Paleocene to the Pleistocene is all our nature.

There are no Egyptians in the Paleocene, either. No people of any kind.

By the time we are able to have man and most creatures really leave remains, we are way up in the geo column near the top.

What?!? No dinosaurs are way up near the top. No mososaurs. Pterodactyls. And on and on. There are huge histories of animals leaving remains from the Precambrian to the Cretaceous.

 

[dad]

If you posted something worthwhile in the OP, then I'd respond with something that you would probably, maybe consider to be an 'actual' reply.

Good excuse.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Good excuse.

So... do you have anything?
He asks in vain hope....

 

[dad]

There are no Egyptians in the Paleocene, either. No people of any kind.

Correct. So the time frame from the Paleocene to the Pleistocene in real time is approx a century or so. Man and animals still lived quite a while after the nature change. Peleg lived some two hundred and thirty years or so, for example.

What?!? No dinosaurs are way up near the top. No mososaurs. Pterodactyls. And on and on. There are huge histories of animals leaving remains from the Precambrian to the Cretaceous.

Of course animals died and may started to be able to leave remains in this period. Fits like a glove.

Since people were tarting to leave remains and die so very fast compared to all of human history before this, places like Egypt were apparently quite concerned with burial, preserving remains, tombs, etc!

 

[dad]

So... do you have anything?
He asks in vain hope....

I have a request. Address issues and the topic, and lose the attitude.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I have a request. Address issues and the topic, and tuck in the little fangs.

Okay, I'll address an issue in the topic: You make an outrageous claim, based on sound science, that marsupials got to the Arctic because Noah's Ark landed on Pangaea, which later broke up around the time of the Tower of Babel.
Do you have any actual scientific evidence to back up this claim, and will you actually present this evidence?

 

[dad]

Okay, I'll address an issue in the topic: You make an outrageous claim, based on sound science, that marsupials got to the Arctic because Noah's Ark landed on Pangaea, which later broke up around the time of the Tower of Babel.
Do you have any actual scientific evidence to back up this claim, and will you actually present this evidence?

Since it was a surprise to the folks that found it not sure if you think science had scientific evidence to think it should be there? If so, post it. Since I have historical and scriptural evidences that the supercontinent broke recently, there is nothing surprising for me in the OP. My ideas fit evidence.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Since it was a surprise to the folks that found it not sure if you think science had scientific evidence to think it should be there? If so, post it. Since I have historical and scriptural evidences that the supercontinent broke recently, there is nothing surprising for me in the OP. My ideas fit evidence.

I'll ask again: Do you have any actual scientific evidence to back up this claim, and will you actually present this evidence?

I'm not asking for what you think, I'm not asking for your ideas. I'm not asking for your religious nonsense. I'm asking for actual evidence.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Correct. So the time frame from the Paleocene to the Pleistocene in real time is approx a century or so. Man and animals still lived quite a while after the nature change. Peleg lived some two hundred and thirty years or so, for example.

Again, this is just absurd. The Paleocene to the Pleistocene is a century? This is like saying there were champosaurs who only lived and died in the Roaring Twenties (but no people died among them), Megalodons only died in the 1950s (with no humans among them). And finally people start dying in the 1990s.

Since people were tarting to leave remains and die so very fast compared to all of human history before this, places like Egypt were apparently quite concerned with burial, preserving remains, tombs, etc!

Yes, but they were doing this preserving at times that correspond to what you're calling the Jurassic. The Pyramids (circa 2500 BCE) are not found in the Jurassic.

 

[dad]

I'll ask again: Do you have any actual scientific evidence to back up this claim, and will you actually present this evidence?

I'm not asking for what you think, I'm not asking for your ideas. I'm not asking for your religious nonsense. I'm asking for actual evidence.

They did find a marsupial in the arctic. How and when it got there are the issues. Do you have any scientific evidence to back up the claim that this nature existed in the past? If not, the radioactive decay dates are out the window.

 

[dad]

Again, this is just absurd. The Paleocene to the Pleistocene is a century? This is like saying there were champosaurs who only lived and died in the Roaring Twenties (but no people died among them), Megalodons only died in the 1950s (with no humans among them). And finally people start dying in the 1990s.

Well, show me something that lived and died in that period? Having some champosaurs die in the period doesn't help you at all. I notice that these alligator like creatures were found in the arctic. That goes to evidence that the area did change locations and climates in the precise period I mentioned. Not sure why you even mention things unless it helps your beliefs.

Yes, but they were doing this preserving at times that correspond to what you're calling the Jurassic. The Pyramids (circa 2500 BCE) are not found in the Jurassic.

Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. If Egypt was post flood, how would it be they were around long before the flood and doing some sort of claimed 'preserving' in no less than the Jurassic period!??

 

[essentialsaltes]

Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Just hoping you realize that you deny not only standard science, but also standard history.

If Egypt was post flood, how would it be they were around long before the flood and doing some sort of claimed 'preserving' in no less than the Jurassic period!??

Yes, we are all puzzled by your theory.

"The flood was something like 4400 years ago"

That means the Flood was around 2400 BCE

But the Egyptians and other ancient civilizations were already around at that time. They didn't notice that they all died.

 

[dad]

Just hoping you realize that you deny not only standard science, but also standard history.

Hope you realize that only same state past dating is the issue. You use that for all the dates.

"The flood was something like 4400 years ago"

That means the Flood was around 2400 BCE

Sounds about right.

But the Egyptians and other ancient civilizations were already around at that time. They didn't notice that they all died.

As I pointed out, only the same nature in the past belief based radioactive decay 'dates' date that for you. Surely you would not dare try to use the king lists? Ha.

Basically there is NOTHING in the way since I have proven for years that a same natured past cannot be proven.

 

[Helmut-WK]

You mean if one is drunk in the delusions and beliefs of godless so called science, and has hammered all evidences into that paradigm in his head? Or do you mean that man was on Pangaea is no surprise...or?

As to your last question: What you quoted was no hint to man ever being on Pangaea, so I did not refer to that possibility.

Marsupials have been on every continent, and then got nearly extinct because of the true mammals (placenta animals) replacing them. They survived in Australia, a few ones in America ... little surprise they can be found in arctic regions.

As to your statement about science: Modern science originated in the thought that the creation can be studied, because man has got his senses, understanding and intelligence from the Creator. Science has set up in a way that everybody can agree to her results, because the method is clear, allows checking of results, and is as neutral as possible. So Christian like Newton or Faraday participated with valuable contributions to science. I can't see any reason to denounce science in a way as you did.

Here is how I date it. The flood was something like 4400 years ago (rounding it off)

How do arrive at this date? There a biblical grounds for not making a too mechanical calculation based on the genealogical lists in Genesis:

• In Mt 1, a comparison with the OT shows that Matthew tailored the list from David to the exile to 14 Generations, removing some generations.
• A consideration about time span and possible number of years between generations makes it very likely that he did tailor the list from the exile to Christ, too. A comparison with the genealogy in Lk 3 makes it almost certain he did.
• A comparison of Lk 3:36 with Gen 10:24 shows that the lists in Genesis are likewise incomplete (unless you underwrite the "historic-critical" assumption that this is an error Luke got from the erroneous LXX).

It is said that Peleg was 5 years old at the time of the tower of Babel.

Can you please mention which verse in the Bible says so?

It is also noted that the big division on earth was in his lifetime. I suspect that a change in nature happened at the time of Babel.

Just because your understanding of the word "division" demands it, or do you have a biblical foundation that makes this assumption likely?

After that change man lived a few centuries instead of almost 10 centuries. Then in several generations life spans fell to present levels.

This does not point to a big change in nature. Maximum life span is genetically determined by the length of the protective ends at the DNA strings - better ask a biologist for more details. There is a defect which causes the people suffering from that to "live faster": puberty about 5 years, natural death between 20 or 30 years. The maximal life span of about 120 years as we have it as normal case could be a similar "defect" which the long-livers simply didn't have.

Spirits could no longer live on earth among men openly and naturally.

What about Is 34:14-15? Do you think all creatures mentioned there are animals?

Plants could no longer grow very fast, and creatures could no longer adapt/evolve very rapidly.

Any biblical ground for this, or is it pure speculation of yours?

Your scenario is based on the laws and forces existing that we have now.

I can't see any firm ground for other laws in former days.

No, God was in control, and it was the creator overseeing the operation.

He surely did, but to ascribe to Him actions that are not told in the Bible is not what those who believe in the sufficiency of the Bible should do.

Remember also that people at that same time had just lost the ability to communicate to each other through speech!!!!!!!

To be precise: They hadn't lost that ability, but they had lost a common language which enabled them to communicate with ease, without need to learn a foreign language and/or use translators.
This can happen without changing a natural law. One might even argue that the whole story happened quite in a fully natural way, but Gen 10:7-8 seems to indicate some supernatural intervention by God, so I don't follow that speculation.

 

[Helmut-WK]

Hope you realize that only same state past dating is the issue. You use that for all the dates.

This is not true. Radioactive dating is just one method among others. Of course, if you speak of million of years, only radioactive dating ist left, but you speak of about 2500 BC ...

We have dendrochronology, which can be used to date the time a tree was growing and producing the ancient wood found. There is the varve method for recent sediments. And especially in Egypt, there is the possibility to date an event according to the time the Sirius appeared in the Egyptian calendar, which was aimed to be solar, but differed from the solar year because the Egyptians used no leap year.

You are coming close to the point of saying the the order of the seasons was out of order until the flood repaired this. I don't think you can reconcile this to Gen 8:22.

 

[lasthero]

This is not true. Radioactive dating is just one method among others. Of course, if you speak of million of years, only radioactive dating ist left, but you speak of about 2500 BC ...

We have dendrochronology, which can be used to date the time a tree was growing and producing the ancient wood found. There is the varve method for recent sediments. And especially in Egypt, there is the possibility to date an event according to the time the Sirius appeared in the Egyptian calendar, which was aimed to be solar, but differed from the solar year because the Egyptians used no leap year.

You are coming close to the point of saying the the order of the seasons was out of order until the flood repaired this. I don't think you can reconcile this to Gen 8:22.

Dad will claim whatever he needs to in order to make his stuff work.

 

[dad]

As to your last question: What you quoted was no hint to man ever being on Pangaea, so I did not refer to that possibility.

Being the thread title and topic I assumed it may possibly have been addressed. That's fine though long as you are clear on whatever you are talking about.

Marsupials have been on every continent, and then got nearly extinct because of the true mammals (placenta animals) replacing them. They survived in Australia, a few ones in America ... little surprise they can be found in arctic regions.

The OP mentioned
"an environment that scientists say was surprisingly diverse.." So apparently it was somewhat surprising. .

Well,

As to your statement about science: Modern science originated in the thought that the creation can be studied, because man has got his senses, understanding and intelligence from the Creator. Science has set up in a way that everybody can agree to her results, because the method is clear, allows checking of results, and is as neutral as possible.

Limiting what creation is all about to man's senses is patently ridiculous. If man had sense He would not omit God and creation from his knowledge as science does. That is not intelligence! Not everyone agrees with the insane godless conclusions of faith based science either. In fact God doesn't as evidence by His word!!

So Christian like Newton or Faraday participated with valuable contributions to science. I can't see any reason to denounce science in a way as you did.

Having an apple drop on your head may be a good way of getting you to think about gravity but that does not excuse origin so called science fables.

How do arrive at this date? There a biblical grounds for not making a too mechanical calculation based on the genealogical lists in Genesis:

• In Mt 1, a comparison with the OT shows that Matthew tailored the list from David to the exile to 14 Generations, removing some generations.

So what? This does not negate the records since Adam.

• 
  

  [*]A consideration about time span and possible number of years between generations makes it very likely that he did tailor the list from the exile to Christ, too. A comparison with the genealogy in Lk 3 makes it almost certain he did.

  Did Ussher use that chapter for dates??

  [*]A comparison of Lk 3:36 with Gen 10:24 shows that the lists in Genesis are likewise incomplete (unless you underwrite the "historic-critical" assumption that this is an error Luke got from the erroneous LXX).

  For the purposes they were included, who says they were meant to do that?

Can you please mention which verse in the Bible says so?

Peleg was born about 101 years after the flood. It is not in the bible how old he was at Babel. That we can get from other sources.

example:

"An interesting piece of information comes from Manetho, who recorded the history of Egypt in the third century BC. He wrote that the Tower of Babel occurred five years after the birth of Peleg.7..."

In the Days of Peleg

Just because your understanding of the word "division" demands it, or do you have a biblical foundation that makes this assumption likely?

It is not the word division that demands anything. Science says it was a big supercontinent. It did break up. We know that religions and languages and mankind came from Babel according to the bible. It is logical that the division of continents, as many Christians have speculated for many years, was included in all that was divided! There is also the issue of animal migration. Animals had to get around to the various areas that are now continents also.

This does not point to a big change in nature. Maximum life span is genetically determined by the length of the protective ends at the DNA strings - better ask a biologist for more details. There is a defect which causes the people suffering from that to "live faster": puberty about 5 years, natural death between 20 or 30 years. The maximal life span of about 120 years as we have it as normal case could be a similar "defect" which the long-livers simply didn't have.

Name anyone that lived 1000 years because they had a good length of DNA ends!!!?? Ridiculous. We do not even know that modern DNA existed.

What about Is 34:14-15? Do you think all creatures mentioned there are animals?

Not sure what you are referencing here.

Any biblical ground for this, or is it pure speculation of yours?

Yes. Noah sent out birds and found that there were trees only weeks after the flood receded! A garden was planted in Eden and man ate fruit from the trees that week! In the future, during the millennium we see that plants grow fast again.

I can't see any firm ground for other laws in former days.

I cannot see how nature of this day would allow what the bible records and even ancient history. I also see that in the bible, the future nature is different here also.

He surely did, but to ascribe to Him actions that are not told in the Bible is not what those who believe in the sufficiency of the Bible should do.

His actions changed things. His action brought the flood. His actions reduced life spans and confused languages and caused man to spread out etc etc. By noting these changes we can see that the anti creator stories of so called science are false. Science uses the present to model the past. The result of this has been models that have man evolving rather than being created, and etc etc etc. You cannot make a case for the present nature existing here after Christ returns or in the pre Babel world!

To be precise: They hadn't lost that ability, but they had lost a common language which enabled them to communicate with ease, without need to learn a foreign language and/or use translators.

Translators?? Where do you find those for every language on earth when you are half way to the clouds in a tower and suddenly can't understand what people are saying!?

This can happen without changing a natural law. One might even argue that the whole story happened quite in a fully natural way, but Gen 10:7-8 seems to indicate some supernatural intervention by God, so I don't follow that speculation.

The thousands of people from all over the world understood what the apostles were saying. That was NOT natural! Nor was the sudden confusion of tongues natural.

 

[dad]

This is not true. Radioactive dating is just one method among others. Of course, if you speak of million of years, only radioactive dating ist left, but you speak of about 2500 BC ..

Right, and dates for Egypt come down to this type of dating as we shall see.

We have dendrochronology, which can be used to date the time a tree was growing and producing the ancient wood found.

False. If trees grew in weeks the rings did not represent years!! The only place tree rings are good for dates is here in the nature of the present.

There is the varve method for recent sediments.

No. Growth depends on nature. Like trees we cannot assume current rates of growth!

And especially in Egypt, there is the possibility to date an event according to the time the Sirius appeared in the Egyptian calendar, which was aimed to be solar, but differed from the solar year because the Egyptians used no leap year.

Not true either! The year used to be 360 days in the former times as it will be again in the future. We also do not know if any changes in the orbits/axis/alignments of any bodies took place!

You are coming close to the point of saying the the order of the seasons was out of order until the flood repaired this. I don't think you can reconcile this to Gen 8:22.

NOT the flood. The change in nature was likely after the flood time and, as I have mentioned in the days of Peleg.

That also fits the scientific evidences far far far better.

 

[dad]

Dad will claim whatever he needs to in order to make his stuff work.

God claimed. Science claimed. I chose sides.