Married to a narcissist who cannot truly love

[CentexMom]

After nearly 14 years of marriage, I'm beginning to believe that I may be married to someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)...someone who is simply incapable of authentic love. I'm hoping someone here has some experience with narcissists--maybe even been married to one? It's a complicated personality disorder. There's not really room here to list all the symptoms. The net-net is that we have a loveless marriage and pretty much always have. We've just been great pretenders. I've sought help for me. I've sought help for us. God has really tilled up some hard ground in my heart (with PLENTY of hard ground to go), but my husband WILL NOT get help for himself. He doesn't think he has a problem. I've been fighting divorce because I didn't want to hurt my children and because "God hates divorce." But the fact is, his narcissim has already hurt the kids. He is controlling, excessively critical, quick to judge, and quick to anger. The prayer of my youngest (8-year-old) lately is, "God, help Daddy to not be so mad all the time." A Christian friend said to me that I have grounds to leave him because he is not, nor has he ever, fulfilled his vows to "love, honor, and cherish." Either way, my children hurt, and I HATE that. Help! I don't know what to do anymore!

 

[Johnnz]

Have you discussed this with anyone from your church? There is a lot involved in your situation, and wise counsel and caring support can be invaluable in seeing you through the choices you need to make.

John
NZ

 

[UnitynLove]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7377664/

 

[bluelime2]

I recommend good christian counselling as well. I personally think that emotional abuse does more damage then physical abuse ultimatly, but it can hide behind the some of the nicest smiles and well meaning people.

The only allowable reason that the bible gives for divorce and remarriage, is sexual sin. But that doesn't mean you have to live with an abuser. If someone won't change their attitudes and lifestyle and refuse to get help but instead just move on with someone else, you're free to go (because they've broken the covenant by sleeping with someone else, either within marriage or out of it) and you can remarry. But at least they have that option first.

So if it gets too bad, one option is to move out. Not perhaps the easiest thing to do, but it gives your relationship more of a chance if your partner is refusing to change his behaviour. (And if not, helps to minimise the impact of a permanent break and the emotional damage in the process and also enables those involved to see the bigger picture and the faults more clearly.)

 

[CentexMom]

Thanks for your replies. Yes, actually, I've been with a Christian counselor for a few months. I understand he can't make the decision to stay or go for me. And he really doesn't seem to be trying to influence me either way. He reminded me that if I stay, it will likely mean being resigned to being in a loveless marriage if my husband continues to do nothing about it—that NPD is one of those things that has a low success rate in treatment. But he also seems to be saying that he thinks I probably have biblical grounds to leave him. He has done a lot of study about the true meaning of and intent behind the words "adultery" (or is it "fornication"? I forget). He's of the opinion that adultery (or fornication) is less about sex and more about keeping and breaking covenants, and that my husband is and has (as a rule, not an exception), never loved, honored, or cherished me. I guess we're all guilty (including me) of not doing that. But the difference is, I don't want it to be that way. I want to be the kind of wife God wants me to be, and I’m trying to be open to anything God wants show me about myself that needs to change in order to make that happen. My husband doesn't. And “the rest of the world” doesn’t understand. He’s really good at maintaining the “nice-guy” image on the outside. And pretty much everyone in my world (except for my mom and siblings, who have seen his true colors over 14 years), will say to me, “But he’s such a nice guy. How could you think about leaving him?” I know it doesn’t matter what the world thinks…it’s what God thinks. I find it hard to believe God would want divorce, but I also find it hard to believe that a God who loves us would allow us to be sentenced to a loveless marriage. And there truly is no love there. I look into his eyes (when he makes eye contact with me, which he rarely does…never has), there is nothing there. It’s, like, empty space. I know. It’s weird. It makes me feel crazy.

 

[Johnnz]

Divorce is not God's preference. But neither is it forbidden either. The NT texts on this issue are not well understood, and some consequently take a very limited view of what constitutes valid biblical grounds for divorce.

John
NZ

 

[DavinMochrie]

Centex,

My personal experience with personality disorders is being raised by an Undiagnosed Borderline Personality Disordered Mother.

I've done a lot of reading about the abuse and the personality disorders.

I have actually worked for a boss for 2 years who had NPD. He seemed to have a loveless marriage, and carried on an affair for years with a married employee. Apparently it was some sick agreement between both couples, or so the rumours were.

My Advice would be the following:

1. If you divorce, do it properly and do it now.

2. If you want to stay and try to work things through: Only stay on the following conditions: 1. He admits his disorder and that he has it, 2. He actively attends therapy and trys to change his ways.

Both options will bring you happiness.

 

[CentexMom]

Thanks Davin. Frankly, I'm past the point of seeking happiness, I just want not to be miserable any more. I did tell him I would stay if he would: 1. Get a professional diagnosis (only because I can't convince him he's got a problem...he says his problem is my "victimizing" him...hoping a professional might be able to convince him), and 2. Begin to act on that diagnosis, with therapy or whatever, within a certain time frame (otherwise, he would continue to "forget about it" endlessly, hoping it will just go away). He's vascillated back and forth on the answer. He clearly DOESN'T want to do this. And I told him if he was doing it just because I asked him to, that wouldn't work either. He's going to have to really want it. He finally said he would at least go for the diagnosis. Won't promise anything beyond that. I can only hope and pray that God would open his heart and mind to the truth, but I have to tell you, I'm not optimistic about it at all right now.

 

[DavinMochrie]

Thanks Davin. Frankly, I'm past the point of seeking happiness, I just want not to be miserable any more. I did tell him I would stay if he would: 1. Get a professional diagnosis (only because I can't convince him he's got a problem...he says his problem is my "victimizing" him...hoping a professional might be able to convince him), and 2. Begin to act on that diagnosis, with therapy or whatever, within a certain time frame (otherwise, he would continue to "forget about it" endlessly, hoping it will just go away). He's vascillated back and forth on the answer. He clearly DOESN'T want to do this. And I told him if he was doing it just because I asked him to, that wouldn't work either. He's going to have to really want it. He finally said he would at least go for the diagnosis. Won't promise anything beyond that. I can only hope and pray that God would open his heart and mind to the truth, but I have to tell you, I'm not optimistic about it at all right now.

It's good to be realistic.

I really think they hav eto acknowledge it themselves before they can change. Even if they are diagnosed, a lot of these people still deny it.

 

[dariya]

I know how is that feeling SentexMom...Don't feel guilty if you decide for divorce.
Is not weird , I know that look (emty space..nothing) , cold.

Take care of your self
All the best and may God bless you

 

[myanchor]

Okay, God hates divorce. He hates it because it is ruinous to all involved. But God divorced Israel when Israel was so wayward. Jesus said that he permitted divorce and remarriage in the case of adultery. Paul said let the unbeliever go if they decided on divorce.
Nowhere in your post did you mention remarriage after divorcing your husband. A separation to protect yourself and your children is definitely in order. Get a legal separation with language in there specifying visitation, child support, and what he, and you must do in order to repair the marriage and get back together. If he is narcissistic, I'm pretty he will move on to his next victim. And then he has committed adultery and you are free to divorce and remarry should you choose. If he gets help and works at it, then you can consider reconciliation. If he still refuses to get help divorce him and stay single. It has to better than what you have now.

 

[myanchor]

And one more thing. Go to lovefraud.org or lovefraud.com and read some the stories on their blog. If your guy fits most of that, you definitely need to get away and protect yourself and the children. You do not want them to emulate him.

 

[CentexMom]

Thanks myanchor. That's good advice. I already see him surrounding himself with a whole new "narcissistic supply" (females at work and online) in anticipation of us divorcing (and he's not even out of the house yet!!!). I have no doubt it will be just a matter of weeks before he's put his foot in it (again). Blessings.

 

[CentexMom]

I know how is that feeling SentexMom...Don't feel guilty if you decide for divorce.
Is not weird , I know that look (emty space..nothing) , cold.

Take care of your self
All the best and may God bless you

Oh, thank you!!! It's so nice to know there are people out there who know what I mean when I say that. It's a very strange thing and really hard to describe. It looks like that's the way we're gonna have to go. He's decided he will not get any help because he "doesn't need it" (i.e., I'm the one who's crazy). So we've both contacted lawyers.

 

[Catherineanne]

A Christian friend said to me that I have grounds to leave him because he is not, nor has he ever, fulfilled his vows to "love, honor, and cherish." Either way, my children hurt, and I HATE that. Help! I don't know what to do anymore!

If this man is overly critical of you and your children, then he is not nurturing or cherishing you, and has indeed broken his vows. He is capable of being very charming and apparently loving, no doubt, but I imagine he stopped bothering to charm you years ago? Yes, he is narcissistic. The question only remains, how much.

I suggest you find out as much as possible about NPD, and how it manifests itself in the family, and then make your decision. And if you are still in any doubt, bear in mind that if you stay with him, then he models narcissistic behaviour to your children, and then they think this is normal. In other words, the disease spreads to the next generation. It is up to you to model self protection, and a healthy abhorrence for abuse.

God may not like divorce, but I can tell you something he likes far less, and that is spousal abuse.

I was married to an N. I have lots of them in my family. Such people have a very severe detrimental effect on anyone who comes into contact with them.

PS I read elsewhere that this 'friend' is your counsellor. Be careful; a counsellor cannot be a friend. I had one who said he was my friend, and he ended up causing me a lot of harm. He is a therapist, or a minister, or a counsellor. He is not a friend.

 

[Catherineanne]

I find it hard to believe God would want divorce, but I also find it hard to believe that a God who loves us would allow us to be sentenced to a loveless marriage. And there truly is no love there. I look into his eyes (when he makes eye contact with me, which he rarely does…never has), there is nothing there. It’s, like, empty space. I know. It’s weird. It makes me feel crazy.

What you describe is not a marriage, therefore God will have no problems with you escaping from it. I know this, because you are where I was 16 years or so ago, praying for God to heal what could not be healed.

It took me four years to get the message, and I am still suffering the impact of those years in my present ill health. For your own sake, and most importantly, for your children, you must leave this man.

Your counsellor may not be able to tell you, but I can. Narcissists cannot change, but your children can. Think about it. If you have sons, this man is their role model. If you have daughters, this man is the model for the husband they will seek.

They need to learn that there is something better; that they deserve better, and so do you.

 

[Catherineanne]

If he is narcissistic, I'm pretty he will move on to his next victim.

Eventually, yes. But not before he has intensified the abuse, and then tried turning on the charm again, to see if that will work.

It is only when the N gets the message that what worked before will not work again, that he will move on to another target. In other words, expect things to get much worse, before they get better. However, they will get better, so hang in there.

 

[ido]

Hi CentexMom.

I could have probably written your posts verbatim. I was married to my ex-husband for almost 5 years and went through countless counselors/pastors trying to get help and get my ex to see that he needed to change his behavior. It was one pastor that pointed out the possibility of Narcissism to me - and I have to say that my ex fits just about every "symptom" listed.

I stayed despite the constant criticism, the temper flares, the infidelity, the physical bullying and the outright neglect of our marriage covenant. I, too, wanted my marriage to work so badly, for the sakes of my children - if no other reason. But, like you, I was the only one that truly wanted the change. I wanted to be the Godly wife to my Godly husband, but that definitely takes two people.

The narcissists abusiveness/neglectfulness is very difficult to prove b/c they do maintain such a facade to the outside world. I used to inwardly gag when people would tell me what a great person my ex was and how lucky I was to be married to him. I used to think, "Oh, if only you knew the man I know" but I never spoke up b/c marriage is a private matter, IMO.

I won't say it's any easier if you divorce, though. Especially with children involved. He will still have access to you b/c he will be seeing the kids. I have been divorced for just over 3 years now and I still have to work to keep the ex from trying to engage me and use me as a narcisstic supply. He is remarried and has been in the relationship with his new wife for about 3 years, so he didn't move on to a new supply - he just added another one with her. Be prepared that your husband may not willingly relinquish you as a supply, either.

Most of all, be prepared to deal with the helplessness you will feel with having to turn your kids over to their dad for visitation. Knowing my kids are not well cared for by their dad and come home to me filthy and hungry and sleep-deprived is the single most frustrating thing I deal with in my situation. I have talked to countless legal professionals who shrug and tell me that neglect is difficult to prove. No one seems to want to point the finger and take appropriate action against him.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from the possibility of divorce - so please don't misunderstand. I'm just trying to show you the harsh reality of trying to break free from a narcissist. I hate divorce and I prayed immediately for forgiveness when I made the decision to leave my ex. I do believe that God does not mean for harm to come to us (Jeremiah 29:11) and that He wants us to do what we have to in order to protect ourselves and our children.

Please feel free to PM me any time you want to talk or ask me questions about my situation and how I handled things. I would recommend this site to you -

Suriving the Narcissist

The site addresses both choosing to remain in a relationship with a narcissist and coping skills to do so, as well as choosing to end a relationship with a narcissist. It has helped me tremendously with knowing how to manage my relationship with my ex. For about a year now, I have been able to successfully disengage from him with the help of this site and understanding how his brain works and what he needs from me when he is trying to engage me in arguments or by throwing details of his new relationship in my face.

Hang in there, sister! And know that I'm praying for you and your family.

 

[ido]

Eventually, yes. But not before he has intensified the abuse, and then tried turning on the charm again, to see if that will work.

It is only when the N gets the message that what worked before will not work again, that he will move on to another target. In other words, expect things to get much worse, before they get better. However, they will get better, so hang in there.

This is true. I'm still hanging in there - but it's gotten worse and now it's getting better. So, I'm hoping to see a light at the end of my tunnel soon!

 

[Wooddove]

I am also married to a Narcissist, and have been for 13 years. I totally get where you "are." I just recently made the decision to leave, because my husband categorically refuses to see that there is a problem with himself. He began psychotherapy when I told him I didn't know whether or not I wanted to stay with him, and the first psychologist who saw him said "You seem like a nice guy--why do you need a psychologist?" People just don't realize--especially when it's an extremely intelligent, high-functioning, controlling manipulator like my husband--what could possibly be going on behind the scenes.

I have already faced retribution for my decision, been told that I am in rebellion (this from a member of my own family) and need to get right with God, etc. Despite it being hurtful, I know this person simply doesn't understand.

My husband, unfortunately, also suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder, and the two together make for some real weirdness. Like most with NPD, he has this "Tower of Babel" pedestal that he sets me on until I have the audacity to be hurt by something small he said or did, then I'm Satan incarnate. EVERYTHING that has ever come up for discussion, argument, or simple disagreement in our marriage has been my fault. Absolutely everything--always. The yelling and cutting remarks,the constant blame, the refusal to help with anything, the lack of "actual" love--it's always just a sham, and expressions of love are designed to make me realize that he is the ultimate man/husband/lover/god of the universe. They have nothing to do with any actual feeling he has for me.

You have my deepest sympathies--and greatest empathy (which you know your husband is incapable of feeling!).

I want to mention a few thoughts on divorce. First of all, God is not a narcissist! Despite giving us His word, He doesn't sit in heaven with a celestial hammer, that comes down on a person who violates what some perceive to be black and white rules for divorce. Theological issues are always deeper and more complex than they first appear. I actually have a B.A. in Bible from a very legalistic Baptist college, and there is no way in hell I would hold to the teachings I received about divorce back then!

In terms of narcissism, there are a couple things that I believe play into this issue. First of all, there is a very real sense that a narcissist has "left" you, emotionally. Technically, he wasn't there in the first place, but that isn't always readily apparent. There is also very real emotional abuse that is perpetrated by a narcissist. There is no true concern for your welfare, no committment to the ideals of the vows you spoke at your wedding, no real love, no real caring (for you OR your children)--in short, there is nothing at all in him that is even capable of fulfilling the Biblical mandate to love you as Christ loved the church. He also can't love you like his own body. . . cherish you. . . or do anything that is truly Christ-like. He actually epitomizes that which got Lucifer thrown out of heaven. Pride. Arrogance. Complete and total focus on self.

I may be naive, but I simply can't imagine the God I know and love wanting me to suffer a lifetime under the maltreatment and yes, abuse, of a person emulating that which God hates. It doesn't compute for me. It's almost like living in a cultish microcosm. You and I live with Jim Jones, figuratively speaking! Don't drink the kool-aid!

I, too, am in psychotherapy, and when I asked whether or not my husband could be helped or cured, she said no. The prevailing theory is that personality disorders are essentially set in stone by the time the person is in his teens. A miracle by God could effect the change, but I wouldn't wait for the that to happen if I were you.

Since my husband also has BPD, I have suffered unimaginable indignities at his hands. Fear of abandonnment is the biggie with that one, and oh my gosh, the drama. . . He has invaded my privacy, read my e-mail (for the purpose of character destruction, intrusion and to accuse me of things that never happened (he even created a fake e-mail, then accused me of writing it!); he's gone around to all my friends and lied about me--or accused them! He's tried to isolate me from our finances. . . and so much more. The things he's done are downright bizarre. I literally have only one friend left, the damage has been so great. I mention it, because there WILL be repercussions if you leave. Leaving a narcissist is unimaginable to him--unthinkable, and you will pay. However, if you want even reasonably normal children, GO--NOW! Get them into therapy immediately, too. He'll ruin you all.

I wish you God's best, God's presence, and Godspeed!