Mark of the Beast

[Douggg]

The GWT is dead people. The sheep and goats in Matthew 25 are living people on earth, still physically alive

Goats and sheep have been every generation. Plus at the GWT judgment, them alive on earth at the time of Satan's last rebellion, who are not killed in the attack on Israel, will have to appear before the GWT judgment as well. It just does not speaking directly about them.

The sign and the appearing happen at the same time. You point out the sign, then seem to ignore the fact the Son of man is also right there in person.

The sign is the appearing of Jesus in heaven. It is the sixth seal event. 45 days later Jesus descends to earth, with his armies of heaven. During the 45 days the king of earth assemble their armies to make war on Jesus to prevent Him from executing judgment on them. The 45 days are on my second chart below, lower right hand corner.

 

[Timtofly]

Goats and sheep have been every generation. Plus at the GWT judgment, them alive on earth at the time of Satan's last rebellion, who are not killed in the attack on Israel, will have to appear before the GWT judgment as well. It just does not speaking directly about them.

Wrong interpretation and application of the Olivet Discourse. Jesus is not talking about the church any where in the OD. The church is by Faith. It is not by God's choice. That application leads to Calvinism and limited Atonement along with works salvation. The goats and sheep is current Israel that is about to be separated at the Second Coming. The church goes to Paradise. The church is not split between sheep and goats. The apostate church joins up with Satan.

 

[Ligurian]

There needs to be room for 10 nations to gather together to fight.

Given the direction of the army's advance, I'm thinking you're right.

Did a bit of research on that...

Matthew.2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

The word "east" is anatole.

"Now, considering that the Gospel account is written in Koine Greek, originating in Greece. Take a look at a map of Greece and then look at what is directly to the east of Greece — Turkey. And what was the Greek term for Turkey in the first century (long before the Turks had arrived on the scene)? Anatolia, coming from “ἀνατολή” — East, or the Rising of the Sun. Greece literally named the neighboring land east of Greece, “East”."
What "East" Were The Wise Men From? - Steve Simons

Matthew 2:1 Interlinear: And Jesus having been born in Beth-Lehem of Judea, in the days of Herod the king, lo, mages from the east came to Jerusalem,

... aaannd found a problem in KJV.

Rev.16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.KJV (why didn't they translate the word helios?)

Revelation 16:12 Interlinear: And the sixth messenger did pour out his vial upon the great river, the Euphrates, and dried up was its water, that the way of the kings who are from the rising of the sun may be made ready;
"And the sixth poured out the bowl of him upon the river the great Euphrates and was dried up the water of it so that might be prepared the way of the kings from the rising of the sun."

Word-for-word interlinear makes it look like the far east was meant.

 

[Ligurian]

I would say the church is at fault. They did not bring in the golden harvest, prior to the Second Coming. That is the only reason Satan is given access for 42 months. Too many souls left in the vineyard.

The angels, the Lamb, and the 144k reap the final harvest. It is not golden. It is the destruction of the goats to Death. It is the destruction of the tares to Death. The sheep and the wheat have their souls resurrected in Revelation 20:4. They are not the church. Those beheaded if Satan gets 42 months, are resurrected. If Satan does not get 42 months, no FP, no AC, no mark, and no one beheaded. No 7 vials and no Armageddon. The 7th Trumpet sounds for the week, the week is not split. God's Wrath is poured out in the winepress, all of Adam is dead, without the battle of Armageddon necessary. Revelation 14 covers the rest of the book until chapter 20 and the 1000 year reign, and Satan is still bound. The FP died in the winepress. There was no abomination of desolation that is the beast, the alleged AC. It was never set up, because the week was never split. Revelation 17 and 18 was not necessary because Satan never set Babylon up for 42 months. The kingdoms (governments) of the earth are decimated at the 6th Seal. The Lamb comes in the 6th Seal for a harvest and to finish Adam's flesh and blood off, once and for all. Governments never recoup, because Satan is never given the vineyard. This lack of Satan in control rest only in the hands of the church. The apostate church that humbles herself, turns from her wicked ways, seeks God's face, will hear from Heaven, and God will heal the nations, and bring in the golden harvest. Really very simple, yet so far removed from carnal minded Christians that the opportunity will pass, and the apostate church will ride the back of the dragon instead.

Now I get it... you think the vineyard is the church. The multitude is evangelized by the 144k... that's why we get that flash-forward of them standing on the glass sea right after the 144k are sealed. The multitude is whosoever will from Rev.22... being told to come drink the living waters of the Spirit by the Church.

The real problem is that the tares look like wheat.
The One Shepherd tells us the seed of the enemy are the tares: Since the seed was ripped out of the people who don't understand the Kingdom Gospel, by the enemy... this must have been where the enemy planted his seed. Beware the doctrine of the Pharisees.

Matt.13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.KJV

Revelation is not linear... it's full of flash-backs, etc., as did the OT prophets.

The seals are like a table of contents, or a spoiler alert.
The 6th seal is the most obvious place that you see this. And keep in mind, that OT prophecy had verses spliced into places where they didn't seem to fit at all. And some prophecies have huge gaps in the middle that you cannot see from the texts themselves... but the time time and a half time showcase this device.

____________
And Carnal Christian = Sardis, the dead church.

I'd be very careful of tossing that saying at people whose daily lives you never see. By their fruits ye shall know them. Do they quote Jesus? Cool. Do they practice what Jesus taught? On the web, who can tell?

There's dead/mortal Sardis, and then there is Philadelphia.
Revelation 3 Interlinear Bible

Rev.3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.KJV
Rev.16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.KJV

Chronology is everything... and worth the time learning.

 

[Timtofly]

Now I get it... you think the vineyard is the church. The multitude is evangelized by the 144k... that's why we get that flash-forward of them standing on the glass sea right after the 144k are sealed. The multitude is whosoever will from Rev.22... being told to come drink the living waters of the Spirit by the Church.

The real problem is that the tares look like wheat.
The One Shepherd tells us the seed of the enemy are the tares: Since the seed was ripped out of the people who don't understand the Kingdom Gospel, by the enemy... this must have been where the enemy planted his seed. Beware the doctrine of the Pharisees.

Matt.13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.KJV

Revelation is not linear... it's full of flash-backs, etc., as did the OT prophets.

The seals are like a table of contents, or a spoiler alert.
The 6th seal is the most obvious place that you see this. And keep in mind, that OT prophecy had verses spliced into places where they didn't seem to fit at all. And some prophecies have huge gaps in the middle that you cannot see from the texts themselves... but the time time and a half time showcase this device.

____________
And Carnal Christian = Sardis, the dead church.

I'd be very careful of tossing that saying at people whose daily lives you never see. By their fruits ye shall know them. Do they quote Jesus? Cool. Do they practice what Jesus taught? On the web, who can tell?

There's dead/mortal Sardis, and then there is Philadelphia.
Revelation 3 Interlinear Bible

Rev.3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.KJV
Rev.16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.KJV

Chronology is everything... and worth the time learning.

The vinyard is the world..

The church is the husbandmen who took over the world after the Cross.

The Cross removed Israel from being husbandmen.

 

[Clare73]

I got a question for my Christian Brothers and Sisters i wanna see what you guys got to say Who do you guys believe the Beast is? and Who you guys believe the Mark is? Any opinions or interpretations are accepted God bless

I'm thinking a required implanted computer chip for identification.

 

[Ligurian]

Wrong interpretation and application of the Olivet Discourse. Jesus is not talking about the church any where in the OD.

Nonsense. You only think that because you maybe never read Matthew 28:16.
The Disciples are those who abide in Jesus after they say they believe Him.
Can't really say you believe someone if you don't do what He says.

Matthew.24:3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew.28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and disciple all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world.

Jesus says the message never changes. He taught the words the Father gave to Him, just as He says He did in John.12:28-50. Jesus says that we will believe on Him because the 11 Disciples will tell those words to us, John.17:20. Jesus says they will bear witness of Him because they were with Him from the beginning, John.15:26.

If it seems like common sense... well, sense must not be very common, these days.

The church is by Faith. It is not by God's choice. That application leads to Calvinism and limited Atonement along with works salvation.

John.6:37 All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me; and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me.

Matthew.7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

James.2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

The goats and sheep is current Israel that is about to be separated at the Second Coming.

Matthew.15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew.4:18 and 21 = Peter, Andrew, James and John.
Matthew.9:9 = Matthew.
John.1:44 = Philip.

I've already done this work elsewhere, so it's easy to find out where Jesus got His Apostles. Apparently Jesus did exactly what He said He came to do... find and save the lost sheep of Israel, which are the 10-north-tribes.

The kingdom was divided and it still is, even today. It is incorrect to call that modern nation in Palestine by the name of the 10-north-tribes. In fact, Jesus made that point for us.

John.7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for He would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill Him.
John.1:11 He came unto his own, and His own received Him not.

The church goes to Paradise. The church is not split between sheep and goats. The apostate church joins up with Satan.

Yeah... the goats in the church are the tares.

 

[Ligurian]

The vinyard is the world..

The church is the husbandmen who took over the world after the Cross.

The Cross removed Israel from being husbandmen.

By His stripes we are healed... because the rod of man is for chastening the sinner. Jesus took our stripes for us. But His Resurrection is the Way, prepared. And only the witnesses of that Resurrection can know what happened there. So Jesus tells the ones who were with Him all along to be witnesses of Him, and that the disciples must keep His commandments.

Whatever you think about the mark of the beast? it won't be any of this.

 

[Ligurian]

I'm thinking a required implanted computer chip for identification.

It used to seem like the seal of God would be invisible... but then how would the locusts know who to torment?

 

[Douggg]

The goats and sheep is current Israel that is about to be separated at the Second Coming.

The goats and sheep are people out of the nations including Israel.

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

 

[Timtofly]

Nonsense. You only think that because you maybe never read Matthew 28:16.
The Disciples are those who abide in Jesus after they say they believe Him.
Can't really say you believe someone if you don't do what He says.

Matthew.24:3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew.28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and disciple all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world.

Jesus says the message never changes. He taught the words the Father gave to Him, just as He says He did in John.12:28-50. Jesus says that we will believe on Him because the 11 Disciples will tell those words to us, John.17:20. Jesus says they will bear witness of Him because they were with Him from the beginning, John.15:26.

If it seems like common sense... well, sense must not be very common, these days.



John.6:37 All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me; and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me.

Matthew.7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

James.2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.



Matthew.15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew.4:18 and 21 = Peter, Andrew, James and John.
Matthew.9:9 = Matthew.
John.1:44 = Philip.

I've already done this work elsewhere, so it's easy to find out where Jesus got His Apostles. Apparently Jesus did exactly what He said He came to do... find and save the lost sheep of Israel, which are the 10-north-tribes.

The kingdom was divided and it still is, even today. It is incorrect to call that modern nation in Palestine by the name of the 10-north-tribes. In fact, Jesus made that point for us.

John.7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for He would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill Him.
John.1:11 He came unto his own, and His own received Him not.



Yeah... the goats in the church are the tares.

So you quote many Scriptures except the Olivet Discourse to prove my point concerning the Olivet Discourse? Jesus is talking about His Second Coming in the Olivet Discourse. He mentioned nothing about His first coming in His answers.

 

[Timtofly]

The goats and sheep are people out of the nations including Israel.

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

So you think no more of Israel will be left in the other Nations? They will have all migrated to Israel?

 

[fatherforgivethem]

When the time comes, if someone receive the mark of the beast, can it be removed?

Like, let's suppose someone gets the mark, but after that a Christian friend comes to him and teach him bringing him to know Jesus, God and what the Scriptures say. Can this guy get the mark removed?

 

[Douggg]

So you think no more of Israel will be left in the other Nations? They will have all migrated to Israel?

When Jesus returns, he gathers all of the house of Israel back to the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

And besides that, it says all nations - not just Israel - in Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

 

[Timtofly]

When the time comes, if someone receive the mark of the beast, can it be removed?

Like, let's suppose someone gets the mark, but after that a Christian friend comes to him and teach him bringing him to know Jesus, God and what the Scriptures say. Can this guy get the mark removed?

This is something that can not be reversed. No "Christians" accept the 2 witnesses. All those who avoid the mark will have already had their heads chopped off. Bodies without heads will not be walking around warning people not to take the mark, nor be able to offer a way to remove the mark.

 

[Timtofly]

When Jesus returns, he gathers all of the house of Israel back to the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

And besides that, it says all nations - not just Israel - in Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

At the Second Coming Jesus is separating the sheep and goats from all the nations, but not all in those nations are sheep and goats. This is the distinction of the Trumpets and Thunders. We cannot ignore the Thunders just because the information is sealed to us. There will still be many souls left in the Nations to harvest during the Thunders. This group during the Thunders is the wheat and the tares.

The Trumpets have been a national Israeli thing as Trumpets were used to call them to battle, since Jericho. Many of Israel will be judged as goats, and be sent to the Lake of Fire.

This has been wrongly applied to the church as well. Many claim only a select few are elect to recieve the Atonement. This election of Israel has been applied to the church. Then the claim is all Israel will be saved, yet only a select group will be Atoned? Who says the goats outnumber the sheep? Who says it is 50/50? Not I. There may be only a handful of goats, but 1 goat is enough to be separated out. This separation is not part of the attribute of the Atonement where the majority of humanity has rejected it. The sheep and goats in Matthew 25 had no clue prior to the Second Coming, they were sheep or goats. No one in this group planned to be, nor had any idea, they would be sheep or goats. They all should have been part of the church, and had the Blood of Christ be their Atonement. They were not. They are now being harvested by the angels as the firstfruits of those who rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years. This is the Second Coming, not the GWT, 1000 years later, of only dead people.

 

[Douggg]

At the Second Coming Jesus is separating the sheep and goats from all the nations, but not all in those nations are sheep and goats. This is the distinction of the Trumpets and Thunders. We cannot ignore the Thunders just because the information is sealed to us. There will still be many souls left in the Nations to harvest during the Thunders. This group during the Thunders is the wheat and the tares.

The Trumpets have been a national Israeli thing as Trumpets were used to call them to battle, since Jericho. Many of Israel will be judged as goats, and be sent to the Lake of Fire.

This has been wrongly applied to the church as well. Many claim only a select few are elect to recieve the Atonement. This election of Israel has been applied to the church. Then the claim is all Israel will be saved, yet only a select group will be Atoned? Who says the goats outnumber the sheep? Who says it is 50/50? Not I. There may be only a handful of goats, but 1 goat is enough to be separated out. This separation is not part of the attribute of the Atonement where the majority of humanity has rejected it. The sheep and goats in Matthew 25 had no clue prior to the Second Coming, they were sheep or goats. No one in this group planned to be, nor had any idea, they would be sheep or goats. They all should have been part of the church, and had the Blood of Christ be their Atonement. They were not. They are now being harvested by the angels as the firstfruits of those who rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years. This is the Second Coming, not the GWT, 1000 years later, of only dead people.

Tim, you are clouding the issue of when Jesus returns to this earth. You are claiming before the 42 months of the beast's rule in Revelation 13 begins. Which makes no sense at all.

 

[Timtofly]

Tim, you are clouding the issue of when Jesus returns to this earth. You are claiming before the 42 months of the beast's rule in Revelation 13 begins. Which makes no sense at all.

It should be clear. It is the topic of many parables that Jesus taught in the Gospels. The Second Coming is just the same as the first coming. The completion of the earthly ministry of Christ. The first time around was not symbolic, but literal. Same with the Second Coming.

 

[Gottservant]

Answered.

 

[Freedm]

Remanent, as in the case of Israel, is that although in one respect their numbers are great when spread across history, only a small percentage will be saved.

A small percentage has already been saved, all throughout history. There's no need to wait for a future fulfilment of this expectation.