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Mark Driscoll

AndOne

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I lived there for 7 years in the late 80's, early 90's, when "Grunge" was happening. It was a lot of fun.

I think it snowed like three times the whole time I was there, and the rain is more of a persistent mist with low clouds, depressing enough for many.

They must be getting an unordinary amount of snow there this year then - I keep hearing him talking about it on his podcasts - "Glad the snow didn't keep you guys away..." and stuff like that.

Yea - I thought the "grunge" days were cool tool. But oddly enough the coolest band out of Seatle - in my opinion anyway - has always been Queensryche....
 
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desmalia

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They must be getting an unordinary amount of snow there this year then - I keep hearing him talking about it on his podcasts - "Glad the snow didn't keep you guys away..." and stuff like that.
Yup. It's been a crazy winter so far. (I'm just across the border and we get mostly the same weather as them.)
 
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Hammster

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If you are going to download Driscoll's sermons, don't judge him entirely by the earlier ones. He has definitely toned down. It came about the time he preached on humility. I was talking to my pastor the other day about him and said that before that message I don't think it would have been good to have him preach in our church. Now, I think he would be welcome. (Although a few might still be offended.) His best message, IMO, is 'Death by Love' which you can find on iTunes.
 
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AndOne

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If you are going to download Driscoll's sermons, don't judge him entirely by the earlier ones. He has definitely toned down. It came about the time he preached on humility. I was talking to my pastor the other day about him and said that before that message I don't think it would have been good to have him preach in our church. Now, I think he would be welcome. (Although a few might still be offended.) His best message, IMO, is 'Death by Love' which you can find on iTunes.

I particularly liked the series "Religion Saves and nine other misconceptions...." In that series is a lesson on dating which I plan on making my kids listen to once they hit their teens - one of whom is already there....
 
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cygnusx1

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Bulstrode Whitelock

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Mark has gotten into some hot water with his comments on "The New Calvinism".

I can't link yet, but here are two blog entries of his where first he says some startlingly inaccurate things and then where he appears to have been corrected by someone (Carson?) and seems to want to clarify.

1. theresurgence.com/new_calvinism

2. theresurgence.com/time_magazine_new_reformed

Note: no "www" in either url.
 
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AndOne

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Mark has gotten into some hot water with his comments on "The New Calvinism".

I can't link yet, but here are two blog entries of his where first he says some startlingly inaccurate things and then where he appears to have been corrected by someone (Carson?) and seems to want to clarify.

1. theresurgence.com/new_calvinism

2. theresurgence.com/time_magazine_new_reformed

Note: no "www" in either url.

Howdy bro - since I have the links already in my favorites I checked them and I didn't see anywhere where Don Carson corrects Driscoll. Also - I saw nothing that Driscoll said that I would consider inaccurate. Controversial perhaps - but certainly not inaccurate. Check the bottom link in my signature acctually....
 
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Beoga

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Howdy bro - since I have the links already in my favorites I checked them and I didn't see anywhere where Don Carson corrects Driscoll. Also - I saw nothing that Driscoll said that I would consider inaccurate. Controversial perhaps - but certainly not inaccurate. Check the bottom link in my signature acctually....

I would have to disagree. His statement (below) is more than just controversial, it is inaccurate.
"Old Calvinism was cessationistic and fearful of the presence and power of the Holy Spirit. New Calvinism is continuationist and joyful in the presence and power of the Holy Spirit."
Driscoll should know better than to say that.
James Grant said:
What is the deal with this? This is an important theological difference even among New Calvinists, and Driscoll wants to make it the badge of New Calvinism? I think we should be willing to leave this as a matter of debate without the rhetoric attached to this point. Yes, there are Calvinists who are cessationists, but they are certainly NOT fearful of the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, and almost all that I know affirm that the Spirit still works in extraordinary ways within their cessasionist paradigm. Perhaps they are fearful of Driscoll’s version of the Holy Spirit because they don’t believe he is biblical, but that is a theological discussion that needs to take place. But even those ministers would be open to the Spirit doing unusual works.

Driscoll makes a subtle shift here from a theological argument to an experiential conclusion. Just because someone is a cessationists, doesn’t mean the are not joyful in the presence and power of the Holy Spirit. Why don’t we try to keep this one as theological debate since there are plenty of New Calvinists who hold to a type of cessationist theology.
http://www.inlightofthegospel.org/?p=4301

I have benefited greatly from the preaching of Driscoll and I appreciate what he is doing in Seattle, but I think here he oversimplified things and crossed the line into inaccuracies.
 
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ReformedChapin

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Dr Clark has an interesting response on this New Calvinism and Driscoll

Let’s look at the last one first. There are two persistent myths about “Calvinism.” The first seems to be as widely accepted by evangelicals as it is by the critics of Calvinism, i.e., that the central dogma or organizing principle of Calvinism is the doctrine of predestination. Because evangelicals accept this premise (because they don’t seem to read Calvin or his successors much) they speak of any Protestant who holds any of the five points of the Synod of Dort as a “Calvinist.” This leads to the weird expression, “So and so is a 1 (or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5) point Calvinist. The second myth is a corollary to the first, i.e. that Calvin was a tyrant. This is a fiction created by the critics of Calvin and his followers, on the assumption that anyone who held to the doctrine of absolute divine sovereignty must have been a tyrant (even if the evidence says otherwise)....

Second, there is precious little evidence that the doctrine confessed and preached at Mars Hill Church is Reformed. There’s little evidence that Mars Hill is a recognizably Reformed congregation. Compare the Mars Hill doctrinal statement to the Belgic Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism, the Canons of Dort, or the Westminster Standards. The doctrine of the continuing work of the Spirit confessed by Driscoll and Mars Hill Church is closer to that of the Anabaptists than it is to Calvin (who regarded the Anabaptists as “fanatics”), Beza, the Synod of Dort, or the Westminster Assembly. The doctrine of baptism confessed by Driscoll and Mars Hill Church is exactly opposite that confessed by all the Reformed Churches since the earliest 16th century...

It was nice of Pastor Driscoll to add a second post, softening the blow of the original post but the original reflects his contempt for historic, confessional Calvinism. Fine. He’s entitled to his opinion. I would rather have him speak his mind about how dead, suburban, and disinterested in evangelism or whatever else he thinks we are than to be patronized for the sake of public relations. Better, however that he and we be honest about that fact that Pastor Driscoll isn’t actually a Calvinist. He may not be pleased with the “old” Calvinists but at least they were actually Calvinists.

http://heidelblog.wordpress.com/2009/03/15/calvinism-old-and-new/
 
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desmalia

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Well this is really rather frustrating. I was starting to have a better impression of Mark Driscoll. But his comments against "old Calvinism" are horrendous. While I probably better represent his view on new Calvinism (minus his ridiculous misrepresentation of cecessationism), attitudes like that make me prefer to associate with the old. He seems to want to reinvent the wheel or something. I wonder what Piper thinks of his friend's comments there.
 
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Bulstrode Whitelock

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Howdy bro - since I have the links already in my favorites I checked them and I didn't see anywhere where Don Carson corrects Driscoll. Also - I saw nothing that Driscoll said that I would consider inaccurate. Controversial perhaps - but certainly not inaccurate. Check the bottom link in my signature acctually....

He's flat out wrong about cessationism. A good number of the "New Calvinists" are cessationist (Piper, Mohler).

I would also like to see some substantiation for the claim that the "Old Calvinists fled the cities".

And finally, the claim that people like Machen and his successors were syncretist or liberal is flatly ridiculous.

The reference to Carson was theoretical. D. A. Carson has had some influence on Driscoll, I was suggesting that it may be that Dr. Carson contacted him and asked him to rethink his rather silly over-simplifications it was a hopeful guess.

Also, I think Dr. Clark can be a bit heavy handed and I think he is being just so in his criticism of Mark and the Mars Hill Church. I will continue to listen to Mark Driscoll because I find him to be mostly sound, but J. Ligon Duncan he ain't. He ain't even Phil Ryken.
 
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arunma

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He's flat out wrong about cessationism. A good number of the "New Calvinists" are cessationist (Piper, Mohler).

If you will permit me to make a correction here, John Piper isn't a cessationist. I know because when I was in college I attended Bethlehem Baptist, where he is the preaching pastor. He said explicitly in one sermon that there is no doctrinal statement in the church to the effect that the spiritual gifts cannot be manifest today. In addition, our church often associated with Sovereign Grace Ministries, which is a charismatic Calvinist network of churches. And while I attended, we even had Sam Storms and C.J. Mahaney, who are professing charismatic Calvinists, preach the sermon for our Sunday service.

Just an FYI...
 
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AndOne

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I would have to disagree. His statement (below) is more than just controversial, it is inaccurate.
"Old Calvinism was cessationistic and fearful of the presence and power of the Holy Spirit. New Calvinism is continuationist and joyful in the presence and power of the Holy Spirit."
Driscoll should know better than to say that.

After taking another look at the blog and your post - I think I'd have to agree with you here. He shouldn't have said that under Old Calvinism folks were fearful of the presence and power of the Holy Spirit. In reality they were trying to be faithful to their interpretation of scripture and though Driscoll disagrees with them on the gifts he should have put it this way.

He's making an assumption based on his own perception. I agree it is over-the-top. Good to see he isn't perfect....
 
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JacobHall86

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I'm thinking there has to be a better use of time than debating on his intent in a blog post. I mean, I could be wrong, but If more people were concerned with engaging the culture and preaching the gospel to the lost, I don't think a miswording or even a statement that may be false would really be that big a deal. Plus, I tend to think that the people who actually want to see guys succeed in ministry will take their complaints to them in private, not public like some have done with Driscoll as of late.

Simply put, worry less about Driscoll, worry more about your community.
 
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