Mark Driscoll on MMA and UFC

[JM]

Mark Driscoll Mars HIll Church on MMA UFC - YouTube

 

[jehoiakim]

sometimes I love Mark Driscoll and I think he is brilliant, other times I imagine him as a 13 year old bully that is a bit arrogant about his own opinions and ideas... alas we are all faulted me. I don't really know anything about the UFC, I would agree with him men have tendencies to want to fight and protect which can be harnessed for something good, but I don't think it is as extreme as he wants to portray it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mark is a short guy, I met him a few years ago and I remember thinking he was short, then again, i'm 6'4 so most men are short to me. I from observing a few of his talks I believe he might have a case of the "little man syndrome" or the "napoleon complex" he seems to have an issue with control and that comes out when he speaks at times.

Don't get me wrong, I like him most of the time, but sometimes I think he is trying to hard to be manly. Real men don't need to be dominating and agressive 24/7, only in certain situations.

 

[GQ Chris]

Could be worse, like promoting a limp wristed, Ned Flanders style Christianity.

 

[jehoiakim]

true, but to be honest if I met the guy I get the impression he wouldn't have any respect for me unless i punched him in the face first

 

[GQ Chris]

^I don't agree with Driscoll all the time either, but I think here he's just trying to appeal to his constituency, ie. the yet to be churched YRR crowd, sort of like how Joel Osteen panders to the get rich quick New Agers who like his version of Prosperity/Health & Wealth Christianity.

 

[jehoiakim]

true, but driscolls words also turn others off... but he does have a church full to the brim of young manly men which i have to hand him because there are few other churches that don't have any let alone an abundance of them

 

[GQ Chris]

Sure, Driscoll does turn off folks like Johnny Mac and others, but hey, it's the niche market he chose I guess.

I'd personally rather direct my ammunition at folks like Rob Bell and the Emergents rather than Driscoll and the YRR's.

 

[jehoiakim]

i would agree with that, the christian "religion-scape" is becoming a sad and scary apostate, heretical or living dead/zombie church... driscoll would not be my biggest target at all, he is one of the more solid guys out there

 

[jehoiakim]

from a technical standpoint I think it is one thing not to appeal to a group of people verses turning someone a group of off to the gospel. John MacAurthur is a solid guy, and a little old school for my preference so he doesn't appeal to me as much. I understand you can't please everyone, but there are some lines Driscoll doesn't have to cross but he does anyway... like i said though he is far less a concern then others, yeah Rob Bell being one of them, or any of the standard denominations becoming more liberal... Sovereign Grace Ministries scares me a bit however, while I wouldn't call them heretical they got a lot of messed up cultural stuff going on, borderline cultish in my opinion.

 

[AndOne]

I totally disagree with his statements regarding what men are "made to do." I thought we were made to glorify God! Ya know - I have always loved Driscol but the more I see stupid video clips like this the more I have to wonder about the guy.

In regards to MMA and UFC - I understand the sport and have enjoyed watching it from time to time. But let's not make it into something spiritual, Mark! There will be no MMA and UFC competitions in heaven. Men were not made to fight - fighting is a result of the fallen human nature. Get a clue, Mark....

 

[JM]

Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Psalms 144:1-2

 

[tripletiger1200]

I do MMA. I think it is a fun hobby, and it is nice to feel like a man and know that I could defend myself or my loved ones if needed, but I think the problem with MMA is that it does not breed responsibility. Other martial arts, including the one I did before MMA teach responsibility in self defense, and trying to avoid fighting. MMA breeds a macho kind of culture where incredible violence of action is almost always a good thing. There is little control or talk about how to conduct yourself now that you have an arsenal of fighting skills.
Jesus says to turn the other cheek, so I don't think, extreme circumstances aside, that I would be fulfilling my duty to Christ if I got myself into a street fight and kneed someone in the face then choked them out. The better way is to avoid conflict and just man up and take the abuse unless you are facing serious physical harm or someone else is being attacked.

 

[AndOne]

1 John 4:
11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

 

[AndOne]

Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Psalms 144:1-2

Yes - as career military I have taken comfort from these verses many times. I don't think it justifies the statement -"we were MADE to fight" though. We weren't MADE to fight.

 

[gord44]

was a weird vid for sure. i trained MMA for 7 years. it was a great part of my life and i have several great memories, but i am glad I don't do it anymore. all it did was build up my ego and vanity.

not sure what Driscoll is getting at. If you don't fight, then you are fat and lazy? hehe. maybe it's just a bad vid and taken out of context. i do see his basic point about men, but I think that is a part of our nature that we need to subdue somewhat. walking around sizing up every other man to see who is 'the man'!? that's not healthy spiritually. i used to do that when I trained. i used to take great satisfaction knowing I could beat up most people i came across. thank goodness the Lord humbled me and brought my ego in check.

 

[JM]

I didn't find the video that difficult to understand.

Driscoll is saying men are aggressive and it's part of how they were created. He also said those who tend to pass judgement on the aggressive nature that leads to combat sports tend to lack understanding of it. (fat and lazy comment) Men are aggressive by nature and will seek competition in different ways to satisfy their inherent need for competition.

A good example, the intellectual one-upmanship on these forums, I quote a verse and someone else (misquotes) a verse. If you are have been humbled by God is it humble to boast about it? (that was a competitive one-upmanship statement used as an example)

1 John 4

I was out teaching at my brothers MMA club on Monday, working throws and take-downs. These guys come from all different walks of life and even though they compete against each other they have a genuine affection for each other. When they compete in MMA events, and they do, they don't hate the guy standing across from them. To use 1 John in such a way shows you don't understand combat sports.

In fact you could use anyone of the arguments against Christians watching or practicing MMA against football, boxing, wrestling...heck, even arm wrestling. Have you even competed on the football field? They is definitely an intent to harm when you sack a QB or take a running back out at the knees.

Nothing will be safe until we are all in touch with our feelings and greet one another with "hi de ho neighbour."

 

[gord44]

When they compete in MMA events, and they do, they don't hate the guy standing across from them. To use 1 John in such a way shows you don't understand combat sports.

They is definitely an intent to harm when you sack a QB or take a running back out at the knees.

funny point there. i remember before one fight i went to a movie with my opponent the night before. a few of the guys i fought i became friends with. there was never any hate at all. it was a sport. truth is i was more 'hateful', as you said, when I played football.

but i don't think the 1 John reference was meant to be anti MMA. in fact, MMA has hardly been brought up in this thread. i think it was directed more at Driscoll's comments about mens nature in general.

 

[GQ Chris]

I didn't find the video that difficult to understand.

Driscoll is saying men are aggressive and it's part of how they were created. He also said those who tend to pass judgement on the aggressive nature that leads to combat sports tend to lack understanding of it. (fat and lazy comment) Men are aggressive by nature and will seek competition in different ways to satisfy their inherent need for competition.

A good example, the intellectual one-upmanship on these forums, I quote a verse and someone else (misquotes) a verse. If you are have been humbled by God is it humble to boast about it? (that was a competitive one-upmanship statement used as an example)



I was out teaching at my brothers MMA club on Monday, working throws and take-downs. These guys come from all different walks of life and even though they compete against each other they have a genuine affection for each other. When they compete in MMA events, and they do, they don't hate the guy standing across from them. To use 1 John in such a way shows you don't understand combat sports.

In fact you could use anyone of the arguments against Christians watching or practicing MMA against football, boxing, wrestling...heck, even arm wrestling. Have you even competed on the football field? They is definitely an intent to harm when you sack a QB or take a running back out at the knees.

Nothing will be safe until we are all in touch with our feelings and greet one another with "hi de ho neighbour."

Good point. I guess the separatism movement can add to its list MMA as something that good Christians just don't do, along with drinking, cigar smoking, dancing. lol

 

[edie19]

I totally disagree with his statements regarding what men are "made to do." I thought we were made to glorify God! Ya know - I have always loved Driscol but the more I see stupid video clips like this the more I have to wonder about the guy.

In regards to MMA and UFC - I understand the sport and have enjoyed watching it from time to time. But let's not make it into something spiritual, Mark! There will be no MMA and UFC competitions in heaven. Men were not made to fight - fighting is a result of the fallen human nature. Get a clue, Mark....

not particularly fond of Driscoll - am not going to excuse him by saying he's not as bad as Rob Bell. He's pretty darn crude, which, in my opinion is in direct opposition to the Scriptural description of a pastor. Is Driscoll temperate, prudent, gentle (not pugnacious)? Is he a man of good reputation outside the church? Is he a man of dignity? Is he sober in all things?

then there's this:
Pyromaniacs: Pornographic Divination

It's pretty darn disturbing and raises more than one question in my mind. Three things come to mind when I view the video. First and foremost, if he isn’t 100% accurate in what he sees he’s treading on very thin ice – he could do incredible damage to someone’s life by speaking out on what he “sees.” There have been many lives ruined because of false recovered memories and we certainly don’t need the Bride of Christ adding to the problem.

Second, he’s speaking to an audience, sharing his “sights” in a fairly graphic manner. Do the listeners need vivid details of someone’s illicit sexual encounters? Is this an appropriate topic for the pulpit? There’s something rather prurient in both his interest in these things in people’s lives and in sharing his “experiences.”

Last, why would God give visions of the nature Driscoll describes? Where is the Scriptural foundation for his visions? Again, I see major contradictions between what he says in the video and my knowledge of Scripture. God, who is thrice Holy gives visions of a graphic sexual nature, of sexual sin? I don't think so.

 

[JM]

edie, the topic is MMA, are you hijacking on purpose?