Mariology

[repentant]

Isn't that what I just said? What is your point junior?

No what you are saying is that because we follow the Traditions of the Church, we don't have independent thinking, and therefore no free will..look at the convo, and tell me that is NOT what are you are trying to say..

Orthodox are united in doctrine and dogma. On these matters we can speak for one another because we are of one accord

Independent thinking? Why would we want that?

Because in matters of Christian doctrine and dogma, it leads to heresy

Or it might just lead to a personal relationship with Christ? God given free will is a beautiful thing.

So to you "independent thinking" is free will, yet our free will is excepting the Church...

 

[Hentenza]

No what you are saying is that because we follow the Traditions of the Church, we don't have independent thinking, and therefore no free will..look at the convo, and tell me that is NOT what are you are trying to say..









So to you "independent thinking" is free will, yet our free will is excepting the Church...

My God given free will is except false teachings. My God given free will is to choose the scriptures over unbiblical traditions. My God given free will is not to accept arrogance. My God given free will is to follow Christ and have a personal relationship with Him and to fellowship with the Universal Church. Etc., Etc, Etc.

 

[repentant]

You have a right to choose with your free will whatever you want. But don't say that we don't have free will because we accept the Church's teaching, and don't deny that you did say that...

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

What the fail to see in the Commandment is not to create false idols or god's to worship as a god. And yes Kepha, how do they explain the Cherubim on the Ark, and also the Golden Serpent?

No ones worshipping the ark friend, HUGE difference. It says NO bowing...do you bow?? Sorry, but it says what it says, and you can twist and turn all you want so it justifies what you want to do. YOU BOW to it..."NO Bowing" the Word says...and guess what?? There aren't any Arks in my church...so...your point?

 

[Hentenza]

Originally Posted by Oblio
Orthodox are united in doctrine and dogma. On these matters we can speak for one another because we are of one accord

Originally Posted by Hentenza
Independent thinking? Why would we want that?

On this instance I was joking with Oblio for answering a post that I directed to Jckstraw. Did you notice the smiley faces, or does the smiley faces do not mean to smile.

Originally Posted by Oblio
Because in matters of Christian doctrine and dogma, it leads to heresy

Originally Posted by Hentenza
Or it might just lead to a personal relationship with Christ? God given free will is a beautiful thing.

On this instance ME AND OBLIO where discussing the pro's and con's of independent thinking. I don't see this post being directed at you/

NOWHERE did I suggested that YOUR church did not have freewill.
You really need to read the context of the passages not addressed to you before making assumptions. If you are just disagreeing with me just to disagree, you are just showing your true immaturity.

 

[repentant]

No ones worshipping the ark friend, HUGE difference. It says NO bowing...do you bow?? Sorry, but it says what it says, and you can twist and turn all you want so it justifies what you want to do. YOU BOW to it..."NO Bowing" the Word says...and guess what?? There aren't any Arks in my church...so...your point?

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them

I think you should learn what is meant here...you think He means a movement at the waist...but that is not what He is reffering to..He is reffering to bowing in submission, which would be WORSHIP. By your sarcastic witty response (like always) you are saying we worship icon's, which is completely false. When will you stop the bearing false witness?

And I was talking about the Cheribums on the Ark, are these not images? But did they worship them? No, just like we don't worship icons. But it's ok, continue with your false accuations against the Church of Christ..

 

[repentant]

On this instance I was joking with Oblio for answering a post that I directed to Jckstraw. Did you notice the smiley faces, or does the smiley faces do not mean to smile.

On this instance ME AND OBLIO where discussing the pro's and con's of independent thinking. I don't see this post being directed at you/

NOWHERE did I suggested that YOUR church did not have freewill.
You really need to read the context of the passages not addressed to you before making assumptions. If you are just disagreeing with me just to disagree, you are just showing your true immaturity.

Ok buddy. I have a right to say what I want. You can't try to make things seem like they aren't. You couldn't do this before by adding things to Scripture, and you can't do it now..you tried to say we didn't have free will because we follow the Church. Oblio said independent thinking could lead to heresy, to which you replied OR to a personal relationship with God, then mentioned free will. So in this one statement, you said by us not being "independent Thinker's" we don't have a relatiopnship with God, nor do we have free will. Don't try to change it..

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them

I think you should learn what is meant here...you think He means a movement at the waist...but that is not what He is reffering to..He is reffering to bowing in submission, which would be WORSHIP. By your sarcastic witty response (like always) you are saying we worship icon's, which is completely false. When will you stop the bearing false witness?

And I was talking about the Cheribums on the Ark, are these not images? But did they worship them? No, just like we don't worship icons. But it's ok, continue with your false accuations against the Church of Christ..

You know what amazes me? That you are the only one..by reading your posts that knows anything. I am not bearing false witness against the church. I went to mass with my mother. I SAW WITH my OWN eyes..people 'genuflecting' if you will...to use catholic terms. I am sorry. That is what it is. Getting mad at me isn't changing the fact that people genuflect. It is still wrong. The ONLY one worthy of that is Jesus.

 

[repentant]

You know what amazes me? That you are the only one..by reading your posts that knows anything. I am not bearing false witness against the church. I went to mass with my mother. I SAW WITH my OWN eyes..people 'genuflecting' if you will...to use catholic terms. I am sorry. That is what it is. Getting mad at me isn't changing the fact that people genuflect. It is still wrong. The ONLY one worthy of that is Jesus.

You know what amazes me? That you try to compare Catholics with Orthodox. That is what is amazing. You know what else is amazing? That at least when I try to make a point, I use something to make my point with. You just say it. So obvioulsy you think YOU know everything. You, without knowing anything about Orthodox beliefs, try to say what we do and don't do. Who we worship and who we don't worship. Well the thing is, I am Orthodox, so I think I know more than you do about it...if you actually tried to understand or at least know what it teaches, than maybe you could talk. But you don't, you just babble..and I'm Greek, so I think I know more about MY LANGUAGE than you...why do I even bother...

 

[Kepha]

What the fail to see in the Commandment is not to create false idols or god's to worship as a god. And yes Kepha, how do they explain the Cherubim on the Ark, and also the Golden Serpent?

It can't be done. It usually just comes back to the old "well you guys worship Mary" by observing our outward appearance only and it is exactly what can start the flaming once we point out their error and they continue as has been done here recently.

 

[repentant]

It can't be done. It usually just comes back to the old "well you guys worship Mary" by observing our outward appearance only and it is exactly what can start the flaming once we point out their error and they continue as has been done here recently.

Funny how they TRY to say we break a commandment, while at the same time they ARE breaking one themselves...go figure..

 

[Kepha]

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them

I think you should learn what is meant here...you think He means a movement at the waist...but that is not what He is reffering to..He is reffering to bowing in submission, which would be WORSHIP.

Yes. And I'm pretty sure there was bowing down to kings and not one thing was said against it................Unless it's to Worship of course.

 

[Kepha]

Funny how they TRY to say we break a commandment, while at the same time they ARE breaking one themselves...go figure..

Yes. And lately I have been getting posts deleted and a couple warnings from some older posts I made so I'm really trying hard here to behave myself too.

 

[Hentenza]

Ok buddy. I have a right to say what I want. You can't try to make things seem like they aren't. You couldn't do this before by adding things to Scripture, and you can't do it now..you tried to say we didn't have free will because we follow the Church. Oblio said independent thinking could lead to heresy, to which you replied OR to a personal relationship with God, then mentioned free will. So in this one statement, you said by us not being "independent Thinker's" we don't have a relatiopnship with God, nor do we have free will. Don't try to change it..

Listen, junior, you need to grow up. You are actually attempting to bait me by making little comments like, me adding to scriptures, etc. It won't work. Why don't you go and pray about it. Learn how to behave like an adult.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

It can't be done. It usually just comes back to the old "well you guys worship Mary" by observing our outward appearance only and it is exactly what can start the flaming once we point out their error and they continue as has been done here recently.

OKIE dokie. SO the next time I happen to go to Mass with my mother...who is Catholic..and people are genuflecting....then they really aren't? My eyes are playing tricks on me? Care to explain what they are doing then? Explain so I am not 'ignorant' then....

 

[Kepha]

OKIE dokie. SO the next time I happen to go to Mass with my mother...who is Catholic..and people are genuflecting....then they really aren't? My eyes are playing tricks on me? Care to explain what they are doing then? Explain so I am not 'ignorant' then....

My post came from the graven image comment and I was merely showing you it was approved.


This may help you understand what is happening there in genuflecting.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06423a.htm

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06423a.htm

I don't want to look at your catechism...I want what YOU personally think then. You say you aren't genuflecting...so what are you doing?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

To genuflect [Latin genu flectere, geniculare (post-classic), to bend the knee; Greek gonu klinein or kamptein] expresses:


SO, by your OWN link you proved you DO bow the knee...that Repentant mockingly said you didn't do?? Am I reading this right? This is YOUR OWN link YOU provided.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Originally Posted by repentant
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them

SEEMS a bit of a double standard happening here...someone straighten me out...I hope this isn't 'brother doesn't mean brother" type of thing...genuflect doesn't mean bow down...BUT by your own link..IT sure does. So yeah, I did read the link...

 

[Kepha]

To genuflect [Latin genu flectere, geniculare (post-classic), to bend the knee; Greek gonu klinein or kamptein] expresses:


SO, by your OWN link you proved you DO bow the knee...that Repentant mockingly said you didn't do?? Am I reading this right? This is YOUR OWN link YOU provided.

Wow you read fast.