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Ah, so you do believe that the Blessed Virgin is the Mother of God. Glad we got that sorted out.I never said Jesus wasn't God and didn't have a Mother.
It has been explained on several times that is not the case. As the Mother of God, why would we not revere her and honor her? Surely her words of "All generations shall call me Blessed" mean exactly that?The "Mother of God" must be some kind of God herself!
Still is. I think we've seen a bit of that right here.It was originally used to defend the Deity of Christ and the Trinity.
Roman Catholics aren't the only folks who call the Blessed Vigin the Mother of God and/or Theotoks/God Bearer. For example, I'm Anglican. not RCC., and you'll find out Orthodox brethren also share that belief.Later, Catholics used it to elevate Mary to heights God never envisioned for her.
Different discussion, with no bearin on the topic at hand.She was not a perpetual virgin, with no bearing on the topic at hand.
Other points to argue if you insist, but none that are relevant to the fact that the BVM is the God Bearer, the Mother of God., was not, sinless, was not superior to all other women (and men), and is never called the "Queen of Heaven."
"My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior; Because He has regarded the lowliness of His handmaid; for behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed..."Hero-worship, or a form of idolatry, at worst, is my opinion.
Yeah, pretty much. Doesn't help support your arguments in the least, though.Though this may be read as Catholic hatred
And simply embrace whatever it is that American Protestants believe ay any given time.As brothers and sisters in Christ I would only plead with them to stop being so sectarian.
Which denomination is that? Most of Christendom venerates the Blessed Virgin as the Mother of God/God Bearer.and controlling in their denomination.
Sure. American Protestants., mostly.I know--probably falls on deaf ears. But maybe some????
Yep. It's still about that.I said in Post 18: 1) The "Mother of God" title originated with a different argument, with arguing for the Trinity.
Jesus Christ is God, the Word, the Creator. The only way you can argue that His mother is not the Mother of God is to declare that He is not God.Mary gave birth to a God-Man--not obviously to God the Father.
Baloney.So painting her as "Mother of God" has migrated into something else more akin with Greek mythology
No, she just has to be the Mother of Christ.The "Mother of God" must be some kind of God herself!
I'm not all sure that you understand your argument.Brother, I just don't think you understand my argument?
There's the "God-Man" again. Yet another "Yes, He's God, but..." maneuver. It ain't working, mate. The "Mommy" part was uncalled for.This has never been about whether the God-Man has a "Mommy.
Still there, as we're continuing to see. "God-Man", right?1) The "Mother of God" title originated with a different argument, with arguing for the Trinity.
A descripton of the Creator of the Universe of which you seem to be very fond. "Yeah, He's God, but...".Mary gave birth to a God-Man
Irrelevant. That's the tri-theist tack again, with God the father as the Real God, while the Holy Spirit and the Son are subordinate deities. WEe're back to defending the Trinity again, aren't we? And that's what it always comes down to.--not obviously to God the Father.
If you see the Holy Trinity as akin to a mini-pantheon, perhaps.So painting her as "Mother of God" has migrated into something else more akin with Greek mythology.
Nah, just a run-of-the-mill Baptist housewife whose name was drawn to give birth to a God-Man. Happens all the time in Greek mythology. Ain't no big deal.The "Mother of God" must be some kind of God herself!
Reading back over the earlier posts, I see you did say that, but in that case I don't know why you insist that the term has evolved in meaning to require a deification of Mary.You need to go back and read how this started. I said precisely what you said. I never had a problem with theotokos when understood properly as an argument for the Trinity.
Then it seems to me that your argument should be that these conclusions can't be drawn from Mary being the mother of God, not that Mary isn't the mother of God, or to object to the title on the basis that Mary isn't the mother of the Father or the Holy Ghost.So when theotokos is used to glorify Mary as "Queen of Heaven," as sinless, and as someone we should pray to, I denounce that particular use of the term, "Mother of God."
In all fairness, it was @Grip Docility who first used that, including in the part @RandyPNW quoted. I cringe a little every time I read that word in this context.The "Mommy" part was uncalled for.
@Jipsah and @jas3Reading back over the earlier posts, I see you did say that, but in that case I don't know why you insist that the term has evolved in meaning to require a deification of Mary.
Then it seems to me that your argument should be that these conclusions can't be drawn from Mary being the mother of God, not that Mary isn't the mother of God, or to object to the title on the basis that Mary isn't the mother of the Father or the Holy Ghost.
In all fairness, it was @Grip Docility who first used that, including in the part @RandyPNW quoted. I cringe a little every time I read that word in this context.
Respectfully, you’re seeming to miss that she gave birth to the Savior who is God. Unless I’m missing something, that’s not just something minuscule. That and that she was hand picked, so my question is why would you not honor her and realize the connection she has?-The only reason i see for saying Mary is the mother of God. Instead of saying Mary gave birth to the Messiah, Jesus or Son of God like The Bible states.
Is to elevate Mary to a position of deity. Because saying Mary is the mother of God by people who do. Is always accompanied by the belief about Mary that, she was sinless, that she was taken to heaven, that she remained a virgin her whole life, who make Mary the women in Revelation 12 and that she can hear and receive prayers. Making her all hearing and having some type of omniscient.
Respectfully, you’re seeming to miss that she gave birth to the Savior who is God. Unless I’m missing something, that’s not just something minuscule. That and that she was hand picked, so my question is why would you not honor her and realize the connection she has?
No one ever said she gave birth to God, but your post clearly shows you’re splitting his natures into two separate when both are not to be separated.-Mary gave birth to God's human nature, not God's divine nature. In Mary's womb these natures were combined to bring to humanity the God-man, Jesus
Mariolatry?
I did explain that in the clearest possible way. While "Mother of God" indicates that Mary mothered Christ, a divine son, over time the belief that Mary's role as mother of Christ came to present her as "Queen of Heaven," as a "perpetual virgin," as "sinless," as superior to all other women, and as someone to pray to or to have her pray for others. Her name is used in incantations, in rituals, and even to introduce posts here, as if invoking her name brings prophetic value to whatever is being said.Reading back over the earlier posts, I see you did say that, but in that case I don't know why you insist that the term has evolved in meaning to require a deification of Mary.
I've made my positions clear--you just failed to see them apparently? Jesus is the one we worship--we all agree that Mary is not to be worshiped. Paul saw himself as "nothing." Mary also is "nothing," just as we all are "nothing."Then it seems to me that your argument should be that these conclusions can't be drawn from Mary being the mother of God, not that Mary isn't the mother of God, or to object to the title on the basis that Mary isn't the mother of the Father or the Holy Ghost.
Nestorianism may be a topic that get's addressed in the near future. It seems to be undermining peoples understanding of the Incarnation quite strongly.No one ever said she gave birth to God, but your post clearly shows you’re splitting his natures into two separate when both are not to be separated.
No one ever said she gave birth to God, but your post clearly shows you’re splitting his natures into two separate when both are not to be separated.
In my opinion,-So mother of God does not mean she gave birth to God. Or as catholics and others of the same belief write Mother of God
So you do not believe in Mary's womb the two natures were combined by God, so God could bring forth the God-man to humanity.
You believe that in Mary's womb from The Holy Spirit the God-man came to Mary already one nature. So Jesus' divine and human nature were not brought to a union in Mary's womb.
This is simple Logic.
If you insist that Mary did not give birth to God, then, you are saying that the Man Jesus was Just a Man.
By saying that " So Jesus' divine and human nature were not brought to a union in Mary's womb." you are literally saying that Jesus was a mere Man and nothing more. You are also denying that The Word which was God, has always been God and was With God became Flesh.
John did not write that The Word didn't really BECOME flesh, but simply shared a room next to the soul of a mortal human that became flesh.
John wrote that God became flesh (period).
I do not say this to be rude, but to point out that you are unknowingly denying that Jesus is God.
I will correct the way I worded that. I apologize. Please forgive me. I will drop a mention and link after it is fixed.-Do you do this often, say people wrote and accuse them of saying something they did not write or say.
I apologize sincerely. I will leave this thread now, because I have obviously offended you, and you are rightfully offended by me, because I did mess up the wording of my post. I think demeanor on this thread is heated, because it is about such very critical doctrinal matters.-Do not apologize when you do not mean it, i mean you are giving winner symbols to other posters who are also saying things i said that i did not say. So really just keep you post like they are, it does not bother me that i am accused of something. It happens around here all the time, but i am not harmed by peoples opinion of me.
Yes, that issue has been dealt with repeatedly. Nobody in this thread, that I'm aware of, has a problem with saying that Mary mothered a divine representative. She was mother of a form of God.In my opinion,
If a person insist that Mary did not give birth to God, then, they are saying that the Man Jesus was Just a Man.
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