Marilyn McCord Adams and the Problem of Hell

[Peter J Barban]

Marilyn McCord Adams, who was a philosopher and Episcopal priest, developed an argument to refute ECT (eternal conscious torment). Her argument is candidly appropriated from the logical problem of evil by J.L. Mackie.

She begins with two premises
G: God exists, and is essentially omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good
H: Some created persons will be consigned to hell forever

The argument:
1. If God existed and were omnipotent, then God would be able to avoid H
2. If God existed and were omniscient, then God would know how to avoid H
3. If God existed and were perfectly good, then God would want to avoid H
Conclusion: If G; then not-H
(If God exists, and is essentially omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good; then it is not the case that some created persons will be consigned to hell forever)

This is my first time seeing this argument, so I am curious what y'all think.

https://cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/campu...l-A-Problem-of-Evil-for-Christians-pslyys.pdf

Marilyn McCord Adams - Wikipedia

The main flaw of this argument is assuming that there is something wrong/bad/evil with Hell. Hell is actually right/good/holy. God is good, righteous, and holy, thus everything that God creates is good, therefor Hell is good too.
God is love and Hell's loving purpose is to torment the enemies of God.

Rejecting the God-created Hell puts you on the opposite of good.

 

[Saint Steven]

I don't assume hell is unavoidable.
I assume the Bible is correct when it says that God is Sovereign and that he created Hell for the purpose of tormenting his enemies.
Thus, Hell was God's choice rather than something unavoidable.

Jesus teaches us to love our enemies, which is godly behavior.
Is tormenting your enemies in hell godly behavior?
It seems that some make our heavenly Father out to be worse than a pagan, or a tax collector. (traitor)

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor" and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Saint Steven]

The main flaw of this argument is assuming that there is something wrong/bad/evil with Hell. Hell is actually right/good/holy. God is good, righteous, and holy, thus everything that God creates is good, therefor Hell is good too.
God is love and Hell's loving purpose is to torment the enemies of God.

Rejecting the God-created Hell puts you on the opposite of good.

What is the purpose of the torment?

 

[Peter J Barban]

Jesus teaches us to love our enemies, which is godly behavior.
Is tormenting your enemies in hell godly behavior?
It seems that some make our heavenly Father out to be worse than a pagan, or a tax collector. (traitor)

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor" and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I have just answered elements of this is new post. I will quote it here:

"Hell has a bad reputation, even among Christians. It is often thought of as a necessary evil, an affront to the goodness and love of God. Some think that God was somehow forced by his nature or circumstance to tolerate the existence of Hell. Even some of the most devout Christians see Hell as an embarrassment.



But I tell you that Hell is a holy place. The creation and perpetuation of Hell is good, righteous and loving. And if you believe the Bible is God's word and the historical doctrines of Hell are correct, then you ought to agree with me.



1. According to the Bible, God is perfect, good, holy, righteous, and loving. God's every action and act of creation share these qualities.



2. Although everything that God creates is good, some things such as Angels, humankind, and the Earth have fallen and are a no longer good. However Hell has never fallen from the goodness of God's creation.



3. The purpose of Hell is for the torment of God's fallen enemies. This suffering is punitive, not restorative. In hell there is no way to be restored to fellowship with God. If Hell's purpose is not good then God is not good.



4. God is not “forced” to torment his enemies, nor is this something “unavoidable” as if God was double-minded. God sovereignly chose to create Hell and shows no regret about it. Note that God has had regrets, but Hell is not one of them.



5. Any human attempts to explain or justify God's creation of Hell will fall short of the truth because we cannot fully understand Him. Nevertheless, Hell does not lose its goodness when we fail to understand/appreciate it.



6. Since only God is good, only God can be the standard of goodness. Thus, God's Hell must be good and God's torment of his enemies must be good. You can only disagree by rejecting the Biblical revelation of God and Hell.



7. If you cannot fully love Hell, then you cannot fully embrace its Creator. A better understanding of the holy goodness of Hell will help you become more mature in Christ. It is worth your study and meditation."

 

[Hmm]

It seems that some make our heavenly Father out to be worse than a pagan, or a tax collector. (traitor)

Agreed. I simply don't see the point in worshiping a god such as this. How will it make your life or anyone else's better?

 

[Saint Steven]

... If Hell's purpose is not good then God is not good. ...

This is the only thing in your post that I agree with.

Eternal conscious torment has no good purpose. If what you believe about hell is true, then God cannot be good.

If your neighbor was torturing people in his basement, would you brag about his good character?

 

[Saint Steven]

Agreed. I simply don't see the point in worshiping a god such as this. How will it make your life or anyone else's better?

Agreed. And if God would do this to anyone, it's only a matter of time before he does it to everyone. A cosmic tyrant cannot be trusted.

 

[Hmm]

Agreed. And if God would do this to anyone, it's only a matter of time before he does it to everyone. A cosmic tyrant cannot be trusted.

Good point!

 

[Saint Steven]

I have just answered elements of this is new post. I will quote it here:

That helps me to understand your position, but doesn't really answer my question.
Why didn't Jesus teach us to incinerate our enemies?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Jesus teaches us to love our enemies, which is godly behavior.
Is tormenting your enemies in hell godly behavior?
It seems that some make our heavenly Father out to be worse than a pagan, or a tax collector. (traitor)

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor" and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Saint Steven]

Hell has a bad reputation, even among Christians. It is often thought of as a necessary evil, an affront to the goodness and love of God. Some think that God was somehow forced by his nature or circumstance to tolerate the existence of Hell. Even some of the most devout Christians see Hell as an embarrassment.

I guess I agree with this as well. For the most part. People are finally waking up to this problem.

Did you know that there are three different biblical views of hell?

Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg

 

[Lazarus Short]

I have just answered elements of this is new post. I will quote it here:

"Hell has a bad reputation, even among Christians. It is often thought of as a necessary evil, an affront to the goodness and love of God. Some think that God was somehow forced by his nature or circumstance to tolerate the existence of Hell. Even some of the most devout Christians see Hell as an embarrassment.



But I tell you that Hell is a holy place. The creation and perpetuation of Hell is good, righteous and loving. And if you believe the Bible is God's word and the historical doctrines of Hell are correct, then you ought to agree with me.



1. According to the Bible, God is perfect, good, holy, righteous, and loving. God's every action and act of creation share these qualities.



2. Although everything that God creates is good, some things such as Angels, humankind, and the Earth have fallen and are a no longer good. However Hell has never fallen from the goodness of God's creation.



3. The purpose of Hell is for the torment of God's fallen enemies. This suffering is punitive, not restorative. In hell there is no way to be restored to fellowship with God. If Hell's purpose is not good then God is not good.



4. God is not “forced” to torment his enemies, nor is this something “unavoidable” as if God was double-minded. God sovereignly chose to create Hell and shows no regret about it. Note that God has had regrets, but Hell is not one of them.



5. Any human attempts to explain or justify God's creation of Hell will fall short of the truth because we cannot fully understand Him. Nevertheless, Hell does not lose its goodness when we fail to understand/appreciate it.



6. Since only God is good, only God can be the standard of goodness. Thus, God's Hell must be good and God's torment of his enemies must be good. You can only disagree by rejecting the Biblical revelation of God and Hell.



7. If you cannot fully love Hell, then you cannot fully embrace its Creator. A better understanding of the holy goodness of Hell will help you become more mature in Christ. It is worth your study and meditation."

You are aware that "hell" is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible as having been created? Consider Genesis 1:1, where God made heaven and earth, with "hell" not mentioned. In the first chapter of the Gospel of John, it is stated explicitly that if God did not make a thing, then no one else did. No other Scripture which mentions the Creation mentions "hell" - I know, I looked.

So, where do we look for "hell"? I found "hell" over and over in the KJV, but it was always translated from four Greek or Hebrew words, none of which meant what most Christians think of as "hell." Looking further back, I found out that the 1611 KJV has both "hell" and "hel." Looking even further back, I found "hell," "hel" and "helle" in my bilingual edition of "Beowulf." Now "Beowulf" is usually classed as English literature, but it was written in Anglo-Saxon, which was also spoken on the Continent in those days, and the locales and tribal groups in the book point at Scandinavia. Still with me? Looking into Norse mythology, we find "hel" in the person of the goddess/ogress Hel, who was thought to rule over her afterlife realm of Helheim (House of Hel), where you were supposed to go to if you did not rate Valhalla.

"Hell" is pagan.

 

[Saint Steven]

6. Since only God is good, only God can be the standard of goodness. Thus, God's Hell must be good and God's torment of his enemies must be good. You can only disagree by rejecting the Biblical revelation of God and Hell.

Doesn't your equation fail the same test you judged the OP by?
What is assumed in this equation?

God is good, therefore hell is good.
(this assumes hell is good)

There is no data to support the idea that hell is good. (if so, please provide, thanks)

 

[Saint Steven]

1. According to the Bible, God is perfect, good, holy, righteous, and loving. God's every action and act of creation share these qualities.

If this is true, there can be no hell as you are defining it.

 

[Hmm]

No rational being would make such a claim.

That's correct and that's because no rational being would themselves want to go there. "Rational" is a very good word to use here.

 

[Saint Steven]

6. Since only God is good, only God can be the standard of goodness. Thus, God's Hell must be good and God's torment of his enemies must be good. You can only disagree by rejecting the Biblical revelation of God and Hell.

Where does the Bible say any of things you are saying about hell? The Bible doesn't say hell is good. In fact a closer look reveals some startling facts. Jesus says everyone will be salted with fire.

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.


The Refining Furnace

Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 “Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me. All of them are copper, tin, iron, and lead inside the furnace; they are but the dross of silver. 19 Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘Because all of you have become dross, behold, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20 Just as one gathers silver, copper, iron, lead, and tin into the furnace to melt with a fiery blast, so I will gather you in My anger and wrath, leave you there, and melt you. 21 Yes, I will gather you together and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you will be melted within the city. 22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted within the city. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have poured out My wrath upon you.’ ” Ezekiel 22:17-22 (Berean Study Bible).

But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He will be like a refiner’s fire, like a launderer’s soap. Malachi 3:2

 

[ozso]

The main flaw of this argument is assuming that there is something wrong/bad/evil with Hell. Hell is actually right/good/holy. God is good, righteous, and holy, thus everything that God creates is good, therefor Hell is good too.
God is love and Hell's loving purpose is to torment the enemies of God.

Rejecting the God-created Hell puts you on the opposite of good.

Jesus commanded us to love our enemies and to love our neighbor as ourselves. That said, how would you feel about being tormented for eternity?

 

[Saint Steven]

That's correct and that's because no rational being would themselves want to go there. "Rational" is a very good word to use here.

The Golden Rule should apply here.
No one should approve of others being incinerated.
Amazing that we would need to clarify this point.

 

[Hmm]

Amazing that we would need to clarify this point.

Its know, it's topsy-turvy. Reminds me of Alice in Wonderland.

 

[Saint Steven]

3. The purpose of Hell is for the torment of God's fallen enemies. This suffering is punitive, not restorative. In hell there is no way to be restored to fellowship with God. If Hell's purpose is not good then God is not good.

No human despot in history has devised such a cruel punishment as what you define as hell. Humans have laws about such things. Cruel and unusual punishment is not allowed.

In fact, I take it as slander against God to make such claims about him. Infernalists have turned our loving heavenly Father into a gangster godfather. Making us an offer we can't refuse. Spiritual extortion.

 

[Saint Steven]

Its know, it's topsy-turvy. Reminds me of Alice in Wonderland.

"Off with their heads!"