Marcus Borg’s Neotraditional Christianity

[jfer45]

Marcus Borg is a N.T. and Jesus scholar. I have taken a course entitled “The Idea of God” from Dr. Borg. I have read the following books authored by him: The Heart of Christianity, Reading the Bible Again For the First Time, The God We Never Knew, and The Meaning of Jesus (co-authored N.T. Wright).

For those not familiar with the lens in which he views Christianity, I will summarize.

The Bible is not the Word of God, but rather a historical product from ancient communities. The Bible is not God revealing God’s self, but an ancient community pointing to who God is. Emphasis is placed on a metaphorical-historical reading of the Bible. His model of God is Panentheistic. Faith is not about believing “iffy statements to be true.” It is about loyalty to one’s relationship with the Sacred and the trust one places in God. Jesus before Easter is the “Pre-Easter Jesus” or historical Jesus and Jesus after Easter is the “Post-Easter Jesus” or Lord, Light of the World, Bread of Life, Son of God, and Son of Man etc. Heaven and hell is put into a “suspense account” and no truth claim is made on the after life (this doesn’t negate that there could be an afterlife).

I am mainly searching for other Christians’ thoughts on Dr. Marcus Borg.

 

[Stan53]

The man is in error.
2 Tests which his statement must agree with:
1) Does he glorify Christ? Not sure haven't read any of his works and don't plan on any time soon but what this space in case I do.
2) Does what he espouses agree with the word of God? No. "All scripture is inspired by God recorded by Godly men"
Bye have a nice day!

 

[stumpjumper]

I've read some of Borg's books and as inspiration and devotional they are okay...

In regards to who Jesus was/is and what he said, though, he's guessing and has bought into the Jesus Seminar POV way too much...

2000 years later and people are still trying to reinvent Jesus. I take it as a testament to how important and salvific Jesus and his presence was then and now and the impact that God's incarnation has had on the lives of each of us then and now...

Pick up something by Brian McLaren if you want a current book with a slightly modern view Chrisianity, though, as he's more accurate than Borg in regards to traditional views of Christ

 

[JJB]

Did you read Borg's bit on his denial of Christ's bodily resurrection? No need to go any further.

NEXT!

 

[MapleLeaf]

I have read Borg and am not a giant fan of his.

If you want some pretty good reading, check out Bart Ehrmann, especially his latest, Misquoting Jesus.

 

[jubilationtcornpone]

Bart Ehrmann is no good either. In fact, none of the Jesus Seminar "scholars" are any good. They quite candidly admit that they are arguing from a naturalistic viewpoint -- that is, a viewpoint wherein God either does not exist or does not intervene in the world. Needless to say, this colors everything that they write, including Ehrmann's claims about how Jesus was allegedly "misquoted."

 

[PaladinValer]

Bible is not the Word of God, but rather a historical product from ancient communities.

He's right. The Bible isn't the Word of God. Jesus is. Saying the Bible is the Word of God is blasphemous and idolatry.

In addition, you've lied. The Bible to Borg is more than that. Why don't you be honest and tell all instead of giving misleading snippets?

The Bible is not God revealing God’s self, but an ancient community pointing to who God is.

Again, that's idolatry. The Bible isn't God's Self. God has only one Incarnation, and that is Jesus the Christ the Lord.

Emphasis is placed on a metaphorical-historical reading of the Bible.

Actually, St. Augustine of Hippo did the same.

His model of God is Panentheistic.

Which makes a lot of sense and has far less difficulties with a lot of conservative Protestant theology that is going around.

Do you even know what panentheism is? Quite frankly, Christianity has a great deal of panentheistic elements in it, though many do not realize that because they don't know what panentheism is.

Faith is not about believing “iffy statements to be true.” It is about loyalty to one’s relationship with the Sacred and the trust one places in God.

Faith to Borg is more than that. You've lied again.

Jesus before Easter is the “Pre-Easter Jesus” or historical Jesus and Jesus after Easter is the “Post-Easter Jesus” or Lord, Light of the World, Bread of Life, Son of God, and Son of Man etc. Heaven and hell is put into a “suspense account” and no truth claim is made on the after life (this doesn’t negate that there could be an afterlife).

What he means is a Transfigurative understanding of Christ, which is highly orthodox. We are to become what Christ is. Christ in some ways can be seen as a Pre-Easter and Post-Easter Christ: a Christ pretransfigured and a Christ posttransfigured in Complete Glory and Laud.

I am mainly searching for other Christians’ thoughts on Dr. Marcus Borg.

I suggest you get facts straighter and be more honest about what the man actually believes and thinks.

 

[Beoga]

Marcus Borg is a N.T. and Jesus scholar. I have taken a course entitled “The Idea of God” from Dr. Borg. I have read the following books authored by him: The Heart of Christianity, Reading the Bible Again For the First Time, The God We Never Knew, and The Meaning of Jesus (co-authored N.T. Wright).

Are you currently attending Oregon State (if so, good luck with finals this week)?

 

[BarbB]

I find Borg frightening. His writing led to my step-daughter spending a few years questioning whether faith was even possible and thinking that the Bible was a lie. I gave her some books by less intellectual men of great faith like Billy Graham and Charles Stanley and she's gradually recovering her faith. Shame on him for spreading his pseudointellectual deception.

Now, do you want to know what I really think?

 

[Quick]

I've read Borg, "Meeting Jesus again for the First Time." I think that he disbelieves in the doctrine of the incarnation and the resurrection. His thoughts of God seem to be along the lines of Tillich's "Ultimate Ground of Being" which ends up looking more like the Tao of Lao Tzu than the Yahweh of Abraham who curses with ruin all those who violate his law (or Christ as atonement substitute).

Isaiah 24:1, 3, 21-22 (New International Version)
The LORD is going to lay waste the earth and devastate it; he will ruin its face and scatter its inhabitants. The earth will be completely laid waste and totally plundered. The LORD has spoken this word. In that day the LORD will punish the powers in the heavens above and the kings on the earth below. They will be herded together like prisoners bound in a dungeon; they will be shut up in prison and be punished after many days.

 

[PaladinValer]

Wrong.

He doesn't disbelieve in the ideas of Incarnation and Resurrection. That's a load of nonsense.

 

[billwald]

I have heard Borg in person and he speaks as well as he writes. He appears as "Christian" as anyone else I have met.

 

[jubilationtcornpone]

I find Borg frightening. His writing led to my step-daughter spending a few years questioning whether faith was even possible and thinking that the Bible was a lie. I gave her some books by less intellectual men of great faith like Billy Graham and Charles Stanley and she's gradually recovering her faith. Shame on him for spreading his pseudointellectual deception.

Good for you. In addition to Billy Graham and Charles Stanley though, I would share some books by tremendously intellectual men who are also of great faith... people like J.P. Moreland, Gary Habermas and William Lane Craig. There may be some intellecutals in the atheist and anti-Christian camps, but there are some brilliant minds in God's corner as well.

 

[jfer45]

He's right. The Bible isn't the Word of God. Jesus is. Saying the Bible is the Word of God is blasphemous and idolatry.

Sorry bud. In this context, the Word of God refers to God's authorship of the Bible. This is the popular belief among many conservative Christians.

In addition, you've lied. The Bible to Borg is more than that. Why don't you be honest and tell all instead of giving misleading snippets?

Do you understand the meaning of the word "summary"?

Again, that's idolatry. The Bible isn't God's Self. God has only one Incarnation, and that is Jesus the Christ the Lord.

Actually, St. Augustine of Hippo did the same.

Now that's a snippet if I've ever seen one. Maybe you could explain in more detail St. Augustine's view of the Bible.

Which makes a lot of sense and has far less difficulties with a lot of conservative Protestant theology that is going around.

Do you even know what panentheism is? Quite frankly, Christianity has a great deal of panentheistic elements in it, though many do not realize that because they don't know what panentheism is.

I do know what Panentheism is and I do agree most are panentheistic and do not know it. Although, I think there are many who believe God is a distant, human-like being out there and not here and now.

Faith to Borg is more than that. You've lied again.

You are correct if you replace "lied" with "summarized".

What he means is a Transfigurative understanding of Christ, which is highly orthodox. We are to become what Christ is. Christ in some ways can be seen as a Pre-Easter and Post-Easter Christ: a Christ pretransfigured and a Christ posttransfigured in Complete Glory and Laud.

I agree. He believes, in short, the Christian path is about dying to an old way of being and and being reborn into a new way of being. Although, he does not believe that this is salvation in the heaven/hell sense.

I suggest you get facts straighter and be more honest about what the man actually believes and thinks.

He believes very little in the modern sense of the word. I would say he has a great deal of faith.

And on that note, Borg has questioned in class: "Does God really care what we think? Does he really care what is in our heads?

And yes, I do go to Oregon State. Probably shouldn't be typing this because I have a final in 2.5 hours.

 

[PaladinValer]

Sorry bud. In this context, the Word of God refers to God's authorship of the Bible. This is the popular belief among many conservative Christians.

Word and word are different. But even then, no where does it say that the Bible is the Word (blasphemy) or word (wrong) of God. Christianity teaches that the Bible is the words of God. Note the plural.

Do you understand the meaning of the word "summary"?

Yes I do. However, your "summary" isn't truthful.

Now that's a snippet if I've ever seen one. Maybe you could explain in more detail St. Augustine's view of the Bible.

Read On Christian Teaching, written by his own hand.

I do know what Panentheism is and I do agree most are panentheistic and do not know it. Although, I think there are many who believe God is a distant, human-like being out there and not here and now.

By "panentheism" is the notion that God is distant yet communicates with us very intimately through many means, including Scripture. The way we get to know Him is not through Scripture-alone or any one-way alone. It can be through many ways: Sacraments, Scripture, birds, flowers, kindness of strangers, etc.

You are correct if you replace "lied" with "summarized".

No, I'm right where I was

I agree. He believes, in short, the Christian path is about dying to an old way of being and and being reborn into a new way of being. Although, he does not believe that this is salvation in the heaven/hell sense.

And he's right. That's a very ancient view, shared among some of the earliest Fathers. I suggest you read something of them.

And on that note, Borg has questioned in class: "Does God really care what we think? Does he really care what is in our heads?

And does God really care? So long as they don't waver into notions that are contrary to the Nicene Creed, then does He care about? I'd argue it is better to be a righteous sinner than an unrighteous saint.

 

[BarbB]

I have heard Borg in person and he speaks as well as he writes. He appears as "Christian" as anyone else I have met.

Fortunately, God judges the heart, not the outward appearance.

 

[BarbB]

Good for you. In addition to Billy Graham and Charles Stanley though, I would share some books by tremendously intellectual men who are also of great faith... people like J.P. Moreland, Gary Habermas and William Lane Craig. There may be some intellecutals in the atheist and anti-Christian camps, but there are some brilliant minds in God's corner as well.

Thank you so much for your list. I don't know the others, but I'm familiar with William Lane Craig and admire him! Great suggestions.

 

[JJB]

Fortunately, God judges the heart, not the outward appearance.

 

[Beoga]

Word and word are different. But even then, no where does it say that the Bible is the Word (blasphemy) or word (wrong) of God. Christianity teaches that the Bible is the words of God. Note the plural.

I beg to differ:
Luke 11:
28But he said, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!
Mark 7:
12then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, 13thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.

And you could possibly throw in Hebrews 4:12 to the mix.

 

[Quick]

God punishes unbelievers in order to ruin them.

Psalm 52:5-6 (New International Version)
God will bring you down to everlasting ruin: He will snatch you up and tear you from your tent; he will uproot you from the land of the living. The righteous will see and fear; they will laugh at him.