Manipulative Mother-in-Law - Argh!! Help!!

[ReginaPhlange]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hiya....gonna try and keep what is a VERY long story short.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Background - Been with my partner for 8 years, lived together for 7 years, engaged for 4 years. He has a 11 yr old son (he's like a son to me too - biological mother rarely in his life). [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mother-in-Law has always been manipulative and controlling towards all her family and friends, but in recent months its getting worse and more destructive.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The straw that broke the camels back this time was this....Partners paternal side of family were coming over from another country where my partner was born for a family wedding. When my partner was younger, he spent a lot of time with his other relatives, esp his paternal grandmother, where he more or less lived with her for a few years.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anyway, as we weren't invited to wedding, mother-in-law was furious (this is MIL ex-husbands family she is objecting and angry towards....been divorced for over 15 years). We weren't bothered about not going to wedding as my partner hardly knows the people getting married! But we had arranged to meet up with other family member day after, inc his grandmother who is very frail and my partner was worried that this could be the last chance he gets to see her (and also first time that her and our son would meet).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In a phone conversation between my partner and mother-in-law a few days before family meet-up, she said "If you go and see them, it will show me how far down the list of people I am to you". She continued "You have to pick a side, my side or their side".[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My partner was furious. Told her she was manipulating and using emotional blackmail which she took great offence at. She said that she was ending the phone call and hung up (my partner managed to get a "I love you Mum" in before she did)....and that's it. Haven't heard from her since, that was about 2 weeks ago.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]However, she wants to have contact with our son (for some reason, she won't talk to me either!). She sent a message via one of my partners brothers asking our son to phone her. My partner told brother she can contact us, rather than going through someone else. So, she phoned. My partner answered, she only asked to speak to our son then hung up at the end.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Up until yesterday that's continued to happen. She'll only talk to our son then hang up straight away. However, in yesterdays conversation, she asked our son if he'd like to go over to hers at the weekend! I told him we're going out (true), so she said about going ovr tomorrow![/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We're his parents! Ask us if it's ok! She's never done this, her rule is "I'm grandmother, I have a right to see my grandchildren and I'll see them when I want".....I've actually heard her say this a few times.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes, shes grandmother. Yes, she has a right to see her grandchildren...but not when she behaves like this.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]She thinks she can manipulate and control her son, give us both the silent treatment (all because my partner wanted to see his family!)....and she still wants to get things her way by seeing our son? No! All he does when he's around hers is play 24/7 on Xbox...no joke. And we found out via our son that the first thing she always says to him when he goes round is "what have they been saying about me?" (she used to do this with my partner when he was little too).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There's more examples and it's not just happening to my partner but to his brothers too.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sorry to go on for son long, would be interested in your opinions and advice.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks for reading[/FONT]

 

[ann216]

my ex mother in law was just like that very contrlling and demanding and my ex husband what a mamas boy his mommy has to call every 15 mins or so to see wheere he is at that time 30 now 32 I am sure she is still like that thats why i divorce because my ex was like his mom the whole family is mental

 

[akmom]

Everyone has a controlling mother-in-law. I think it's just the nature of families. Parents must have an awful time letting go of their adult children. But you never really hear of a controlling father-in-law. So it must be that mothers in particular have a hard time giving up their caregiving role to their son's wife. I can certainly understand that. Because it's sort of universal problem, maybe it's better to just accept those dynamics and just try to facilitate mutual respect, instead of trying to change it.

I think mothers-in-law really just want to remain important in their caregiving role, to their sons as well as their grandchildren. Sometimes they're critical of their daughters-in-law, manipulative or unreasonable. It sounds like she has given you guys some unreasonable terms. You can still give her the validation she wants/needs, but you don't have to do it on her terms. Ignore the ultimatums, silent treatments or criticisms. Just continue to run your family as you see fit, and make an effort to make her feel wanted and involved too. I think you can do this without ever acknowledging her acting out.

Legally she doesn't have any "right" to her grandchildren, nor does she have any responsibilities for them. But as a family, she probably has a real attachment to them and it is good to respect that. I wouldn't call her out on any of her behaviors, or specify that she needs to speak with you directly, etc. When she calls your son, just casually mention to him that you'd like to talk to her when he is done. At that time, you can facilitate any arrangements for visiting. If she doesn't want to, then let it go. There's always a next time. It's probably a good idea not to talk about her in front of your son at all, but you might also sit down with him and give him a neutral response to stick to if she does interrogate him about what others are saying about her. For example, "Oh Grandma, of course we don't talk about people!" or "Mom did mention how lovely it was to see you last week," or "I don't remember them talking about you, but if you like, I can go and ask." Deflecting gossip is a great skill to start learning at any age.

 

[americanvet]

It is up to me as a husband to make sure my mother knows and understands my wife the the number 1 woman in my life and that there is not a close 2nd.

Boundaries must be set. If mother in-law crosses the boundaries tell her. If the boundary is she can't talk to grandchildren until after she talks to a parent (or step parent) draw that line in the sand. If boundaries are not set others will always try and take ground. If a family member sticks their nose somewhere it does not belong they need to be told. Gently if possible.

 

[ReginaPhlange]

Thank you very much for your replies.

Boundaries do need to be set, and that's been part of the problem. We've always made allowances for her manipulation and haven't really stood our ground with her. In recent months, her manipulation and controlling has become a lot worse with all of her children. By the way, this is more an issue for my partner, her son, than for me. Although she's 'cut me out', it's my partner she's controlling and manipulating, not me.

How any family member, especially a mother, can ask their child to pick a side in a family....I'll never know. And then to give the guilt after "it just shows how far down the list I am to you if you visit them".

More concerning is what she has or might say to our son. He's just turned 11 and has grown up with knowing his grandmother well. He falls for her manipulation...of course he would, he's only 11 and she knows he's vunerable! We've talked to him about what manipulation is and how to deal with it, but at the end of the day he wants to see people happy and will do whatever to help with that!

At the moment (we're just over 2 weeks into this now), mother-in-law will not talk to either her son or me. I've tried to talk to her at the end of phone calls but she hangs up. She simply won't talk to us....all part of having the control. So, we've turned the ringer off the phone and will not allow her to have her way. If she wants contact with her grandson, it will have to come through us.

This isn't what I would call 'normal' and although I appreciate how hard it might be to let go of a child, but my partner left home 15 years ago. If something is not on her terms, she's simply not interested.

I've been turning to the Bible to get a perspective on what God has to say about manipulation. I don't think God would allow any of us to be manipulated, I don't think He would put up with it either.

 

[akmom]

I am curious where in the Bible you found direction about dealing with manipulation. I got the impression that turning the other cheek and showing kindness were the Biblical reactions to when a person wrongs you, rather than showing them their place. This is how we "heap burning coals on the heads" of our enemies, so to speak. The story of Ruth and Naomi is a lovely picture of how a mother-in-law and daughter-in-law should interact.

The whole concept of boundaries and taking ground sounds a whole lot like a pecking order, and I think we can interact more civilly than poultry. It's natural to want to push back when offended, but a combative person does not respond to this. It just escalates. Whatever you do, I encourage you to show her kindness - neither acknowledging her drama, nor acquiescing to it. Eventually she will stop. Obviously there was a lot of tension and probably hurt in that divorce, and she (unreasonably) interprets your communication with her ex as nonchalance about what she feels she endured. No, it is not her business who you guys visit, but that's not the point. The point is that she feels wronged, and the only way to change that is to validate her worth. She thinks you have to cut off communication with her ex, but really all she needs is for you to make it clear she is valued. If she hangs up and denies you a chance to express that over the phone, maybe write a letter or go through the same silly channels as she does to deliver the message. Ignore the antics.

 

[lindart]

Everyone has a controlling mother-in-law. I think it's just the nature of families. Parents must have an awful time letting go of their adult children. But you never really hear of a controlling father-in-law. So it must be that mothers in particular have a hard time giving up their caregiving role to their son's wife. I can certainly understand that. Because it's sort of universal problem, maybe it's better to just accept those dynamics and just try to facilitate mutual respect, instead of trying to change it.

I think mothers-in-law really just want to remain important in their caregiving role, to their sons as well as their grandchildren. Sometimes they're critical of their daughters-in-law, manipulative or unreasonable. It sounds like she has given you guys some unreasonable terms. You can still give her the validation she wants/needs, but you don't have to do it on her terms. Ignore the ultimatums, silent treatments or criticisms. Just continue to run your family as you see fit, and make an effort to make her feel wanted and involved too. I think you can do this without ever acknowledging her acting out.

Legally she doesn't have any "right" to her grandchildren, nor does she have any responsibilities for them. But as a family, she probably has a real attachment to them and it is good to respect that. I wouldn't call her out on any of her behaviors, or specify that she needs to speak with you directly, etc. When she calls your son, just casually mention to him that you'd like to talk to her when he is done. At that time, you can facilitate any arrangements for visiting. If she doesn't want to, then let it go. There's always a next time. It's probably a good idea not to talk about her in front of your son at all, but you might also sit down with him and give him a neutral response to stick to if she does interrogate him about what others are saying about her. For example, "Oh Grandma, of course we don't talk about people!" or "Mom did mention how lovely it was to see you last week," or "I don't remember them talking about you, but if you like, I can go and ask." Deflecting gossip is a great skill to start learning at any age.

Your response is very wise and compassionate!

 

[ReginaPhlange]

Akmom - I do agree with you, to a point (I'll come to that in a minute) to act with kindness and compassion. That's why I've come to this forum to get some Biblical and Christian response.

As far as the Bible goes, it doesn't seem to mention manipulation, per se, but does mention more unholy traits. For example 2 Timothy 3: 1-9. I will also look at the references you make, as i am most certainly not saying that i have the right answer. This is why I'm here to question it too!


However, her behaviour can not be changed. Id be a fool to think I could. She's been like this since my partner was born, so over 32 years...why would she stop now? The only reason she continues is because she is allowed to do so.


Do you not think we tell her how much we love her? How much she means to us and our family? How grateful we are to have her in her lives? We've said this numerous amounts of times. She ends up telling us that we dont because we don't do things the way she thinks they should be done. Only if we follow her rules will she agree that we do love and appreciate her. In fact, on the last phone call my partner had with her (when this all was said), the last thing he said to her was "I love you Mum" and previous to that, had explained to her how much she meant to us and that it was unfair to take sides.


She won't communicate with us since, but she's happy to communicate to our son and ask him over (without finding out if its ok with us, because she won't talk to us).


Should we just be a doormat and let her get what she wants? What then? The whole pattern will repeat again. She will manipulate and gain the control. We can't make her talk to us, we can't change her thinking. But when we are faced with a closed door from her to us, but she still wants other things from us....what are we to do?


"Yes, its fine to ignore us. And yes, you can have your grandson stay over. And of course, you can fill his head with your manipulation" Is this what you would do?


We don't want this to continue, but we also don't want her to get "her way", she won't learn that she can't do this again. Just by telling her this won't work. Been there and done that many times.


How can you express love and kindness when they just won't hear or accept it?

 

[akmom]

I certainly wouldn't send your child to her place based on an invitation you heard second-hand. Maybe you're already doing what everyone suggested. I just encourage you not to get into a verbal altercation with her, since anything you say is something she probably already knows. Sometimes pointing things out just makes a person angry and makes them feel like they have to push harder to save face, you know?

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about what your mother-in-law tells your son when you are not present. You can't shield your children from everything they will hear, unless it's truly vile or something. I've never met a family who truly abstained from gossip. But if you know exactly what kinds of things she will "fill his head" with, then you can at least prepare him for that. For example, I still remember my parents telling me that kids at school might call others "fat" or "four-eyes," but that it was wrong and I need not be a part of it. Just knowing what to expect made me all the more confident about how to respond when such things inevitably did happen, and I still remember it 20 years later.

Are you just concerned that she will turn him against other members of the family, or are there other major issues with which she disagrees?

 

[Gavriella]

Turning the other cheek can be very hard.

 

[ReginaPhlange]

Thanks again for your reply Akmom - and I apologise, I feel like I ranted on my previous reply, sorry. Emotions getting the better of me!

Gavriella - this is true. Turning the other cheek can be hard. Especially when your child's best interests are involved!


After talking with my partner the other day, he told me that his mum also said that she will not be coming to our wedding if we are inviting her ex's family! *sighs* She is also turning other family members against us...something which we expected, this is a common to her strategy!


I'm not one for arguments, falling-outs, etc. I prefer to avoid arguments and to keep-the-peace. But rather than giving in to manipulative actions (which in on sense would give the easy life, but also won't deal with the issue...it will tell mum-in-law that her actions and words are acceptable), I feel we do have to stand our ground here.


Akmom, you asked what my concerns were regarding my mum-in-law seeing my child? The first thing she would do is try to turn our son against us and persuade him to live with her. Another long story (which I'll avoid for now), but due to circumstances, my partner had to ask his mum to temporarily look after our son for a while (meaning a few months). This turned in to a much longer stay, and took a lot of battling to get him to come back and live with us. She was the one who stood in the middle of us, manipulating our son to stay with her. So, shes done it before, she'll do it again. Sadly, she doesn't seem to think that children should stay with their parents! (She's also done this with other grandchildren, and has wondered why her another of her sons has kept his newborn away from her!) The problem is, is that we've all allowed her to get away her behaviour and have never challenged her. That's why I feel that we're right to stand our ground and show her that she can't get away with this any longer.


When your in her good books, she's a wonderful lady. When you're in her bad books, she's vile - she'll go to any length to get her way, doesn't matter if your family or not.


I'm fully aware that I can not shield my child from everything. In one sense, I don't want to anyway...they need to experience good and bad, they need to learn how to cope in this crazy world! But this isn't the more innocent of things. If shes turning other family members against us now (who are adults) goodness knows what she may say to our boy. I wouldn't put anything past her.


Anyway, thank you so much for reading my posts and taking the time to respond. I keep praying and reading the Bible for direction. I never keep God far away from decisions in life!


Blessings to all

 

[akmom]

I guess technically she is not your mother-in-law, but rather your mother-in-law-to-be. Your wedding will be a covenant between you and your husband, and does not require the attendance or approval of any other family member. Nor is it a battleground for your relatives to play out their long-standing disputes. It's a wedding that unites you and your husband in marriage. It doesn't unite you with other relatives, or divide you against other relatives, or force you to make allegiances with other family members. All you can do is invite your guests, and let them make their own decisions about whether to attend. If they come, great. If not, great.

Your fiance's mother doesn't have the right to make you choose between her and other relatives. Nor should you make her choose between attending your wedding or offending you. Sometimes it's really uncomfortable to be around people with whom you have been deeply hurt. Respect that and don't begrudge her for not coming (even if she presents her choice as an ultimatum to look like it's your doing after all).

I will try not to make assumptions about why you left your child in someone else's care for such a long time, or why there were issues with getting him back. But I think it's reasonable to assume that there is another side of the story. I do think that if this woman took care of your son for more than a few days, she is certainly an authority figure in his life and that does not make her "manipulative." That makes her one of his guardians, with whom he is probably very attached. So keeping them apart sounds like it would be really hurtful to him. If there were some shortcomings on your guys' part during that time she cared for him, and you feel she is expressing those shortcomings to your son, then it might be a good time to just come clean with your son directly and help him to feel confident about how the family is going forward. We all make mistakes, but acknowledging them and fixing them is what matters. Then your future mother-in-law's comments will have little meaning to him.

 

[BlissMommy]

I wouldn't allow her to have contact with my child until she learned to show some respect. It's not a healthy life lesson for your son.

 

[number3]

Hello ReginaPhlange,

This site might help you find what you are looking for: luke173ministries.org. There is a lot to find about all sorts of manipulation which in essence is some kind of abusive behaviour.

Your story resembles stories that are on this forum: outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?board=4.0 about Unchosen relationships

In particular the following post: luke173ministries.org/466793 about Setting & Enforcing Limits & Boundaries might be helpfull. And this one: luke173ministries.org/templates/System/details.asp?id=39548&PID=466801

Sorry for the non-urls. This forum prevents me from posting them...

"Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned….Titus 3:10-11 NIV. Better a poor but wise youth than an old but foolish king who no longer knows how to take warning....Ecclesiastes 4:13 NIV"

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hiya....gonna try and keep what is a VERY long story short.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Background - Been with my partner for 8 years, lived together for 7 years, engaged for 4 years. He has a 11 yr old son (he's like a son to me too - biological mother rarely in his life). [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mother-in-Law has always been manipulative and controlling towards all her family and friends, but in recent months its getting worse and more destructive.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The straw that broke the camels back this time was this....Partners paternal side of family were coming over from another country where my partner was born for a family wedding. When my partner was younger, he spent a lot of time with his other relatives, esp his paternal grandmother, where he more or less lived with her for a few years.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anyway, as we weren't invited to wedding, mother-in-law was furious (this is MIL ex-husbands family she is objecting and angry towards....been divorced for over 15 years). We weren't bothered about not going to wedding as my partner hardly knows the people getting married! But we had arranged to meet up with other family member day after, inc his grandmother who is very frail and my partner was worried that this could be the last chance he gets to see her (and also first time that her and our son would meet).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In a phone conversation between my partner and mother-in-law a few days before family meet-up, she said "If you go and see them, it will show me how far down the list of people I am to you". She continued "You have to pick a side, my side or their side".[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My partner was furious. Told her she was manipulating and using emotional blackmail which she took great offence at. She said that she was ending the phone call and hung up (my partner managed to get a "I love you Mum" in before she did)....and that's it. Haven't heard from her since, that was about 2 weeks ago.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]However, she wants to have contact with our son (for some reason, she won't talk to me either!). She sent a message via one of my partners brothers asking our son to phone her. My partner told brother she can contact us, rather than going through someone else. So, she phoned. My partner answered, she only asked to speak to our son then hung up at the end.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Up until yesterday that's continued to happen. She'll only talk to our son then hang up straight away. However, in yesterdays conversation, she asked our son if he'd like to go over to hers at the weekend! I told him we're going out (true), so she said about going ovr tomorrow![/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We're his parents! Ask us if it's ok! She's never done this, her rule is "I'm grandmother, I have a right to see my grandchildren and I'll see them when I want".....I've actually heard her say this a few times.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes, shes grandmother. Yes, she has a right to see her grandchildren...but not when she behaves like this.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]She thinks she can manipulate and control her son, give us both the silent treatment (all because my partner wanted to see his family!)....and she still wants to get things her way by seeing our son? No! All he does when he's around hers is play 24/7 on Xbox...no joke. And we found out via our son that the first thing she always says to him when he goes round is "what have they been saying about me?" (she used to do this with my partner when he was little too).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There's more examples and it's not just happening to my partner but to his brothers too.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sorry to go on for son long, would be interested in your opinions and advice.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks for reading[/FONT]

well, look on the bright side, at least your mother in law is passive aggressive type

it could be a lot worse you know.

my sister was married to this mama boy years ago, that was how I learnt about the true definition of mother in law from hell

her ex MIL was a real fat ugly harlot who was super domineering, directly

that is why I know I should not be saying, but the fact my sister is not married to that man and his family is the best thing that ever happen to her.

and I am happy God is righteous after all, and my sister got primary custody of my two nephews.

sorry for ranting a little bit...

but I guess what I am trying to say it, it could be a lot worse......

 

[ProudMomxmany]

And this is one of the reasons we cut contact with our "families". My MIL would lie her behind off about me. Everything from the children were not my husband's since he was at sea when I found out I was pregnant with a few of them, to I was going to divorce him the minute he retired from the Navy so I could get his retirement check (excuse me???).
My mother wasn't any better...she would tell my children that I was crazy, she'd rant and rave at me that I needed to stop "letting myself" get pregnant, crazy stuff like that.

We cut off contact with these toxic people.

 

[CelticRose]

Actually I would argue manipulation is a form of witchcraft because it attempts to remove a person's free will & control them. This is an abomination before God ~ who gave man free will. It needs to stop. I would start calling the shots & making the rules. Gently. Lovingly ~ but absolutely.

 

[Luther073082]

My mom can be like this and the best thing I can say is not to respond to or accept the manipulation.

If she won't talk to anyone but your son, then just don't call her. If she calls you maybe pick it up once a day in case she wants to apologize, other then that don't take her calls.

This isn't in my mind revenge so much as that you arn't going to tolerate being treated like that.

When my mom starts acting like that, I seriously just quit on the topic and don't bring it up again. We've decided what we are doing and if you don't like it tough, you don't get to run my life anymore and we arn't going to be intimidated by passive aggressiveness or manipulation.

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

My mom can be like this and the best thing I can say is not to respond to or accept the manipulation.

If she won't talk to anyone but your son, then just don't call her. If she calls you maybe pick it up once a day in case she wants to apologize, other then that don't take her calls.

This isn't in my mind revenge so much as that you arn't going to tolerate being treated like that.

When my mom starts acting like that, I seriously just quit on the topic and don't bring it up again. We've decided what we are doing and if you don't like it tough, you don't get to run my life anymore and we arn't going to be intimidated by passive aggressiveness or manipulation.

oh, that is interesting, I though your wife posted something on this forum once on how much she loves your parents, and what great in laws they are?

guess no in laws are perfect.

other than that, great advice!

 

[Luther073082]

oh, that is interesting, I though your wife posted something on this forum once on how much she loves your parents, and what great in laws they are?

guess no in laws are perfect.

other than that, great advice!

Don't get me wrong, we both love my mother. She helps us out a lot and she is generally very nice.

But she can get passive aggressive at times.

She is getting better as she's started to get used to the fact that she doesn't tell me what to do anymore. But we still see it on occasion.

And as you said, no one is perfect.

It also helps that I pretty much try to do all the dealing with my mom if she get's passive aggressive.