Man sentenced to 18 years for bombing church that was hosting drag event.

[Larniavc]

This got me thinking about the fad of ‘protect the children from the drag queens’ hysteria this forum had a few months ago.

“Penny told agents that he was trying to protect children by stopping the drag event. He detailed the ingredients and steps he used to make the molotov cocktails and described how, after growing increasingly upset while watching online videos about drag shows in France, he decided to attack the church, prosecutors said.

On Monday, Penny, 20, was sentenced to 18 years in prison after pleading guilty to two felonies: committing a church arson hate crime and using fire and explosives to commit a felony. Penny’s attempted firebombing of the Community Church of Chesterland came as some right-wing media outlets intensifiedtheir rhetoric against drag shows and conservative lawmakers made banning them or limiting children’s exposure to them an increasingly high priority. Meanwhile, the number of attacks against drag events rose.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/01/30/ohio-church-bombing-drag-show/

If this is the effect of the anti (insert current right wing anger mill topic) rhetoric what responsibility do it proponents have for the harm it does?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Good, that be will be serving time. I'm not sure why he didn't get life.

 

[Mayzoo]

Why was he watching videos (plural) of online drag if he feels they are sinful or unhealthy?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

18 years seems like a pretty light sentence given the circumstances.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This got me thinking about the fad of ‘protect the children from the drag queens’ hysteria this forum had a few months ago.

“Penny told agents that he was trying to protect children by stopping the drag event. He detailed the ingredients and steps he used to make the molotov cocktails and described how, after growing increasingly upset while watching online videos about drag shows in France, he decided to attack the church, prosecutors said.

On Monday, Penny, 20, was sentenced to 18 years in prison after pleading guilty to two felonies: committing a church arson hate crime and using fire and explosives to commit a felony. Penny’s attempted firebombing of the Community Church of Chesterland came as some right-wing media outlets intensifiedtheir rhetoric against drag shows and conservative lawmakers made banning them or limiting children’s exposure to them an increasingly high priority. Meanwhile, the number of attacks against drag events rose.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/01/30/ohio-church-bombing-drag-show/

If this is the effect of the anti (insert current right wing anger mill topic) rhetoric what responsibility do it proponents have for the harm it does?

Did he burn it down or blow it up?

 

[Ana the Ist]

18 years seems like a pretty light sentence given the circumstances.

I'm reminded of the pair that burned down that Wendy's in Georgia during the 2020 riots and got time served.

18 years seems sufficient if he didn't kill anyone.

 

[Arcangl86]

18 years for arson seems extreme to me. I mean I get the hate component, but this was essentially a property crime. 18 years is more then somebody would get for assault.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'm reminded of the pair that burned down that Wendy's in Georgia during the 2020 riots and got time served.

18 years seems sufficient if he didn't kill anyone.

Eh...I don't know if we want to converge on "least common denominator logic" for things like this, where it becomes a game of "well, this guy from Side A got a slap on the wrist for infraction XYZ, therefore, someone from Side B should get off the hook as well to keep it fair".

It basically ends up in a situation where the side that claims to want "law & order" tosses it out the window when someone who's an "enemy of their enemy" commits an infraction in the same realm...thereby, undermining part of their own argument.

To reverse the roles, it'd be like if someone who's constantly harping on the evils of private gun ownership took a stance of "well, since a conservative judge let a fellow conservative off the hook for a gun infraction, this liberal person who committed a crime with a gun should get off the hook too"

 

[Ana the Ist]

Eh...I don't know if we want to converge on "least common denominator logic" for things like this, where it becomes a game of "well, this guy from Side A got a slap on the wrist for infraction XYZ, therefore, someone from Side B should get off the hook as well to keep it fair".

I'm not suggesting anything as goofy as that...

I'm simply saying... 18 years is a long time for a guy who (I'm assuming, it's not exactly clear) burned down a church.

It basically ends up in a situation where the side that claims to want "law & order" tosses it out the window when someone who's an "enemy of their enemy" commits an infraction in the same realm...thereby, undermining part of their own argument.

You wouldn't agree that

2 plead guilty in fire at Atlanta Wendy's restaurant during protest after Rayshard Brooks killing

ATLANTA (AP) — Two of three people charged with arson in the burning of the Wendy's restaurant in Atlanta where a police officer fatally shot Rayshard Brooks in June 2020 have pleaded guilty after reaching deals with prosecutors.

apnews.com

This sentence is a little light? That's someone's livelihood.

To reverse the roles, it'd be like if someone who's constantly harping on the evils of private gun ownership took a stance of "well, since a conservative judge let a fellow conservative off the hook for a gun infraction, this liberal person who committed a crime with a gun should get off the hook too"

I'm consistent in my advocacy on gun laws....in that I believe only I should be allowed to possess them.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You wouldn't agree that

2 plead guilty in fire at Atlanta Wendy's restaurant during protest after Rayshard Brooks killing

ATLANTA (AP) — Two of three people charged with arson in the burning of the Wendy's restaurant in Atlanta where a police officer fatally shot Rayshard Brooks in June 2020 have pleaded guilty after reaching deals with prosecutors.

apnews.com

This sentence is a little light? That's someone's livelihood.

Oh, I absolutely agree that the sentence you're referencing is absurdly light.

What I'm saying is that the absurdly light sentence shouldn't be referenced as a benchmark for the justness of other sentencing.

Meaning, just because some BLM-sympathetic judge decided to issue a wrist slap to rioters who burned down a Wendy's, we shouldn't be citing that as a reason why a church bomber should get a lighter sentence.

We'll always be able to find examples of over-harsh and over-lenient sentencing for various infractions (when compared to the norm), I don't think that's good cause to change the norm.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Oh, I absolutely agree that the sentence you're referencing is absurdly light.

Alright.

What I'm saying is that the absurdly light sentence shouldn't be referenced as a benchmark for the justness of other sentencing.

Well I certainly didn't mean it that way.

I'm not one of those "they committed the same crime" types just because two people face the same charges. All crimes are unique in certain ways.

And the punishment should match the crime....an impossible task.

But, assuming 18 years is for burning down a church, because he disliked it's actions.....I'd say that's at least sufficient. Possibly a bit more towards overkill. I'm assuming he won't have to serve the whole thing....so it's not a big deal....but regardless, it doesn't seem low as you suggested.

The case I referenced seemed low.

Meaning, just because some BLM-sympathetic judge decided to issue a wrist slap to rioters who burned down a Wendy's, we shouldn't be citing that as a reason why a church bomber should get a lighter sentence.

BLM sympathetic or Christian sympathetic or drag queen sympathetic shouldn't be factor.

Did he detonate an explosive or are we talking about a firebombing?

We'll always be able to find examples of over-harsh and over-lenient sentencing for various infractions (when compared to the norm), I don't think that's good cause to change the norm.

Sure...but you said it seemed light. As if he deserved more.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Sure...but you said it seemed light. As if he deserved more.

Well, yeah... Obviously if someone commits full blown arson, "time served" shouldn't be thought of as being in the realm of reasonable.

But, what I'd like to see avoided, is the rationale of "everyone who commits infraction XYZ should get the same sentence a the most lenient sentence for said crime"

The (for lack of a better term) "favored nations" approach to criminal justice won't do society any favors.

 

[NBB]

to be consistent you should report things like this too
87 churches in Canada have now been set on fire or vandalized since these attacks began in 2021

I don't approve anyone settings thing on fire, but saw the gay chorus that was joking how they would come for you children?
Well, is not joke at all, they are coming and already did, for your children, like 25 percent of teens identify now as lgbt, which duplicated in some years, you think this happned naturally??? there is no such increase in other more traditional countries, without lgbt propaganda in all media and schools, and the amount of kids indenityfing as trans have greatly increased, and parents has been threatened with jail or jailed because 'misgendering' their own kids The amount of propaganda in favor of all this is affecting everyone specially young minds.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well, yeah... Obviously if someone commits full blown arson, "time served" shouldn't be thought of as being in the realm of reasonable.

Right. A light sentence.

But, what I'd like to see avoided, is the rationale of "everyone who commits infraction XYZ should get the same sentence a the most lenient sentence for said crime"

You're a little late on this I think.

Widely spread is the idea that we can compare crimes and sentences as if they were bingo cards to figure out which judge is racist.

The (for lack of a better term) "favored nations" approach to criminal justice won't do society any favors.

I think the word is "uniform" justice.

 

[keith99]

I'm reminded of the pair that burned down that Wendy's in Georgia during the 2020 riots and got time served.

18 years seems sufficient if he didn't kill anyone.

Here is a link to the most informative article in some matters that should impact sentencing.

Man sentenced to 18 years in prison for trying to burn down an Ohio church that was hosting drag story hour

An Ohio man has been sentenced to 18 years in prison after pleading guilty to federal charges stemming from his attempt in March 2023 to burn down a Chesterland church, a week before it planned to host two drag show events, according to the US Department of Justice.

www.aol.com

It says the church reported the damage early March 25th. One can safely infer from that that the actual attempt took place during the night before or in the early morning. A picture included in the article showed minimal damage. That the church reported it instead of the fire department upon responding would also lead one to think it was a pretty poor attempt at arson.

Those both would fit a light sentence. That he shows no remorse should push things in the opposite direction. The attitude displayed is likely to lead to him serving the full sentence.

 

[Pommer]

18 years for arson seems extreme to me. I mean I get the hate component, but this was essentially a property crime. 18 years is more then somebody would get for assault.

18 years sets the bar for “the next” guy to take note and make sure he doesn’t get caught doing what he has convinced himself was “the right thing”.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Here is a link to the most informative article in some matters that should impact sentencing.

Man sentenced to 18 years in prison for trying to burn down an Ohio church that was hosting drag story hour

An Ohio man has been sentenced to 18 years in prison after pleading guilty to federal charges stemming from his attempt in March 2023 to burn down a Chesterland church, a week before it planned to host two drag show events, according to the US Department of Justice.

www.aol.com

It says the church reported the damage early March 25th. One can safely infer from that that the actual attempt took place during the night before or in the early morning. A picture included in the article showed minimal damage. That the church reported it instead of the fire department upon responding would also lead one to think it was a pretty poor attempt at arson.

Agreed. I can understand why the hate crime charges though. White lives matter?

Those both would fit a light sentence. That he shows no remorse should push things in the opposite direction. The attitude displayed is likely to lead to him serving the full sentence.

This gets lost in the trials sometimes but professing innocence, or swearing you've changed your ways since being caught, or worse....laughing or otherwise taking pride in your crimes all can get you additional time.

These aren't factors that can be caught in any sentencing study though.

I appreciate the extra info. 18 years is adequate.

 

[Larniavc]

Well, is not joke at all, they are coming and already did,

Did you not read the OP? These kinds of inaccurate claims cause violence from gullible morons. Don’t by part of the problem.

 

[FireDragon76]

The particular congregation is part of my religious denomination (United Church of Christ). The Metropolitan Community Church, Unitarians, the UCC and Episcopalians have been targets of hate crimes before in the past, because of more generally pro-LGBT stances.

It's sort of ironic, but not really surprising to me, that actual hate crimes against Christians in the US, typically are not directed against evangelical fundamentalists, but those of us who welcome and accept our LGBT brothers and sisters.

 

[Larniavc]

It's sort of ironic, but not really surprising to me, that actual hate crimes against Christians in the US, typically are not directed against evangelical fundamentalists, but those of us who welcome and accept our LGBT brothers and sisters.

I think that highlights the general right/left divide of violence vs not violence.