Make America Guilty Again

[essentialsaltes]

Trump repeats respect for 'killer' Putin in Fox Super Bowl interview

Donald Trump has once again said that he respects Vladimir Putin, even though the Russian president is “a killer”.

“He’s a killer, though,” O’Reilly said. “Putin’s a killer.”

“There are a lot of killers,” Trump answered. “We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent?”

On Sunday, Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell was asked what his response would have been if President Obama had compared the US to Russia under Putin.

He said Putin was a “former KGB agent and a thug” and said: “I don’t think there’s any equivalency between the way Russians conduct themselves and the way the United States does.

“I’m not going to critique the president’s every utterance, but I do think that America is exceptional, America is different, we don’t operate in any way the way the Russians do. There’s a clear distinction here that all Americans understand and I would not have characterised it that way.”

So is Trump right that we are as guilty as Russia? If so, should we be proud of ourselves?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Trump's right though: the US is nowhere near innocent in violence. It's just that the violence orchestrated by the US government is carried on other countries.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I mean, I will say this: I do not like Trump. At all. He was the worst of a bad situation. But I have constantly seen the American left scream and cry out "America has nothing to be proud of! Everyone's a killer!" (condensed and played with, of course), but then when Trump comes around and goes "Yes, you are right. We are not innocent", everyone on the left starts gnashing their teeth.
Contrarians.

 

[durangodawood]

I mean, I will say this: I do not like Trump. At all. He was the worst of a bad situation. But I have constantly seen the American left scream and cry out "America has nothing to be proud of! Everyone's a killer!" (condensed and played with, of course), but then when Trump comes around and goes "Yes, you are right. We are not innocent", everyone on the left starts gnashing their teeth.
Contrarians.

The difference is Trump is putting the killer ideal on a pedestal with his fawning over Putin.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The difference is Trump is putting the killer ideal on a pedestal with his fawning over Putin.

Yeah, that bit can just be left without any comment. As I said: Trump was the worst of a bad situation.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It's actually quite clever -- putting America on the same moral ground as Russia will make it so much easier to normalize Trump when he starts using Putin's tactics.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Sometimes heads of state are in the business of killing. That's why countries have military forces. Putin started off his presidency with the task of killing Chechen terrorists, with which he was quite successful, and the Russian are quite grateful for it. Of course our press are nostalgic for the days when Russia was ruled by a weak, incompetent alcoholic...



Russia only uses military force to defend herself and her interests in own near abroad. Can we say as much for the US?

If we're comparing Washington and Moscow morally, I would definitely say Moscow comes out better - that has been the case for at least thirty years, but never more so than now.

 

[essentialsaltes]

then when Trump comes around and goes "Yes, you are right. We are not innocent", everyone on the left starts gnashing their teeth.

It's not toothgnashing; it's looking for a response from his supporters, who previously were enamored (one would think) of Trump's embrace of American exceptionalism.

Maybe it's not worth it, since we've reached a point where America can be both the best and worst simultaneously.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Sometimes heads of state are in the business of killing. That's why countries have military forces. Putin started off his presidency with the task of killing Chechen terrorists, with which he was quite successful, and the Russian are quite grateful for it. Of course our press are nostalgic for the days when Russia was ruled by a weak, incompetent alcoholic...



Russia only uses military force to defend herself and her interests in own near abroad. Can we say as much for the US?

If we're comparing Washington and Moscow morally, I would definitely say Moscow comes out better - that has been the case for at least thirty years, but never more so than now.

It sounds like America would be so much better if Trump behaved more like Putin.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It's not toothgnashing; it's looking for a response from his supporters, who previously were enamored (one would think) of Trump's embrace of American exceptionalism.

To be fair, from what I've seen of Trump supporters, the people who didn't like him only had to say one word about him and they'd be all over them.

Maybe it's not worth it, since we've reached a point where America can be both the best and worst simultaneously.

When was it not the best and worst simultaneously?

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Whataboutism is straight out of the Russian propaganda playbook.

 

[Saucy]

As a Trump supporter, I can tell you that we aren't swinging around on Putin's jock, nor do we think Trump is fawning over him. Agree to disagree on that one. We think having a good relationship with Russia would be a great thing for both of our countries and the world. What two countries on earth have been closer to destroying the planet with nuclear war than the escalating tensions between our two countries? And the decades of spying, the Cold War, etc? Children having to practice ducking under their desks in the event of a nuke be detonated? It was all very, very scary and we were SO CLOSE to that ending badly for both of us.

As for America, we are not innocent. I think our government can be quite hypocritical. Just look at Obama's response to Russian 'hacking'. He was so angry! Like, "how dare Russia interfere with our elections!" But Obama spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to defeat Netanyahu and get him out of office.

Flashback: That Time The Obama Administration Spent Hundreds Of Thousands Of Dollars To Defeat Benjamin Netanyahu

Obama approved tapping Angela Merkel's phones.

Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

So, we aren't against tapping and spying on our allies, attempting to influence the elections of other countries, murdering hundreds of thousands (maybe even millions) of innocent civilians, using torture tactics, arming one side or another of a conflict, hiding the truth from the people, etc. I bet we'd be shocked to find out all the things the U.S. has been involved in. There have been rumors for years that the Clintons have killed people.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

If we're comparing Washington and Moscow morally, I would definitely say Moscow comes out better - that has been the case for at least thirty years, but never more so than now.

The US murders dissenters?

 

[iluvatar5150]

It's not toothgnashing; it's looking for a response from his supporters, who previously were enamored (one would think) of Trump's embrace of American exceptionalism.

...and who also castigated Obama for his "apology tour". Maybe the difference is that they're ok with admitting the US has done bad things, so long as we act like those things were ok and that we're ot sorry for them.

 

[bhsmte]

Trump's right though: the US is nowhere near innocent in violence. It's just that the violence orchestrated by the US government is carried on other countries.

Agree. The CIA has been carrying out covert operations for a long, long time, which does include killing people. In regards to cyberware, we even bugged some of our allies, tapping Merkel's phone and intercepting their emails. We may be a little more subtle about it compared to Russia, but I think a lot of people are naïve, if the think the US is the innocent country, that is morally superior to others. I don't believe anything the intelligence community tells the public, in regards to their activities and I don't believe they are entirely honest with the senate, in private sessions as well.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Agree. The CIA has been carrying out covert operations for a long, long time, which does include killing people. In regards to cyberware, we even bugged some of our allies, tapping Merkel's phone and intercepting their emails. We may be a little more subtle about it compared to Russia, but I think a lot of people are naïve, if the think the US is the innocent country, that is morally superior to others. I don't believe anything the intelligence community tells the public, in regards to their activities and I don't believe they are entirely honest with the senate, in private sessions as well.

Exactly.

 

[essentialsaltes]

a lot of people are naïve, if the think the US is the innocent country, that is morally superior to others.

That's why I'm curious what naive Trump voters think of Trump's statement.

 

[bhsmte]

That's why I'm curious what naive Trump voters think of Trump's statement.

I can't speak for others and what they feel and since I voted for neither Clinton or Trump, I have views independent of supporting him.

To me, his statement was very politically incorrect, but likely quite accurate. I would get used to Trump making politically incorrect statements. He has done it his whole life and he isn't likely to change now.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

The US murders dissenters?

Are you insinuating that Russia does?

It's not toothgnashing; it's looking for a response from his supporters, who previously were enamored (one would think) of Trump's embrace of American exceptionalism.

For the record, I don't believe in American exceptionalism at all.

 

[super animator]

This is got to be one of those rare cases that I actually agree with trump on this.