Made in God's image

[michabo]

Can someone tackle the question of God's image? That is, in what sense are we made in His image? In essence, I'm wondering:

- does he have a stomach? If so, what and why does he eat?
- does he have lungs? Does he need to breathe, and why?
- if he doesn't breathe and if there isn't air, how can he speak?
- if he doesn't need to eat or breathe, does He have a mouth?
- does he have eyes? Why? What could he see, and would he use eyes?
- does he have kidneys, a bladder, bowels and other excretory organs?
- does he have any internal organs? Why?
- If he doesn't have any internal organs, does he have a torso?
- does he have muscles? When in space, our muscles deteriorate rapidly, so does God have this problem? Is there gravity where God is?
- does he have legs? Does he need to walk?
- does he have a skeletal structure? What is its purpose?

Does God even have a physical form or image for us to be based on? If we are unable to comprehend his purpose or design or to question his ethics and morals, and we are obviously not omniscient, then I imagine that his image does not refer to his mind, ethics, or beliefs. But I also don't understand why God should have a recognizable physical form either.

 

[MikeInNC]

I think you were getting closer to the truth at the end of your post. In God's image in such a way that we inherit some of His traits. Emotion, creativity, a spiritual being, a will to name a few. While we do not posess all of His traits, we still posess some, if only on an finite level.

 

[joyinchrist]

 

[nighky]

Here's the answer to your quesitons: If the bible makes sence, then the bible means exactly what it says, otherwise if it's wrong, then it's just a metaphor or something. The bible apparently makes hundreds of jumps from reality to parable and back again.

 

[Serapha]

Can someone tackle the question of God's image? That is, in what sense are we made in His image? In essence, I'm wondering:

- does he have a stomach? If so, what and why does he eat?
- does he have lungs? Does he need to breathe, and why?
- if he doesn't breathe and if there isn't air, how can he speak?
- if he doesn't need to eat or breathe, does He have a mouth?
- does he have eyes? Why? What could he see, and would he use eyes?
- does he have kidneys, a bladder, bowels and other excretory organs?
- does he have any internal organs? Why?
- If he doesn't have any internal organs, does he have a torso?
- does he have muscles? When in space, our muscles deteriorate rapidly, so does God have this problem? Is there gravity where God is?
- does he have legs? Does he need to walk?
- does he have a skeletal structure? What is its purpose?

Does God even have a physical form or image for us to be based on? If we are unable to comprehend his purpose or design or to question his ethics and morals, and we are obviously not omniscient, then I imagine that his image does not refer to his mind, ethics, or beliefs. But I also don't understand why God should have a recognizable physical form either.

Hi there!



According to the Scriptures, God is a spirit. When there are written references to God's face or His other descriptive physical parts, they are anthropomorphic, a big word that means... the act of giving human shape and characteristic to a god, in this case, to God.


Being made in the image and likeness of God is a reference to the "spirit" of man as in God being spirit. Our "spirit" is the breath of life that came from God at birth and which will return to God at death. Our spirit is the outer man and the characteristics that make us who we are as a person, our soul is the inner man, the thoughts and intellect. Who we are as a person is a reflection of God.


~malaka~

 

[michabo]

So, in essence, being made in God's image has nothing whatsoever to do with our physical appearance, is that right? It is more to do with our soul, or spirit or something. Does that include morals or ethics, or must we learn them from the bible? I know that the personal God is a very recent interpretation, and that for the majority of christian history, God was viewed as inaccessible and ineffable, describable only through negatives (not physical, not limited, not good, not evil). I don't fully understand the reason for this change. Are there any biblical verses which can describe this interpretation of God's image as spirit?

Second Malaka, thanks for responding. I know we got off on the wrong foot, sorry (i thought the thread was moved to a debate section and was deliberately looking for a debate - nothing personal). I had always imagined that, instead of god being a representation of us, we were a representation of him. Anthropomorphism is, as you say, applying human characteristics to something non-human, but I'd imagined we were deithromorphic (if you'll pardon me inventing words), not the converse.

Nighky: change isn't always bad. I would never criticize any church for including homosexuals or women, so if change is possible/desirable in some areas, it should be in others.

thanks for your insight.

 

[Jack Lewis]

The problem lies in our shallow comprehension of the physical and the spiritual. We too often make the mistake of seeing the spiritual as some sort of symbolic representaion of the physical, when the opposite is true. Our spirits exist eternally. Our bodies temporarily. When God made Adam and Eve, the Bible says He made them in His image. We know that they lacked the knowledge of good and evil so therefore that image wouldn't be a mental likeness. To say it was only a spiritual likeness leaves the words vague to the point of meaninglessness. In the end we are left with the physical, and the problem of seeing God confined to what we perceive as the limitations of the physical. There's our mistake. We assume our physical is THE physical, and don't consider that our physical could possibly be a simplistic representation of a perfect physicalness that God can indeed possess and not be limited in the way we are.

Imagine that I drew two pencil drawings of myself, and the two drawings argued that they must resemble me in some abstract way, since I obviously am not two dimensional nor made of pencil marks.

 

[Serapha]

Second Malaka, thanks for responding. I know we got off on the wrong foot, sorry (i thought the thread was moved to a debate section and was deliberately looking for a debate - nothing personal).

Hi there!



No problem!

~malaka~

 

[Svt4Him]

I know that the personal God is a very recent interpretation, and that for the majority of christian history, God was viewed as inaccessible and ineffable, describable only through negatives (not physical, not limited, not good, not evil). .

By whom? I think you're confusing religion with Christianity. "May the grace of the Lord Jesus, the Love of God, and the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" isn't a new verse.

 

[michabo]

By whom? I think you're confusing religion with Christianity. "May the grace of the Lord Jesus, the Love of God, and the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" isn't a new verse.

My source is "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, but in this case, everything she says matches with the works of the philosophers and teachings of the different times. You're right that the trinity is not a new interpretation, but as far as I've seen, god has still not been seen as being personally involved in individuals' lives. Until very recently, that is.

 

[Ken]

I do not think you could honestly read the Psalms (or many other parts of the Bible) and come away with the idea that God is not personally involved in our lives, and these were written several thousand years ago....

your noting that some attempt to describe God by way of negation is more of an Eastern Orthodox approach to describing God and His attributes, generally you will not find this among westerners, unless of course they are involved with the Eastern church...

""Apophatic" is "a term used to refer to a particular style [or aspect] of theology, which stressed that God cannot be known in terms of human categories." [1] The word apophatic comes from the Greek word apophasis, meaning negation. This negative way of thinking about God is foundational to Eastern Orthodox thought, [2] giving her "doctrine as a whole... a certain laconic tone," causing "outright reticence in approaching certain matters." [3]"

[size=-1]Footnotes[/size][size=-2]
[1] [/size][size=-2]Theology and Religion Resources[/size][size=-2]
[2]As an example, Metropolitan Hierotheos S. Vlachos [/size][size=-2]comments[/size][size=-2]: "We insist that apophatic theology is more perfect, while cataphatic is imperfect."
[3] Bishop Auxentios, [/size][size=-2]The Iconic and Symbolic in Orthodox Iconography[/size]

 

[Hostile]

uh... yeah. Does this strike anyone else as irrelevant?

 

[john14_20]

There are many theories regarding whait it means that we are made in God's image. The one I like is promoted by American theologian Stanley Grenz. He says that when God says "Let us make man in our image and our likeness..." it is clearly a Trinitarian statement. The Father, Son and Spirit are the creators of humanity, and they have forever lived in fellowship and unity, sharing all things with one another. It is this image that we are made in. We are made to be relational. We are made to be in fellowship with one another, to love one another.

 

[Serapha]

My source is "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, but in this case, everything she says matches with the works of the philosophers and teachings of the different times. You're right that the trinity is not a new interpretation, but as far as I've seen, god has still not been seen as being personally involved in individuals' lives. Until very recently, that is.

Hi there!







Here's some very "old" scriptures that tell us that God is a personal God and cares about us in a personal manner.




God is a very personal God and is involved in the lives of each of His creations. He has a total count for the hairs on your head (Luke 12:7), and He is aware of everything that happens in your life (Proverbs 5:21). God personally created man and formed woman, every part of each one. God personally reprimanded each one also.


David knew God personally and was a man after God's own heart. Moses was selected by God personally, as was David, the apostles, Noah, and hundreds of other examples in the Bible.


God personally gave David three choices of what He could do to punish him... and David picked from the three. Hezekiah was picked to have years added to his life...Only God could do that.

God has been involved in every part of everyone's lives since they were created. If God is not a part of your life.....




Guess what... God didn't move.





~malaka~

 

[chilehed]

This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Curch. I apologise for the messy formatting. For those of you not familiar with the Catechism, the bulleted passages tend to be quotes from other Church documents or the Early Church Fathers.
---------------------
Paragraph 6. Man

<A name=355>355 "God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them."218 Man occupies a unique place in creation: (I) he is "in the image of God"; (II) in his own nature he unites the spiritual and material worlds; (III) he is created "male and female"; (IV) God established him in his friendship.
I. "In the Image of God"


<A name=356>356 Of all visible creatures only man is "able to know and love his creator."219 He is "the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake,"220 and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God's own life. It was for this end that he was created, and this is the fundamental reason for his dignity:

• What made you establish man in so great a dignity? Certainly the incalculable love by which you have looked on your creature in yourself! You are taken with love for her; for by love indeed you created her, by love you have given her a being capable of tasting your eternal Good.221

<A name=357>357 Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. And he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead.

<A name=358>358 God created everything for man,222 but man in turn was created to serve and love God and to offer all creation back to him:

• What is it that is about to be created, that enjoys such honor? It is man—that great and wonderful living creature, more precious in the eyes of God than all other creatures! For him the heavens and the earth, the sea and all the rest of creation exist. God attached so much importance to his salvation that he did not spare his own Son for the sake of man. Nor does he ever cease to work, trying every possible means, until he has raised man up to himself and made him sit at his right hand.223

<A name=359>359 "In reality it is only in the mystery of the Word made flesh that the mystery of man truly becomes clear."224

• St. Paul tells us that the human race takes its origin from two men: Adam and Christ . . . . The first man, Adam, he says, became a living soul, the last Adam a life-giving spirit. The first Adam was made by the last Adam, from whom he also received his soul, to give him life. . . . The second Adam stamped his image on the first Adam when he created him. That is why he took on himself the role and the name of the first Adam, in order that he might not lose what he had made in his own image. The first Adam, the last Adam: the first had a beginning, the last knows no end. The last Adam is indeed the first; as he himself says: "I am the first and the last."225

<A name=360>360 Because of its common origin the human race forms a unity, for "from one ancestor [God] made all nations to inhabit the whole earth":226

• O wondrous vision, which makes us contemplate the human race in the unity of its origin in God . . . in the unity of its nature, composed equally in all men of a material body and a spiritual soul; in the unity of its immediate end and its mission in the world; in the unity of its dwelling, the earth, whose benefits all men, by right of nature, may use to sustain and develop life; in the unity of its supernatural end: God himself, to whom all ought to tend; in the unity of the means for attaining this end; . . . in the unity of the redemption wrought by Christ for all.227

<A name=361>361 "This law of human solidarity and charity,"228 without excluding the rich variety of persons, cultures, and peoples, assures us that all men are truly brethren..

 

[EspressoDuck]

uh... yeah. Does this strike anyone else as irrelevant?

Yeah, but then, a lot of these kinds of debates are. They dont affect our Christian (Or non christian) walk, we're just curious. Bored. Want something to talk about. It's entertaining to try and comprehend God.

 

[kris4h]

My opinion is that when the bible says made in gods image it means this:

he rules over us < us

and we rule over the rest of the creatures on earth < like sheep for example

and were happy when they obey

 

[michabo]

Few shephearders consider their sheep to resemble them in any meaningful fashion. I think it must go deeper or that line makes no sense.

cheers,
-m.

 

[set free in Christ]

We are created in his image (spirit). We will never die. You will always exhist. The big question is where. The location is only 2 places. Either heaven or hell.

 

[Achichem]

We are created in his image (spirit). We will never die. You will always exhist. The big question is where. The location is only 2 places. Either heaven or hell.

Back to your old tricks are we...When G-d say something going to die; it dies, I assure you.


Peace,
Datsar

The image of G-d is self concept...