Lying for Jesus

[Mahammad]

Are there any protestant or Baptist churches that permit lying for Jesus? To save Christians from other religions or convert other religions to Christianity?

I wonder because, I met many who lie for Jesus, and I noticed it's an accepted behaviour by some Christians.

 

[Supreme]

Undoubtedly, there are Christians who pursue the practise of lying. Christianity is a religion/world view. And, you've guessed it, it's the same with every world view. You can be 'conned' into believing anything, even if the truth of that world view has been twisted. Atheists lie to convert, Muslims lie to convert, liberals lie for votes, conservatives lie for votes... people are quite happy to throw away their moral convictions, so long as there are benefits for them or their group. It's sad, but it's human nature, and very much true.

 

[aiki]

Are there any protestant or Baptist churches that permit lying for Jesus? To save Christians from other religions or convert other religions to Christianity?

I wonder because, I met many who lie for Jesus, and I noticed it's an accepted behaviour by some Christians.

And what lies are these exactly?

 

[Emmy]

Dear Mahammad. Jesus died that we might live. Christianity is not only a Religion, Christianity is a loving relationship between Jesus Christ and all Christian men and women. I will not accept that there are Christians, who would lie for Jesus, and I say this humbly and with love, Mahammad. Why should we lie for Jesus? Jesus tells us again, and again, to love each other, and could any lie be more than Love? Perhaps you misunderstood, or you mistook some pretender for a follower of Christ?? Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[Aimiel]

Abraham was told by God to say that Sarah was his sister; but I don't lie, simply because I don't want anyone lying to me. I've never had a problem being able to tell when someone was lying.

 

[Mr Dave]

Someone asked me once, about whether it is ever acceptable to ever lie, for example to lie to the Gestapo about whether you're harbouring a Jewish family when they came calling. I agree with the view that lying is not good, and the Bible speaks quite strongly on this issue. However in Matthew 12:1-8 part of what Jesus' message is to not be so anal about the law that it becomes detrimental; don't go over the top, in some circumstances it can be acceptable to transgress the rules given to us.
It's not about specific churches permitting lying but being aware of the individual contexts one is in and the effect of one's actions. This is not a licence to lie, please don't misconstrue it as that. As aiki asks, what are these lies? The specifics of lie and context would be important in determining if it is possible to bend the rules, bearing in mind that the lie is still wrong, but in extreme circumstances lying may be the lesser of two evils. This is my own understanding on the subject still forming, a work in progress if you will.

 

[drich0150]

Something else to ponder is, your ability to identify those lies. For you what makes a lie? Is it anything that does not affirm the Muslim version of truth? Or is a lie in contrast to a standard or truth?

If you simply identify anything not in accordance with the Muslim version of truth, then know the Christians you have spoken with are most likely not in sin.

 

[berachah]

The Bible says liars will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Probably includes a few Christians and if my experience is anything to go by, all Muslims....

 

[Mr Dave]

The Bible says liars will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Probably includes a few Christians and if my experience is anything to go by, all Muslims....

Probably includes everybody, I'd have thought.

 

[Mahammad]

Undoubtedly, there are Christians who pursue the practise of lying. Christianity is a religion/world view. And, you've guessed it, it's the same with every world view. You can be 'conned' into believing anything, even if the truth of that world view has been twisted. Atheists lie to convert, Muslims lie to convert, liberals lie for votes, conservatives lie for votes... people are quite happy to throw away their moral convictions, so long as there are benefits for them or their group. It's sad, but it's human nature, and very much true.

Aren't there any evangelizing classes in religious schools and churches? Don't they teach them how to evangelize properly? Because I'd respect someone who would do it in a proper manner.

 

[Mahammad]

And what lies are these exactly?

Many kinds of lies, for example: Christians never murder in the name of christ, atheists hate us for our religion, Islam wants all non-Muslims dead.

 

[Mahammad]

Dear Mahammad. Jesus died that we might live. Christianity is not only a Religion, Christianity is a loving relationship between Jesus Christ and all Christian men and women. I will not accept that there are Christians, who would lie for Jesus, and I say this humbly and with love, Mahammad. Why should we lie for Jesus? Jesus tells us again, and again, to love each other, and could any lie be more than Love? Perhaps you misunderstood, or you mistook some pretender for a follower of Christ?? Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

I'm glade you don't approve lying in the name of your religion.

 

[Mahammad]

Abraham was told by God to say that Sarah was his sister; but I don't lie, simply because I don't want anyone lying to me. I've never had a problem being able to tell when someone was lying.

Maybe it was logical at that time when he had to lie to save his life, but I agree with you, I don't like lying because I don't want anyone to lie to me.

 

[Mahammad]

Someone asked me once, about whether it is ever acceptable to ever lie, for example to lie to the Gestapo about whether you're harbouring a Jewish family when they came calling. I agree with the view that lying is not good, and the Bible speaks quite strongly on this issue. However in Matthew 12:1-8 part of what Jesus' message is to not be so anal about the law that it becomes detrimental; don't go over the top, in some circumstances it can be acceptable to transgress the rules given to us.
It's not about specific churches permitting lying but being aware of the individual contexts one is in and the effect of one's actions. This is not a licence to lie, please don't misconstrue it as that. As aiki asks, what are these lies? The specifics of lie and context would be important in determining if it is possible to bend the rules, bearing in mind that the lie is still wrong, but in extreme circumstances lying may be the lesser of two evils. This is my own understanding on the subject still forming, a work in progress if you will.

I wouldn't consider lying is bad when it happens in situations like when questioned by Nazi officers. I think Christians should aware the Christians who lie that they do nothing but hurt their religion.

Something else to ponder is, your ability to identify those lies. For you what makes a lie? Is it anything that does not affirm the Muslim version of truth? Or is a lie in contrast to a standard or truth?

If you simply identify anything not in accordance with the Muslim version of truth, then know the Christians you have spoken with are most likely not in sin.

I didn't and nobody mentioned Muslims, why do you have to force Islam and Muslims into the question? We are talking about Christianity here.

The Bible says liars will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Probably includes a few Christians and if my experience is anything to go by, all Muslims....

again Muslims got nothing to do with this thread...

 

[aiki]

Many kinds of lies, for example: Christians never murder in the name of christ

Many have murdered in the name of Christ, but they do so in direct contradiction to the edicts of Christ and thus reveal that they are not truly Christians.

atheists hate us for our religion,

I have met many atheists who do hate theists of any stripe. This is no lie.

Islam wants all non-Muslims dead.

Are you suggesting there is no basis in fact for this idea? A quick net search turns up much evidence in support of this "lie."

Selah.

 

[drich0150]

I didn't and nobody mentioned Muslims, why do you have to force Islam and Muslims into the question? We are talking about Christianity here.

again Muslims got nothing to do with this thread...

They do if the truth in which you use to determine lies are from a muslim only pov.

 

[Harry3142]

Mahammad-

From the examples you've given I suspect that you have witnessed Christianity and the cross being used as a manipulative device rather than being honestly portrayed. We do have some churches on the radical end of Christianity, as well as some sects, which give Christ lip-service while demanding that we accept their theologies in order to merit salvation.

In some cases their tactic is to get their laity so focussed on condemning a certain group of people, such as gays or muslims, that they don't realize what the heirarchy is actually up to, namely, cementing their own power. Rather than teaching their members that it is only God himself to whom we must answer, they persuade the people through chicanery, bullying and intimidation that it is the heirarchy itself that must be answered to. They attempt to reduce God to the status of a religious icon supporting whatever belief system that they have contrived.

As for what Christians are to approve of, what we are to reject, and the limits within which all our actions are to be contained, here is the 'condensed version', taken directly from Scripture:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

We as Christians recognize this as our code of conduct. Those feelings and actions which are listed in paragraph #2 are indications of the sinful nature still trying to wreak havoc.

But it is not enough for us to shun the acts of the sinful nature. Our actions, and even our reactions, must conform to 'the fruit of the Spirit', listed in paragraph #3. Every feeling, every thought, and every action that we as Christians have or perform is to have as its root those 'fruits'. When the feelings, thoughts and actions go outside those borders, when they fail to fit inside those parameters, we have 'backslid' to the sinful nature.

There are no exceptions to this. As Christians we firmly believe that we have the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is he who brings with him the fruits we see listed in paragraph #3. It is he who battles our sinful nature, subdues it for us, and replaces it with his fruits. So what God himself has seen fit to instill in us (the fruits), thereby quite literally creating in us a new heart, we are to welcome into our lives. And then our lives are to reflect those fruits.

 

[Chuck Finley]

Are there any protestant or Baptist churches that permit lying for Jesus? To save Christians from other religions or convert other religions to Christianity?

I wonder because, I met many who lie for Jesus, and I noticed it's an accepted behaviour by some Christians.

No, it isn't taught and it isn't acceptable.

 

[Chuck Finley]

Aren't there any evangelizing classes in religious schools and churches? Don't they teach them how to evangelize properly? Because I'd respect someone who would do it in a proper manner.

Yes. Some churches, such as mine, have entire ministries devoted to evangelism and train their members in great detail how to evangelize.

 

[Key]

Are there any protestant or Baptist churches that permit lying for Jesus? To save Christians from other religions or convert other religions to Christianity?

I wonder because, I met many who lie for Jesus, and I noticed it's an accepted behaviour by some Christians.

All Christians tell the truth as they know it.

If perceptions of other religions come across as violent, like Islamic flying planes into buildings in the name of their god claiming Jihad, gives them a bad appearance, that is their own fault, not ours for thinking they are nut jobs over it.

All Wars that involved the Christian religion were started for social political motives, as Jesus has never told us to go out and slay in his name. However, government leaders do use religion to rally the masses and boost moral. this is not a war fought for religious purposes, it is still a political war with leaders using religion as a tool.

As for the torture by the church during the inquisition, in their mind, anything to elicit a confession to save the soul, even at the cost of the body, was acceptable "If your eye causes you to sin..." Most (if not all) Christians today do not accept that behavior nor do they support it, even if at the time the secular government was far more brutal to people, that did not excuse the church their wrong doing in that regard.

But none of this is unknown to Christians, and Christians do not lie in the name of Jesus, they tell the truth as best they know it.

Much the same way I suffer though pages and pages of ignorance about my own religion form the hands of people who do not follow it, people like you who spout misconceptions as fact and what have you, and say things you think are true without knowing if they are or not, are you lying against Jesus or just ill informed?