LUST IS ADULTERY Mt. 5:28

[discipler7]

What about a First century married Jewish woman who enticed and had sexual intercourse with 1 or more young unmarried man.?

.

She would be put to death, along with any of the men she had intercourse with who were not her husband. Unless she was outside the city limits, where it would be assumed that she cried out for help and no one could hear her. Then only the men would be put to death. See Deuteronomy 22:22-27.

Not true.
.
A First century married Jewish woman who enticed and had sexual intercourse with 1 or more young unmarried man would not be put to death, along with any of the men she had intercourse with who were not her husband.
....... The First century Jewish Temple rulers had no legal authority to put any Jew to death under Moses Law. Only the Roman rulers had the authority to do so, eg the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, authorized Jesus Christ to be put to death by crucifixion, even though it was the Jewish Temple rulers who made false accusations against Jesus as the rebel "King of the Jews". Roman Law permitted adultery, fornication, incest, sodomy, homosexuality and prostitution but not insurrection/rebellion.

Similarly, the 21st century US Church has no legal authority to put to death a married Christian woman who enticed and had sexual intercourse with 1 or more young unmarried man, along with any of the men she had intercourse with who were not her husband. US Law permits adultery, fornication, sodomy and homosexuality.
....... This similarly applies to 21st century US Jewish synagogues, ie they do not have the legal authority to put Jewish adulterers to death as per Moses Law.

 

[discipler7]

One "can commit" adultery ACCORDING TO PREVAILING LAW.

.
The question is, can a Jewish adulterer be put to death, as per Moses Law, eg during the 1st century, the 21st century, etc.?

In Saudi Arabia today, they still stone adulterers to death, as per Islamic Sharia Law.
....... In the US today, no adulterers or homosexuals or witches are put to death, as per US Law.

 

[AFrazier]

I guess there wasn't "bigamy" either for men or women?

Bigamy and polygamy are essentially the same thing. It's marrying more than one person. The Jewish culture was accepting of men having multiple wives.

 

[AFrazier]

.
Actually, a First century married Jewish man could commit all the adultery he wanted, even fornication, incest(1COR.5:1-5) and homosexuality, because Roman Law was in force then, not Moses Law. Roman Law permitted adultery, fornication, incest, homosexuality, prostitution, etc.
....... Similarly, a 21st century married US Christian man can commit all the adultery he wants, even fornication and homosexuality, because US Law is in force, not Moses Law.

At JOHN.8, if Jesus Christ had pushed for the enforcement of Moses Law and agreed to the Jewish adulteress being stoned to death, the Pharisees would have reported Him to the Roman rulers and Jesus would have been crucified for instigating a murder.

You are taking it away from its natural context. The only evidence we have of the Jews not being allowed to execute capital punishment is from the Talmud, beginning forty years before the destruction of the temple. That would post date the sermon on the mount.

It was not lawful for a man to commit adultery. It was a capital crime. But you are trying to define adultery for a first century Jewish man by a twenty-first century understanding of adultery.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Lust means viewing or treating a child of God, another human being, as an object I can use for my own pleasure.

You mean what you do mostly with your wife?

(Almost said "You mean what you do mostly with your life?")

 

[mark kennedy]

You are taking it away from its natural context. The only evidence we have of the Jews not being allowed to execute capital punishment is from the Talmud, beginning forty years before the destruction of the temple. That would post date the sermon on the mount.

It was not lawful for a man to commit adultery. It was a capital crime. But you are trying to define adultery for a first century Jewish man by a twenty-first century understanding of adultery.

I think part of that was due to inheritance, the child of an adulterous affair could devastate families.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

I think part of that was due to inheritance, the child of an adulterous affair could devastate families.

ANY CHILD could do that.

Unless no child could do it.

 

[mark kennedy]

ANY CHILD could do that.

Unless no child could do it.

You don't understand, property wasn't usually bought, it was inherited. An illegitimate heir would have no grounds for an inheritance and therefore would end up a servant or be exiled. This isn't just an unwanted pregnancy, the future of the whole family could hang in the balance, that's why it was a capitol offense, it was a crime against society.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

You don't understand, property wasn't usually bought, it was inherited. An illegitimate heir would have no grounds for an inheritance and therefore would end up a servant or be exiled. This isn't just an unwanted pregnancy, the future of the whole family could hang in the balance, that's why it was a capitol offense, it was a crime against society.

Perhaps we should re-introduce EXILING, being exiled?

Seems to have helped then - would get rid of some illegitimacy.

 

[mark kennedy]

Perhaps we should re-introduce EXILING, being exiled?

Seems to have helped then - would get rid of some illegitimacy.

There has been something of a population explosion since then, the logistics doesn't make that practical.

 

[discipler7]

It was not lawful for a man to commit adultery. It was a capital crime. ...

But you are trying to define adultery for a first century Jewish man by a twenty-first century understanding of adultery.

No. 1st century Judea was under Roman rule. Adultery was not a capital crime under Roman Law. 1COR.5:1-5 says that incest was also not a crime under Roman Law.
....... It would have been a capital crime for any 1st century Jew to stone a Jewish adulteress or incestor to death = the stoners would have been crucified by the Roman rulers for committing murder.(cf; JOHN.8)
....... Similarly for any 21st century Jew in USA who stone a Jewish adulteress or incestor to death.

Keep in mind that the Jewish nation, ie Judah and Israel, came under foreign rule from about 800BC onwards, ie by the Empires of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome before all the Jews were expelled from Judea in 70AD. Hence, many Jews became refugees in Europe.

From 800BC onwards, the Jewish Temple rulers had no legal jurisdiction over the Jews, only religious jurisdiction. This was the rule for the conquered.
....... This was similarly how the Imperial British Empire ruled her colonies from about 1500AD onwards, ie British Law reigned over the colonies, including the US colonies during the 17th century. Hence, India today still has the British colonial-era law against sodomy.

 

[AFrazier]

No. 1st century Judea was under Roman rule. Adultery was not a capital crime under Roman Law. 1COR.5:1-5 says that incest was also not a crime under Roman Law.
....... It would have been a capital crime for any 1st century Jew to stone a Jewish adulteress or incestor to death = the stoners would have been crucified by the Roman rulers for committing murder.(cf; JOHN.8)
....... Similarly for any 21st century Jew in USA who stone a Jewish adulteress or incestor to death.

Keep in mind that the Jewish nation, ie Judah and Israel, came under foreign rule from about 800BC onwards, ie by the Empires of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome before all the Jews were expelled from Judea in 70AD. Hence, many Jews became refugees in Europe.

From 800BC onwards, the Jewish Temple rulers had no legal jurisdiction over the Jews, only religious jurisdiction. This was the rule for the conquered.
....... This was similarly how the Imperial British Empire ruled her colonies from about 1500AD onwards, ie British Law reigned over the colonies, including the US colonies during the 17th century. Hence, India today still has the British colonial-era law against sodomy.

Listen, first century BC/AD history is an area of expertise for me. I've been researching, studying, and writing about it for twenty years. Please stop arguing with me on this.

 

[mark kennedy]

Listen, first century BC/AD history is an area of expertise for me. I've been researching, studying, and writing about it for twenty years. Please stop arguing with me on this.

As I recall under Roman law incest was a capitol crime, you could be crucified for that, even a Roman citizen. Is that true or did I get something twisted?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Bigamy and polygamy are essentially the same thing. It's marrying more than one person. The Jewish culture was accepting of men having multiple wives.

So do you think that at any time merely sexual intercourse CONSTITUTED marriage?

Or was there some formality that was always necessitated?
(If they weren't murdered first, or something.)

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

There has been something of a population explosion since then, the logistics doesn't make that practical.

SURELY all the more required !

A proliferation of people, KICK THEM OUT.

That is, if they have been too profligate, kick out some of the WANTON FLESH.

 

[dreadnought]

Lust means viewing or treating a child of God, another human being, as an object I can use for my own pleasure.

That's a pretty good definition.

 

[discipler7]

It was not lawful for a man to commit adultery. It was a capital crime. .......

Listen, first century BC/AD history is an area of expertise for me. I've been researching, studying, and writing about it for twenty years. Please stop arguing with me on this.

.

The punishment varied at different periods of Roman history and depending on the circumstances. Adultery was normally considered a private matter for families to deal with, not a serious criminal offense requiring the attention of the courts, though there were some cases when adultery and sexual transgressions by women had been brought to the aediles for judgment.

Divorce, Adultery and Concubines (Rome Across Europe)
.

Under the lex Julia, a wife found guilty of adultery in a special court – known as the “quaestio” – might sacrifice the return of half her dowry. However, the law did not recognize adultery by husbands. Roman society was very much a man’s world.

The Roman Empire: in the First Century. The Roman Empire. Life In Roman Times. Weddings, Marriages & Divorce | PBS

 

[AFrazier]

So do you think that at any time merely sexual intercourse CONSTITUTED marriage?

Or was there some formality that was always necessitated?
(If they weren't murdered first, or something.)

That's off topic. I never said anything about the marriage process. But to answer your question, there are examples of both; taking a woman and her becoming your wife by the act, and a ceremony proper. Apart from that statement of scriptural fact, I'm not here to define what constitutes marriage.

 

[AFrazier]

As I recall under Roman law incest was a capitol crime, you could be crucified for that, even a Roman citizen. Is that true or did I get something twisted?

Roman history, not necessarily Roman law. You might want to consult T. Mommsen's Römisches Staatsrecht on that.

But I can say that Nero and Caligula were both criticized for their incestuous relationships, Nero with his mother, and Caligula with his sister. But the Senate was hardly going to prosecute either of them, regardless of the law.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

"Lust means viewing or treating a child of God, another human being, as an object I can use for my own pleasure."

That's a pretty good definition.

Looks to me like that makes LUST mostly something found in marriage?

Be interesting to know what sort of THOUGHTS constitute what supposedly is outlawed by Jesus.
I very much doubt he wanted to outlaw THOUGHTS OF LOVE.
Of actual loving.