• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured LUST IS ADULTERY Mt. 5:28

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Douglas Hendrickson, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. AFrazier

    AFrazier Well-Known Member Supporter

    +319
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    If you don't understand the difference by the provided context, then no amount of explaining it further is going to make a difference. It was a turn of phrase. Sorry you don't get it. Maybe English isn't your first language?
     
  2. AFrazier

    AFrazier Well-Known Member Supporter

    +319
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Let's try this ...

    The customer is always right, which doesn't mean they actually are, though they always think they are, despite reality.

    The woman is always right, which doesn't mean they actually are, but we let them be "right" in the interest of domestic peace in the household.

    When I say that someone insists on being right at the expense of being correct, it is a fictitious "right" that stands in defiance of truth, facts, and reality.
     
  3. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    So the Christian thing is to continue to propagate a myth, not based in language or reality? Pretty "funny."

    Like you said, "Wisdom is to have the humility to know you may not always be correct. Wisdom is to listen, to consider, to understand ... and then make a decision, and, as needed, a change in your point of view."
     
  4. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    Even I, even I know someone may think they are correct, when they are very WRONG.
    Which is nothing about there being a difference between "correct" and "right."
     
  5. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    When you say, "People are more interested in being right than in being correct," you are operating in a private language.
    Not English.

    "Turn of phrase," MY EYE.
     
  6. AFrazier

    AFrazier Well-Known Member Supporter

    +319
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Is there some reason that you have to have an answer and a nay-say to everything that is said? It's really annoying.
     
  7. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    So truth annoys.

    It doth for many. One of those "popular" things.

    (When "you can't be right all thee time" is a calamity.)

    "Wisdom is to have the humility to know you may not always be correct. Wisdom is to listen, to consider, to understand ... and then make a decision, and, as needed, a change in your point of view."
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  8. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    The reason being, belief in truth. THAT NO UNTRUTH REMAIN STANDING, to mislead people and keep them in darkness rather than God's eternal light.

    Some believe in truth, some don't.
    It's that simple.
     
  9. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    Seems my original point in the OP about the passion that "in heart" might well be pointed to is reinforced by the idea that Matthew 5:28 is talking about coveting the neighbor's wife, the "looking on" a woman arising to the level of actual action toward actually possessing the person married to another. (Or not married, one is oneself married.)
    In that case the intent or "in heart" element is NOT (only) what that mostly suggests to us - something of the MIND and not the external world. It seems we don't usually see in "in his heart" actual actions.
    Yet coveting requires acting toward possessing the other. That would not prevent it from being very much a matter "of the heart" or passionate understanding.

    It is about committed adultery. Or is "adultery in heart" not really talking "AT ALL" about either real adultery or real hearts? ("Mind" is a real enough "heart"?)

    DOES IT SAY, then "you have committed adultery"?

    A question I notice is WHAT IT DOES NOT SAY:
    It does NOT say that "you have committed adultery," it would not be the same COMMAND OF CHRIST (Mere observation?) if it said that.
    It would be a really radical version that said, "Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery." Either it would be a redefinition of "adultery," OR ______________________?

    If the COMMAND OF CHRIST said whoSOever looketh on a woman to try to possess her has committed adultery ("already" can only amplify the past tense, or it in addition indicates something about the anticipation and fervor involved.)

    PASSION The passion element of "in his heart" is evident here, in that case.
    Otherwise not?

    Can we take if for granted that Christ would be intelligent enough to ... HAVE DROPPED THE "ALREADY" /done already! IF it only meant past tense?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  10. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    IS COVETING EVER ANYTHING SEXUAL?

    It's taking NOT TOUCHING, is it not?
     
  11. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    I would expect some adultery on the way to completion of the coveting intent.
    That is, inclusion of adultery and/or attempts at adultery in the coveting.

    ADULTERY IN HEART INTERSPERSED WITH REAL ADULTERY?

    In the case of coveting the neighbor's wife, there might well be elements of sexuality, don't you think?
     
  12. jovanovic

    jovanovic Well-Known Member

    532
    +174
    Sweden
    Christian
    Single
    but god gave us these sexual desires, i can not control this.
     
  13. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    You might well be able to, if you really wanted to.
    Control the "target" of the sexual desires, at least. Where you focus your attention.

    The dominance of the sex drive
    is one reason why it does not make too much sense to make Matthew 5:28 all about sexual DESIRE.

    (PLEASE capitalize God, unless you really want to appear to not care about the Commandment against "other gods.")
     
  14. jovanovic

    jovanovic Well-Known Member

    532
    +174
    Sweden
    Christian
    Single
    i am not looking at women, but i get sexual thoughts out of nowhere,,,also i have sexual dreams.
     
  15. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    I hope that does not bother you too much.

    It indicates to me that the sex drive is very much a part of our God created nature.
    NOT to be condemned out of hand even if it includes elements of desiring immoral sex, so long as the desires are only a mental thing and do not arise to the level of coveting or adultery. Or engaging in any kind of fornication.
    Mind you if the desires are for the same sex they are not even basically sexual, do not have anything to do with actual sex but are about non-sex and anti-sex. But certainly extremely immoral I would say. (Someone may make me have to try to defend this suggestion about thoughts and I might not be able to?)
     
  16. jovanovic

    jovanovic Well-Known Member

    532
    +174
    Sweden
    Christian
    Single
    it bothers me, i want them gone, i pray to god to take away my sexual desires everyday...so you see i dont want them.

    i dont get thoughts about gay, just about woman.
     
  17. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

    +553
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Would you consider the possibility that a body proper to death and a body ordered to immortal life may experience differently the urge to reproduce?
     
  18. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    Is a "body proper to death" (dying?) and "a body ordered to immortal life" one and the same body? Unclear to me.

    Anyway it's not really about reproduction. I don't think what is bothersome to jovanovic is that he/she might become a parent or wants to become a parent, but to mate, to experience the unity of body (and mind?) with someone attractive of the opposite sex. That is a very natural inclination built into the human being.

    Myself I rejoice in sexual desires in that they awaken me, keep me alive to the world. (I'm 75.)
    When the desire is for total abstinence, to be sexless, to be celibate, that is not always an easy path to follow given it goes against the sexual urges. If it is a path one chooses, then may God help the person who so chooses, may the Holy Spirit guide them into all truth about themselves and God. May God help you jovanovic!

    Since I understand spirit to be rather much rooted in such sexual awareness, I am hesitant to recommend totally denying such. Wondering whether the Holy Spirit could even lead one in that direction? St. Paul said it is "better to marry than to burn" but his own view (not God's so much perhaps?) was that IF ONE DOES NOT FIND IT TOO MUCH OF A BURDEN, it might well be better to never marry. I think the alternative that may work well or at least somewhat is dedication to God, devoting all one's efforts to understand and extend God's will and God's way. I personally married late, was a virgin for a very long time, was very busy being a student. And thought of the two being rather contradictory to each other, that if I became sexually involved there would likely be a family to support and that would definitely interfere with studies.
     
  19. Douglas Hendrickson

    Douglas Hendrickson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +189
    Pentecostal
    Private
    "Sexuality" seemeth to have a couple of usages or meanings.

    One is "sex" meaning the sex act; the other I notice is "sexual" meaning of desires and interactions of the (two) sexes.
    (There is a perverted meaning that uses it for acts of "sexual" perversion, of course.)

    So of the two real meanings there is one that would be involved in any adultery, and there is another that might be involved in coveting, but WOULD NOT BE THE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE OF ADULTERY.

    Besides coveting cattle and coveting someone's house, coveting someone's wife ("LOVING THY NEIGHBOR" if ye prefer) also is not sexual in the sense adultery is sexual.
    NO SEXUAL INTERCOURSE.

    Wanting a neighbor's wife (RATHER THAN MERELY LOVING HER ) is clearly coveting, and actually having the wife that used to be the neighbor's wife would of course be adultery.

    edit: I think there's probably something a little off in identifying coveting with "loving thy neighbor"; loving thy neighbor may be part of it, clearly accompany the coveting, but IS NOT THE COVETING. (Is it merely thought of what lovely eyes she hath, that is what (mostly?) LOVING THE NEIGHBOR is?)

    Clearly "being in love," or being "in love" is one possibility of loving, I think most people probably have an appreciation of what DEEP INMOST THOUGHTS of "I love you" mean, that you are IN LOVE. Not outside of love of neighbor, but very much in it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
Loading...