LUST IS ADULTERY Mt. 5:28

[Mountainmanbob]

67 years old and still working on the 3 second rule. If I'm looking ( staring) at a pretty lady for more than 3 seconds chances are I'm sinning (unless in simple conversation.) I have been fighting this battle for years. The Bible verse weighs heavy on my heart.
M-Bob

 

[discipler7]

The lust that means one has already committed adultery, that is what is to be avoided, the "lust" that is part and parcel of actual adultery, its heart part.
DO NOT ever want to possess someone whom one is not married to with so much "heart" that the lust is indistinguishable from sexual intercourse. Don't let it happen, or the "lust" is adultery (or fornication).

I do not think it is possible for us to avoid having or be without immoral lust, hate, anger, greed, selfishness, jealousy, fear and doubt in our hearts and minds because we have been born with Adam's Original Sin(ROMANS.5:12) = all of us are bound for hell when we die. Not even the non-committing of adultery, murder, stealing, lying/cheating, etc(= the keeping of the Law) can save us.

One possible way to save ourselves is to pluck out our eyes and chop off our limbs, turn the other cheek, love our enemies, walk the extra mile and lend to all who ask, as per the recommendation of Jesus Christ to the unbelieving Pharisees and Jews.(= believers do not have to do such foolish deeds, in order to be saved)

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

No, that's not what it says. You got that totally wrong.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Even atheists read it and get it right.

ITS NOTHING ABOUT YOUR "ATHEISM" - totally off topic to personally attack that way.

What's wrong about it? Your saying it's wrong or "totally wrong" don't make it so. It clearly says "hath committed," does it not?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

67 years old and still working on the 3 second rule. If I'm looking ( staring) at a pretty lady for more than 3 seconds chances are I'm sinning (unless in simple conversation.) I have been fighting this battle for years. The Bible verse weighs heavy on my heart.
M-Bob

Well consider it in another light.

Perhaps it does not mean what you "have always thought" it means?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

I do not think it is possible for us to avoid having or be without immoral lust, hate, anger, greed, selfishness, jealousy, fear and doubt in our hearts and minds because we have been born with Adam's Original Sin(ROMANS.5:12) = all of us are bound for hell when we die. Not even the non-committing of adultery, murder, stealing, lying/cheating, etc(= the keeping of the Law) can save us.

One possible way to save ourselves is to pluck out our eyes and chop off our limbs, turn the other cheek, love our enemies, walk the extra mile and lend to all who ask, as per the recommendation of Jesus Christ to the unbelieving Pharisees and Jews.(= believers do not have to do such foolish deeds)

Are you really wanting to say that about turning the other cheek and walking the extra mile?
I suppose believers do not have to do anything?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Jesus said if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away from you. If your hand causes you to sin , cut it off and throw it away from you. As shocking as this might sound there is a progression here, I see, I reach, I take. He did say if you look with lust in your heart your guilty of adultery but also said if you call your brother a fool it's worse then murder. He's talking about sin at it's root, the sin of your heart is what ruins your soul.

Seems Jesus talked about one being offended by one's own body parts. Is that sin? Perhaps.
But "causes you to sin" does not seem to be exactly what it says. Seems more like your own construction than what my Bible says.

AND he did not exactly say "if you look with lust in your heart your (sic) guilty of adultery," did he?
Seems to me it is pretty certain he did NOT say "if you call your brother a fool it's worse than murder." That's your "free" rewriting of Matt. 5:22, is it not?
If you want to take it to mean these things, please point out how it must mean this and not something else.
I don't see him talking here in Matthew about any "ruined soul."

 

[wonderkins]

Jesus is contrasting his own teaching with that of the pharisees. He's teaching righteousness, not just following a law. The pharisees were teaching every is ok up to intercourse. Jesus was saying just thinking it is adultery.

This is from Matthew 15

18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person.
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.
20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone." (Matthew 15:18-20 ESV)


This thread seems more like an argument to keep going in what is clearly defined as sin by Jesus Christ himself.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Well consider it in another light.

Perhaps it does not mean what you "have always thought" it means?

Yes I have thought about that but still seems like the 3-second rules not a bad idea.
M-Bob

 

[Kaon]

The best interpretation of "...lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart," is that "in his heart" means PASSIONATELY, whole-heartedly. That there has already been adultery (like Jesus says), and that done in a very passionate, heart-full manner.
What is being pointed to is not just some passing fancy, and certainly NOT THE MERE THOUGHT that some woman looks "interesting."

Mt. 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

In contrast to "Thou shalt not commit adultery" Jesus the Christ is saying, if you look upon a woman to lust after her, that is indication you have already sinned.
The "lust" here is the same word that is used for "covet," the possessing of the object desired. ACTUAL ADULTERY. Not merely finding someone looks desirable.

The attraction of a man for a woman (and vice versa) is God-ordained and God created.
Find the other sex pleasing to the eyes and all that, yet NEVER HAVE THE LUST OF ACTUAL ADULTEROUS SEXUAL INTERCOURSE.

The lust that means one has already committed adultery, that is what is to be avoided, the "lust" that is part and parcel of actual adultery, its heart part.
DO NOT ever want to possess someone whom one is not married to with so much "heart" that the lust is indistinguishable from sexual intercourse. Don't let it happen, or the "lust" is adultery (or fornication).

It is because your will will be made manifest through your actions if you truly lust after something. If you lust after another human (or food, or job,) then you will do everything in your power to get it. You certainly don't do everything in your power to remove or neutralize the temptation/want when you lust - and that lust will set root and grow into a physical manifestation because it has become a heart desire.


If you have had sex(ual) thoughts in your mind - thoughts that began as temptation but were followed and entertained further - the only thing left to do is make it physically manifest, which is a trivial step when considering the spirit.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Jesus is contrasting his own teaching with that of the pharisees. He's teaching righteousness, not just following a law. The pharisees were teaching every is ok up to intercourse. Jesus was saying just thinking it is adultery. This is from Matthew 15
18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person.
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.
20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone." (Matthew 15:18-20 ESV)
This thread seems more like an argument to keep going in what is clearly defined as sin by Jesus Christ himself.

The Matthew 15 quote is about "the tongue," what comes out of the mouth (DON'T SPIT!) is it not? Controlling what we say.
There are many bad things in people's hearts, it says to me. And WE SHOULD WATCH THAT IT NEVER COMES OUT, that it is not expressed.

btw, when Scripture says "HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY," doth that sound like something only of the heart (mind)?
Consider that you had only that claim and nothing for context - would you not think there was coitus? I certainly would.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

I like to think of ACTUAL COITUS,

Should I even do that?



"HEAVEN BASED," very good God.

 

[wonderkins]

The Matthew 15 quote is about "the tongue," what comes out of the mouth (DON'T SPIT!) is it not? Controlling what we say.
There are many bad things in people's hearts, it says to me. And WE SHOULD WATCH THAT IT NEVER COMES OUT, that it is not expressed.

btw, when Scripture says "HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY," doth that sound like something only of the heart (mind)?
Consider that you had only that claim and nothing for context - would you not think there was coitus? I certainly would.

Well in chapter 15 Jesus is responding to the pharisees getting upset about the apostles not washing their hands to eat. But he shows that the real problem is unclean hearts. Verse 19 Jesus calls those thoughts evil.

 

[wonderkins]

Jesus doesn't limit that to intercourse. He says those thoughts are evil.

Not to be crude, but by what you've said, it would be ok to grope a woman all you want as long as you don't have intercourse (assuming you're not married to that woman). The Bible doesn't teach that.


If someone rejects Christ...does it only count if they say it out loud? Or do they reject Christ in the heart? I have family who say they are Christians, but it's obvious in their lives that they have not.

 

[mark kennedy]

Seems Jesus talked about one being offended by one's own body parts. Is that sin? Perhaps.
But "causes you to sin" does not seem to be exactly what it says. Seems more like your own construction than what my Bible says.

I was taking some liberties with my paraphrase of the text because I'm familar with the Greek word in the original.

Offend (G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalizō): To put a stumbling-block or impediment in the way, upon which another may trip and fall; to be a stumbling-block; in the N. T. always metaphorically, (R. V. to cause or make to stumble; A. V. to offend (cause to offend));
a. to entice to sin: τινα, Matthew 5:29 (Matthew 5:30); Matthew 18:6,8f; Mark 9:42f, 45, 47; Luke 17:2; 1 Corinthians 8:13 (G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalizō. Thayers Lexicon)​

He's not talking about hurting someone's feelings or offending their sensibilities. All sin is against God, it's some fairly interesting figurative language. To stumble along the path is the general idea. It can and does mean something offensive but I was trying to convey the general idea here.

AND he did not exactly say "if you look with lust in your heart your (sic) guilty of adultery," did he?
Seems to me it is pretty certain he did NOT say "if you call your brother a fool it's worse than murder." That's your "free" rewriting of Matt. 5:22, is it not?

Well you have to understand, he connects the offenses to courts. If you murder someone your subject to the trail courts. If you say Raca to your brother you are subject to the Sanhedrin (G4892 συνέδριον synedrion), a higher court. If you call your brother a fool you subject to hell fire, which is final judgment in the courts of heaven. I was pointing out that there is a priority here and a progression.

If you want to take it to mean these things, please point out how it must mean this and not something else.
I don't see him talking here in Matthew about any "ruined soul."

In the Sermon on the Mount he is talking about the Law. He tells them not one jot or tittle (we might say iota) will be dropped from the Law until all is fulfilled. Under the Law there is one obligation but in the kingdom of God you have a deeper obligation. Sin, like righteousness proceeds from the heart.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Well in chapter 15 Jesus is responding to the pharisees getting upset about the apostles not washing their hands to eat. But he shows that the real problem is unclean hearts. Verse 19 Jesus calls those thoughts evil.

FIRST, in a couple of verses (17&18) it is MADE CLEAR that what is being talked about , AND THAT WHAT IS BEING TALKED ABOUT
is the mouth.

MAYBE THE HEART is not what is the problem after all
cause after all AFTER ALL after all it is the heart.
(How does a heart become a thought?)

"DON'T MISS ANYTHING"
(Art yE single gal?)

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

He's not talking about hurting someone's feelings or offending their sensibilities. All sin is against God, it's some fairly interesting figurative language. To stumble along the path is the general idea. It can and does mean something offensive but I was trying to convey the general idea here.

So the "thee" in verse 29 is supposed to be "Thee," (or THEE or thee or THEE) ?
Or, "OFFEND THEE" only means "offend someone else like God?

Thee doesn't mean me?
It means somebody else?



READ LETTERS
oDD even.

 

[mark kennedy]

So the "thee" in verse 29 is supposed to be "Thee," (or THEE or thee or THEE) ?
Or, "OFFEND THEE" only means "offend someone else like God?

Thee doesn't mean me?
It means somebody else?



READ LETTERS
oDD even.

I'm not entirely sure of your point is here or what you mean by 'thee'. Let's take another look at the verse, I assume you mean Matt. 5:29:

If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
​

If your right hand offends (causes you to stumble, fall into sin), cut it off. I was pointing out a progression here, you see, you reach, you take. This is very common in the Hebrew Scriptures:

Blessed is the one
who does not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take
or sit in the company of mockers (Psalm 1:1)
​

What is going on there? You walking along the road, you are standing in the door, your sitting down with them. I'm not sure what is confusing about this but I think my exposition is pretty straight forward, just pointing out a literary feature. Not everything is going to translate well, but if you take a look at the original language it can offer some insights.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

I'm not entirely sure of your point is here or what you mean by 'thee'. Let's take another look at the verse, I assume you mean Matt. 5:29:

If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
​

If your right hand offends (causes you to stumble, fall into sin), cut it off. I was pointing out a progression here, you see, you reach, you take. This is very common in the Hebrew Scriptures:

Blessed is the one
who does not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take
or sit in the company of mockers (Psalm 1:1)
​

What is going on there? You walking along the road, you are standing in the door, your sitting down with them. I'm not sure what is confusing about this but I think my exposition is pretty straight forward, just pointing out a literary feature. Not everything is going to translate well, but if you take a look at the original language it can offer some insights.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Throwing stuff gratuitously into Scripture?

Where is the "you see you reach you take"? From? Somebody's head?


"What is going on here?" INDEED.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Yes, that I get.

OK, I eventually gathered you two were talking about something else.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Sorry. He did. (and does).
He holds Ekklesia to a higher standard, remember?
JESUS is so much HIGHER than MOSES !
Just committing adultery IN THE HEART, is sin, guily, liable to the penalty for sin - death.

I figured that would be hard to follow.

Was it adultery in Moses' time?