Lunar eclipse from 6th-9th hour, after a 3pm crucifixion, would be 9-12midnight

Goinheix · Jun 17, 2011

If we are talking of a lnar eclips we have to keep on mind that those eclipses only hapens in Full Moon. In the Hebrew Calendar the Full Moon is always the 15th of the month. Full Moon is the 15th of every hebrew month of every year of every centry. A full moon will never hapens on a 20th, and never did.

Lulav · Jun 17, 2011

granpa said:
Wow. I cant believe this never occurred to me before.

john 19:14 says Pilate sat in the place called the pavement at the 6th hour. Thats noon.

Then Jesus was led away to be crucified.
According to Mark Jesus was crucified the 3rd hour.
3 hours after he saw pilate would be 3pm.
(He cant have been crucified before he was led away)

There was darkness from the 6th to the 9th hour.
The 6th hour that he was on the cross would be 9pm.

The 9th hour that he was on the cross would be 12midnight.
(Midnight is the hour the angel of death passed throughout Epypt).

Apr 35 of the year 31 had a partial lunar eclipse lasting from 20:00 to 00:30. apr 25 of 31 AD was a Wed and its julian day #1732495
there was also a total eclipse on june 14 of 29 but that would be too late in the year for passover.
(unless they had a very long winter). June 14 of 29 AD was a tue and its julian day #1731815
Javascript Lunar Eclipse Explorer for ASIA
0031 April 25 Partial Lunar Eclipse - Interactive Google Map - Xavier Jubier
0029 June 14 Total Lunar Eclipse - Interactive Google Map - Xavier Jubier
Julian Day and Date Time Calculator

this makes sense because he was in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights and he arose on sunday morning at dawn. 3 days after thur morning would be sunday morning.

Don't know if anyone else has posted this, but you can't have a solar eclipse during a full moon, only on the new moon.

Passover is at the Spring full moon.

Steve Petersen · Jun 17, 2011

Lulav said:
Don't know if anyone else has posted this, but you can't have a solar eclipse during a full moon, only on the new moon.

Passover is at the Spring full moon.

Good point. So the darkness on the crucifixion day could not have been a SOLAR eclipse. If Jesus died at midnight as has been proposed, one would expect it to be dark. What would have been unusual about that kind of darkness? Nothing. Why would normal darkness be worthy of mention in the Passion story?

A LUNAR eclipse would be possible, but that has to be sometime near sundown. From Wikipedia, Lunar Eclipse:

A selenelion or selenehelion occurs when both the Sun and the eclipsed Moon can be observed at the same time. This can only happen just before sunset or just after sunrise, and both bodies will appear just above the horizon at nearly opposite points in the sky. This arrangement has led to the phenomenon being referred to as a horizontal eclipse. It happens during every lunar eclipse at all those places on the Earth where it is sunrise or sunset at the time.

Goinheix · Jun 17, 2011

Lulav said:
Don't know if anyone else has posted this, but you can't have a solar eclipse during a full moon, only on the new moon.

Passover is at the Spring full moon.

He is talking of a Lnar eclips. But he is saying that it happens in 2oth Nissan not in 15th. He base the 20th on the Natal Chart of Jesus the day of his birth. He say that the positions of the planrts in the Zodiac constelations (the day of Jesus Birth) showed that he will die in the 20th nissan. He is also based on some suposed letter from Pilates to Rome. But he is ignoring all we can read on the Gospels.

Goinheix · Jun 17, 2011

Steve Petersen said:
A LUNAR eclipse would be possible, but that has to be sometime near sundown. From Wikipedia, Lunar Eclipse:

You dont understand this brother as I did not understood for a good while. He is talking of a lunar eclipse wich is not a selenelion.

The big dificulty that he is trying to salve is the fact that Jesus was before Pilates by noon (6th hour) and was crucified by mid mornig (3rd hour). He is trying to say that Jesus was crucified by 3pm (3rd hour) in order to answer that dificlty on the Gospels.

Steve Petersen · Jun 17, 2011

Goinheix said:
You dont understand this brother as I did not understood for a good while. He is talking of a lunar eclipse wich is not a selenelion.

What range of times could that happen, in reference to sundown?

The big dificulty that he is trying to salve is the fact that Jesus was before Pilates by noon (6th hour) and was crucified by mid mornig (3rd hour). He is trying to say that Jesus was crucified by 3pm (3rd hour) in order to answer that dificlty on the Gospels.

That part I am following; just don't agree with that chronology.

One can't deny that some of the gospel accounts differ as to the hours, but I think it is pretty clear that they wanted him in the tomb before the onset of the Holiday Sabbath or Weekly Sabbath, whatever one believes. BOTH would commence at about sundown.

Goinheix · Jun 17, 2011

Steve Petersen said:
What range of times could that happen, in reference to sundown?

What he is saying is that it was a lunar eclipse commencing righ at sundown and lasting 3 hours. He claim that those 3 hors of lunar eclipse after sundown were the 3 hours darkness recorded in the Gospels.

Is him saying that, not me.

Goinheix · Jun 17, 2011

Steve Petersen said:
One can't deny that some of the gospel accounts differ as to the hours, but I think it is pretty clear that they wanted him in the tomb before the onset of the Holiday Sabbath or Weekly Sabbath, whatever one believes. BOTH would commence at about sundown.

We can not believe for one second that the Gospels are contradicting each other. We are talking about the key event of all the Bible, the fact that is the core of christian doctrine. if we can not trust the Gospels when they account the dead and resrrection of Christ; then we are in troubles, deep problems.

John say that Jesus was before Pilates one day by noon. The synoptics say that Jesus was crucified next day by 9am. No contradictions, no trouble, no problems.

Steve Petersen · Jun 17, 2011

Goinheix said:
What he is saying is that it was a lunar eclipse commencing righ at sundown and lasting 3 hours. He claim that those 3 hors of lunar eclipse after sundown were the 3 hours darkness recorded in the Gospels.

Is him saying that, not me.

Understood.

There were reportedly other sources mentioning darkness at the crucifixion. Take it for what it is worth.

Goinheix · Jun 17, 2011

Steve Petersen said:
Understood.

There were reportedly other sources mentioning darkness at the crucifixion. Take it for what it is worth.

The Gospel is enough. And if any of thouse other sourses say any diferent from the gospels, i believe the gospels.

PaladinValer · Jun 18, 2011

No, he was crucified on a Friday. That is why Holy Friday is called Good Friday during Holy Week.

You people need to remember that Thursday was over with. He was crucified on the 3rd hour, which corresponds to 9am, which is 2 hours past Prime, which is the 1st hour of the next day. The time system being used was that of the ROMANS, not the Jews.

Goinheix · Jun 18, 2011

PaladinValer said:
No, he was crucified on a Friday. That is why Holy Friday is called Good Friday during Holy Week.

You people need to remember that Thursday was over with. He was crucified on the 3rd hour, which corresponds to 9am, which is 2 hours past Prime, which is the 1st hour of the next day. The time system being used was that of the ROMANS, not the Jews.

Holy Friday was stablished in the IV century because the grrek word for preparation (the day before sabbath) is the same as friday (the day before sabbath). Jesus was crucified on a preparaton day not in a friday.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7569735/

granpa · Jun 18, 2011

Wednesday

Code:

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn
 9 am
12 pm noon, stands before Pilate
 3 pm crucified (3 hours after seeing pilate)
 6 pm sunset 
 9 pm darkness (lunar eclipse) starts (6 hours after crucifixion)

Thursday

Code:

12 am midnight, darkness (lunar eclipse) ends, Jesus dies (9 hours after crucifixion)
 3 am
 6 am dawn, Jesus put in tomb (sabbath about to dawn)
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Friday

Code:

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Saturday

Code:

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Sunday

Code:

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn, resurrection, tomb found empty
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Goinheix · Jun 18, 2011

How many times we have to tell you that Jesus died before sunset. That is in the Gosples, very clear, and you continue to ignore the word of God.

Jesus was before Pilates by noon one day and was crucified next day by 9am.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7569681/

PaladinValer · Jun 18, 2011

Goinheix said:
Holy Friday was stablished in the IV century because the grrek word for preparation (the day before sabbath) is the same as friday (the day before sabbath). Jesus was crucified on a preparaton day not in a friday.

And AGAIN, Friday morning and afternoon ARE NOT SATURDAY ACCORDING TO THE JEWS BUT IN FACT IS PART OF THAT DAY OF PREPARATION.

Therefore, the nineth hour would still be 3pm on Friday, and the sun had not yet set, SO IT IS STILL FRIDAY EVEN FOR THE JEWS!

Learn how ancient peoples measured time.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7569735/[/quote]

granpa said:

Wednesday

Code:

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn
 9 am
12 pm noon, stands before Pilate
 3 pm crucified (3 hours after seeing pilate)
 6 pm sunset 
 9 pm darkness (lunar eclipse) starts (6 hours after crucifixion)

Thursday

Code:

12 am midnight, darkness (lunar eclipse) ends, Jesus dies (9 hours after crucifixion)
 3 am
 6 am dawn, Jesus put in tomb (sabbath about to dawn)
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Friday

Code:

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Saturday

Code:

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Sunday

Code:

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn, resurrection, tomb found empty
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Granpa, you don't get it either. You need to learn how the Romans and the Jews measured time. Your time table is wrong because of that very fact.

Jesus died on Friday BEFORE SUNSET, which means according to the Hebrew measurement of time, He was dead before their concept of Saturday. That's one day. The Myrrhbearers returned home quickly because at sundown, Saturday began. Sundown on Saturday, Jesus is still dead. That's one day. That means after sunset on Saturday, it is the third day. That's Sunday.

Or, if you prefer:

Jesus was crucified on the third hour according to the Roman measurement of time. This hour is called Terce; the first hour is called Prime. He hung on the cross for six hours, which means He died on the nineth hour, which is called None. This is largely almost the same system, except that the day begins roughly 6am. So, He died on Friday. Saturday Prime comes up. That's one more day. Then Sunday comes around. He's alive after sunrise, which would happen just after Prime. That's three days.

Either way, be it the religious Jewish system of time that Jesus and the Apostles used, or the secular Roman system that everyday society used, Jesus died on Friday and was raised from the dead on Sunday. And in both systems, due to the time in which He died and was raised, it counts as three days.

This is fact.

granpa · Jun 18, 2011

how many times are you people going to keep asking the same questions then ignore everything I say?

I have already answered this many times.
please read the op if you still dont get what I am saying.

(and assuming that anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant is extremely closed minded)

PaladinValer · Jun 18, 2011

granpa said:
how many times are you people going to keep asking the same questions then ignore everything I say?

I have already answered this many times.
please read the op if you still dont get what I am saying.

(and assuming that anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant is extremely closed minded)

But your OP is flawed from the very beginning. Your idea of hours is wrong: the 3rd hour is a Roman concept, so you have to interpret it based on Roman understanding of time. Prime began roughly 6am, so the 3rd (Terce) hour has to be 9am. That means Sext is 12noon and None is 3pm.

The whole Western liturgical hours are based on this: Lauds/Prime at dawn (6am). Terce at 9am, Sext at 12noon, None at 3pm. Vespers usually 6pm, which is 12 hours after the sun rises (time the sun sets). Compline is upon retiring to bed. Matins/Nocturns is during the night, often midnight.

The Hebrews didn't care about when the sun rose; they cared about when it SET. If the 3rd hour is as if you want to calculate it (using the religious Jewish method), then Christ died 3am. No one would have been awake; they'd all be in bed.

granpa · Jun 18, 2011

"3rd (Terce) hour has to be 9am"

isnt that exactly what I wrote in the op?

PaladinValer · Jun 18, 2011

No. Your OP has Terce as 9pm.

Furthermore, there is no two 12-hour systems. The Roman day had no two Primes; just one. Likewise, no two Terces, just one. Time was calculated by sunup.

granpa · Jun 18, 2011

ok. I've added roman time to the op.

both hebrew and roman time systems agree that 6th hour is noon.

thats the key piece of information here.

Lunar eclipse from 6th-9th hour, after a 3pm crucifixion, would be 9-12midnight

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