Luke 21:31 "nigh is the Kingdom of God"

[corinth77777]

The argument over who is really Israel, is it the Church or is it the Jews who remain under the old covenant, misses the point. Both are Israel.

What Does it mean not all Israel Is israel?


"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect.

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" Romans 9:6

 

[A71]

What Does it mean not all Israel Is israel?

Israel were the Hebrews, who God wanted to be the People of Faith, like Abraham.
Some Israelites were faithful to God, and when Christ came, they formed the Church, which was the true Israel God had always wanted and envisaged.
Some of the Israelites however remained mired in the worship of false Gods, and false teachings, and they rejected Jesus. These 'Israelites' were Israelites by flesh, but not by belief.
The Church was the true Israel, and Paul explains in Ephesians how all in the whole world are now Israel.

Those flesh Israelites who rejected Christ and continue to this day to reject him, through blindness, nonetheless remain Israel as well, not in the sense of being the Church, but in the sense that God has used them for a special purpose, and they are not forgotten, and eventually many of them will be
Divested of their blindness and be brought into the Church.

 

[corinth77777]

Israel were the Hebrews, who God wanted to be the People of Faith, like Abraham.
Some Israelites were faithful to God, and when Christ came, they formed the Church, which was the true Israel God had always wanted and envisaged.
Some of the Israelites however remained mired in the worship of false Gods, and false teachings, and they rejected Jesus. These 'Israelites' were Israelites by flesh, but not by belief.
The Church was the true Israel, and Paul explains in Ephesians how all in the whole world are now Israel.

Those flesh Israelites who rejected Christ and continue to this day to reject him, through blindness, nonetheless remain Israel as well, not in the sense of being the Church, but in the sense that God has used them for a special purpose, and they are not forgotten, and eventually many of them will be
Divested of their blindness and be brought into the Church.

If not all Israel Is israel....then not all Israel Is Israel. Are you saying then Israel will be Israel...even though it states not all Israel Is Israel?

 

[A71]

Lol.
Paul is allowing two definitions of Israel to co-exist.

Say you support Liverpool football club. Say the No9 was Ian Rush for many years. Eventually he is transferred to a lesser team for a couple of seasons, and then retires. The new No9 comes along and he is Sturridge say. So the Liverpool No 9 is really Sturridge, but one might still refer to "the great Liverpool No 9" Ian Rush.

Regarding Israel, what you really have, when you boil it down, is Israel under the new covenant, as per Jeremiah 33, but also Israel trapped, imprisoned in the Old Covenant, as per Galatians 3. We could call them "Israel free", and "Israel trapped". Both are Israel still, because Paul explains in Romans that Israel trapped has not been discarded.

 

[A71]

...duplicate

 

[corinth77777]

Lol.
Paul is allowing two definitions of Israel to co-exist.

Say you support Liverpool football club. Say the No9 was Ian Rush for many years. Eventually he is transferred to a lesser team for a couple of seasons, and then retires. The new No9 comes along and he is Sturridge say. So the Liverpool No 9 is really Sturridge, but one might still refer to "the great Liverpool No 9" Ian Rush.

Regarding Israel, what you really have, when you boil it down, is Israel under the new covenant, as per Jeremiah 33, but also Israel trapped, imprisoned in the Old Covenant, as per Galatians 3. We could call them "Israel free", and "Israel trapped". Both are Israel still, because Paul explains in Romans that Israel trapped has not been discarded.

So then any One who turns by faith in Jesus?
Will they arise from physical death...to be saved?

 

[corinth77777]

So then any One who turns by faith in Jesus?
Will they arise from physical death...to be saved?

It really sounds like our walk......in a sense

 

[corinth77777]

So then any One who turns by faith in Jesus?
Will they arise from physical death...to be saved?

Problem is who would Israel be today?

 

[corinth77777]

It really sounds like our walk......in a sense

Because Israel Is Israel even though as a person or as a body all has not been brought to completion. Another words Grace has the ability to save anyone in their walk that turns to Christ in their physical walk. Physically we are brought out of a spiritual he'll [death] to a Life with God. A So my assumptions are that God wants to save the whole body....Yet I haven't a clue of what I just wrote.....

 

[A71]

Yes. God wants all creation to worship him.
All mankind.

The mystery is that all mankind is Israel. Ephesians 3

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[corinth77777]

Yes. God wants all creation to worship him.
All mankind.

The mystery is that all mankind is Israel. Ephesians 3

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

"All" so what do you believe about the destiny of all men kind after physical death? Their fate?

 

[A71]

"All" so what do you believe about the destiny of all men kind after physical death? Their fate?

They face Jesus. Jesus judges them. Those who Jesus recognizes go to eternal life. Those who he does not recognize...they will be judged.

 

[Petros2015]

Problem is who would Israel be today?

We are.

 

[Petros2015]

Jesus said the Kingdom is "in your midst", not afar off, not coming by and by.

The apostles and disciples and most people who were expecting a Messiah
seem to have been expecting a TODAY DELIVERER from the oppression they were under - a Kingdom on or of this world, with Military type leadership and deliverance from the enemies.....

Another translation has this as 'within you' rather than 'in your midst'.

This leads me to believe that the kingdom of God is a personal, spiritual one.

 

[corinth77777]

They face Jesus. Jesus judges them. Those who Jesus recognizes go to eternal life. Those who he does not recognize...they will be judged.

Ok...maybe I'm asking the questions wrong...
My Initial question....about there was always a kingdom....Even before The jews......?
Yes or No
Second, how does God save Israel when they have already physically died not in faith?

3rd, who would, if there is, be physical Israel today?

So yes I'm confused

 

[corinth77777]

Maybe someone can help me understand this:

Romans 11

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they areenemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

ISN'T Jesus the deliverer...what is Sion?
How will He do it? Does it say in other scriptures?

 

[A71]

Ok...maybe I'm asking the questions wrong...
My Initial question....about there was always a kingdom....Even before The jews......?
Yes or No
Second, how does God save Israel when they have already physically died not in faith?

3rd, who would, if there is, be physical Israel today?

So yes I'm confused

No. The Kingdom began when Christ was enthroned after his ascension.

Those who die under the Law are judged by the Law. (See Romans 2)

Physical Israel is anyone who follows judaism and repudiates Jesus. They remain chained to the Law. Historically they were Jews obviously, but if others have joined in, they have simply placed themselves under judaism, and the curse of being under the law. (God is not partial).

 

[A71]

Maybe someone can help me understand this:

Romans 11

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they areenemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

ISN'T Jesus the deliverer...what is Sion?
How will He do it? Does it say in other scriptures?

Zion is Jerusalem
The Church is the deliverer out of Zion.

Acts 1: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

The Church must constantly witness to the Jews

 

[A71]

The Jews will understand the scriptures. God has it in hand

 

[DavidPT]

We are.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?


The kingdom has been restored to us then, which seems to imply we were initially in possession of it, lost that possession eventually, thus needing it restored to us? Somehow I don't see that fitting the church though.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Per this verse it wouldn't be the nation bringing forth the fruits thereof, in need of restoring again the kingdom to, it would be the ones it is taken from in need of restoring again the kingdom to. IMO anyway.