Luke 21:24 shows it is future

[Bible2]

NILLOC posted in message #52:

The tribulation was coming back then Rev. 1:1-3.
There may be a tribulation coming, but if there is
one, it’s no foretold in Scripture.

Nothing in Revelation 1:1-3 requires that the
tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18 has been
fulfilled, for Revelation 1:1-3 can be understood in
light of 2 Peter 3:8-9.

NILLOC posted in message #52:

Christians did die in the tribulation; they were
horribly persecuted by the Jews and Nero. I’m not an
Orthodox (Partial) Preterist because I’m scared of
the tribulation; I’m an Orthodox Preterist because I
believe it is closest to what the Scriptures teach.

Neither the Jews nor Nero ever fulfilled the killing
of Christians as shown as part of Revelation chapters
13-14 and in verse 20:4.

Preterists could want to believe that preterism is
closest to what the scriptures teach, because they
are afraid of going through Revelation chapters
13-14 and verse 20:4 (not to mention all the rest
of the horrors of Revelation chapters 6-18), whether
or not they will admit that fear to anyone (including
themselves).

NILLOC posted in message #52:

Posted by Bible2:

... partial preterists ... leave themselves woefully
unprepared to face the coming tribulation with patience
and faith, unto the end ...

No, instead, we try to do the Lord’s work and believe
that the world can become a better place, rather than
as the futurists do, say that there’s no point in
trying to make the world a better place since it’s
gonna just get screwed up by the Antichrist soon.

It's true that there's no point in trying to make the
whole world a better place since it really is going
to be ruined by the Antichrist soon (Revelation
13:4-18). So we should focus our energies in saving
as many individuals as possible instead, before the
Antichrist comes, and preparing the saved to face the
coming tribulation with patience and faith, unto the
end (Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13).

Jesus will be able to make the whole world a better
place at His second coming, when He will destroy the
Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:8, Revelation 19:20)
and set up His millennial kingdom on the earth
(Micah 4:3-4).

NILLOC posted in message #52:

We don’t ignore Revelation, we just understand that
prophetic literature is difficult to interpret, and
that we cannot always find it’s exact fulfillment. We
also understand that the book uses extreme that
should not be taken literally.

Preterists do ignore Revelation chapters 6-22,
because they can't ever show how it was fulfilled in
70 AD, or why almost all of it can't be literally
fulfilled in the future.

NILLOC posted in message #52:

The first three chapters of Revelation are clearly
not symbolic, but are very straight forward when
Jesus is talking to the seven churches (which
futurists make into ‘church ages&#8217. The apocalyptic
imagery does not really start until chapter 4.

The first three chapters of Revelation clearly
contain some symbolism (e.g. Revelation 1:20),
but the seven churches of the first three chapters
of Revelation aren't "church ages", but seven first-
century local church congregations in the Roman
province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:4,11b).

After the first three chapters of Revelation are over,
John is taken up into heaven in Revelation 4:1 to be
shown the future events of Revelation chapters 6-22,
which events have never been fulfilled, and almost
all of which will be fulfilled literally.

NILLOC posted in message #52:

The two witnesses are called lamb stands and are
spoken of in the present tense (Rev. 11:4), just
like the seven churches which are in Asia ((Rev. 1:4)
meaning that they cannot be ‘church ages’ like
futurists say)) and are called lambstands (Rev. 1:20).
It’s not a coincidence.

The two witnesses could be spoken of in the present
tense as the two candlesticks standing before the God
of the earth (Revelation 11:4) because they are Moses
and Elijah, who could presently stand before Jesus in
heaven just as they stood before Jesus on earth at the
transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The seven first-century local church congregations
which were in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation
1:4,11b) did not fulfill the two-witness events of
Revelation 11:3-13, which events have never been
fulfilled.

NILLOC posted in message #52:

... Revelation was written to the seven churches and
describing a tribulation that was already going on
(Rev. 2:9-10). Jesus promises the Church at
Philadelphia that He is coming quickly (Rev. 3:11)
and to hold on to their faith. Just image what the
first century Christians would think reading that
back then. If the futurists are right, Jesus was
being deceptive.

Only the seven individual letters of Revelation
chapters 2-3 were specifically applicable to the
seven individual first-century local church
congregations which were in the Roman province of
"Asia" (Revelation 1:4,11b), so that while Revelation
2:10 is referring to a first-century persecution,
nothing requires that it's referring to the
tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18, which did
not happen in the first century.

Jesus was in no way being deceptive in Revelation
3:11, for it should be understood in the clear light
of 2 Peter 3:8-9.

 

[Bible2]

NILLOC posted in message #52:

Revelation was signified (symbolized) it to John
(Rev. 1:1). The Greek word used for signified is
eshmanen, which means: "a mark" according to Strong’s
notes. So yes Revelation is full of symbols.

Nothing about the Greek word translated as
"signified" in Revelation 1:1 requires that almost
all of Revelation isn't literal. Even Strong's
says that it simply means "to indicate".

NILLOC posted in message #52:

All of Matthew 23 is about the corrupt Pharisees,
you really think Jesus just wanders off into some
tribulation two thousand years away? It makes no
sense.

Nothing requires that Matthew 23:35-36 is only
about the corrupt Pharisees of Jesus' time, or
that Matthew 23:39 can't be referring to the same
as-yet-unfulfilled second coming as Matthew 24:30.

NILLOC posted in message #52:

Bible2 posted:

Jesus' contemporaries didn't slay Zacharias ("whom
YE slew" -- Matthew 23:35b, cf. Luke 11:51,
2 Chronicles 24:20-21) ...

The Zechariah that Jesus mentions here cannot be the
one killed in Chronicles (though many think that it
is). They can’t be the same, because the Zechariah in
Chronicles father’s name is Jehoiada, but the
Zechariah Jesus speaks of had a father named
Berechiah. The only Zechariah son of Berechiah
mentioned in Scripture is the prophet Zechariah who
wrote the Book of Zechariah, but there is no proof
that he was murdered between the Temple and the
altar. The Zechariah that is being spoken of here is
probably John the Baptists father, who was a priest
(which would explain why he would have been murdered
between the Temple and the altar). It would also
explain why the Pharisees would have killed him,
since he would have been close to Jesus. So when
Jesus says: "whom ye slew" he meant his contemporaries.

There's no proof that Berechiah (Matthew 23:35)
couldn't have been another name for Jehoiada
(2 Chronicles 24:20-21). And is there proof that
Jesus' contemporaries slew a Zechariah son of
Berechiah between the temple and the altar (Matthew
23:35), and that Jesus wasn't referring in Matthew
23:36 to the figurative generation of the wicked of
all times? (Proverbs 30:11-14).

NILLOC posted in message #52:

The ‘rapture’ and Second Coming are not foretold in
the Olivet Discourse.

The second coming of Christ and gathering together
(rapture) of the Church are foretold in Matthew
24:30-31 and Mark 13:26-27, which are the same second
coming of Christ and gathering together (rapture) of
the Church foretold in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

NILLOC posted in message #52:

Bible2 posted:

... an endtime fulfillment of the "commandment to
restore" in Daniel 9:25 ...

This is obviously talking about the restoration after
the Babylonian Exile, even the Dispensationalists
agree.

Do either preterists or dispensationalists have proof
that the November, 1947 U.N. Resolution to restore the
state of Israel wasn't an endtime fulfillment of the
"commandment to restore" in Daniel 9:25?

NILLOC posted in message #52:

The Second Coming is not talked about in the 70
weeks; this is prophesying about the first coming of
Christ.

What is the proof that Daniel 9:25 and 9:24 won't have
an endtime fulfillment at the second coming, or that
Daniel 9:26 and 9:27 won't have an endtime fulfillment
during the tribulation?

NILLOC posted in message #52:

Bible2 posted:

There's no proof that Nero’s persecution fulfilled
Matthew 24:9, much less Matthew 24:7, much less
Revelation 13:4-18.

Sure there is. Nero was the leader of the nations
(the Roman Empire) who persecuted the Christians
(which is how the nations hated the disciples).
Verse 9 [should be verse 7?] is describing the civil
wars that occurred in the sixties A.D. Rev. 13 is
may be difficult, so maybe I’ll get to it another time.

No proof was given that Nero’s persecution was the
fulfillment of Matthew 24:9, or that any civil wars
that occurred in the sixties AD were the fulfillment
of Matthew 24:7, or that Matthew 24:9 and Matthew 24:7
won't be fulfilled in the future when other verses
such as Matthew 24:15 and Matthew 24:29-31 are
fulfilled.

Revelation 13:4-18 is supremely difficult for
preterists. They never get to it, just as they never
get to the rest of Revelation chapters 6-22, for
those chapters have no historical fulfillment.

 

[Bible2]

NILLOC posted in message #53:

The writer of Hebrews speaks of the OC still not
having disappeared in the second part of the verse
[Hebrews 8:13]; he speaks of the OC ready to disapper
in his time. And the NC was still over six hundred
years away when Jeremiah was written, so it cannot
be ‘soon’ to disappear like Hebrews says.

In Hebrews 8:13b, the writer of Hebrews wasn't
speaking of the Old Covenant as ready to disappear
in his own time, but at the time that Jeremiah 31:31
was spoken. The coming of the New Covenant was "near"
(eggus) to the time that Jeremiah 31:31 was spoken in
light of 2 Peter 3:8-9.

The writer of Hebrews speaks of the Old Covenant
as already disannulled in Hebrews 7:18-19 and 10:18
(cf. Matthew 26:28), just as Paul speaks of the Old
Covenant as already abolished on the cross in
Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15.

NILLOC posted in message #53:

Yes the Cross made the OC obsolete, but the outward
elements had not yet passed away, until the Temple
was destroyed

Matthew 27:50-51 showed that the cross had rendered
even the outward, physical, temple-elements of the
Old Covenant obsolete as far as God was concerned
(cf. Hebrews 10:19-21), just as Hebrews 10:18, in
light of Matthew 26:28, showed the same thing.

NILLOC posted in message #53:

Posted by Bible2:

Partial preterists make fun of full preterists for
trying to make 70 AD more important than the cross ...

They do.

Posted by Bible2:

... when partial preterists try to do the very same
thing.

No we don’t. We don’t say the Second Coming happened
then, we don’t say that the Resurrection was then, we
don’t say death was destroyed then, we don’t say that
God became all in all then, we don’t say that Christ
put all of His enemies under His feet then, we don’t
say that we reached the unity of the faith then, we
don’t say that our bodies were redeemed then, we
don’t say that the righteous inherited the earth
then, and we don’t say that Satan was thrown into
the lake of fire then. Full preterists say that all
of those things happened then, so they do make the
most important event in history.

Partial preterists do try to do the very same thing
as full preterists in the context of trying to make
70 AD as the time when the Old Covenant ended instead
of on the cross.

And partial preterists do try to do the very same
thing as full preterists insofar as trying to make
70 AD as the time when the second coming of Matthew
24, 2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 19 happened.

NILLOC posted in message #53:

Posted by Bible2:

... Daniel 11:31,36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 require
it ...

Daniel is talking about Antiochus Epiphanies and
2 Thessalonians 2 was fulfilled in A.D. 70.

Antiochus Epiphanes didn't fulfill Daniel 11:31,36
(cf. Matthew 24:15), and 2 Thessalonians 2 wasn't
fulfilled in 70 AD.

---

NILLOC posted in message #54:

[Re: The Orthodox Jews rebuilding the temple]

There are more problems than just the Dome of the
Rock. They need to spread the ashes of a red heifer
where the Temple will be, but the breeders have not
been able to get the heifer the right color and just
three white hairs would disqualify the heifer from
being used. They also need to find a Levite boy in
order to perform a ceremony where the Temple will be.
But they have never been able to find a Levite
because all of the lineage records are destroyed and
even if they did find a Levite, there are certain
things that would disqualify him i.e. if he is
ceremonially unclean.

A red heifer without three white hairs could be
obtained before the Orthodox Jews rebuild the temple.
Or, they could simply decide to reject that non-
scriptural, man-invented three-hair requirement and
just take any red heifer which fulfills Numbers 19:2,
just as they could reject any other insurmountable
merely man-made requirements for rebuilding the
temple. And they could decide, for example, that
Orthodox Jews named "Cohen" must be descended from
the Aaronic priesthood.

And if they are led by some false Orthodox Jewish
"Messiah", he could pronounce all sorts of
"dispensations from God" allowing this or that
exception, so that (as he could say) "we might do
God's will and commence the greater, ultimate good
of rebuilding His Temple". And genealogies could
be (as he could claim) "miraculously revealed" to
the Messiah so that he might appoint "by the hand
of God" an Aaronic high priest and Levites to serve
in the temple.

NILLOC posted in message #54:

Read how ‘Day of the Lord’ is used in the OT. It’s
not referring to the Millennium, it’s a way of
talking about a judgment of God on a nation. There
are many days of the Lord talked about in the OT.

The future day of the Lord will begin at the second
coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8), with its judgment
(Revelation 19:11-21), and then extend all the way
through the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20:4-6,
cf. 2 Peter 3:8), with its judgment (e.g. Zechariah
14:17-19, Revelation 2:26-29), and then include the
subsequent events after the millennium, with their
judgments (Revelation 20:7-15).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Partial preterists do try to do the very same thing
as full preterists in the context of trying to make
70 AD as the time when the Old Covenant ended instead
of on the cross.

And partial preterists do try to do the very same
thing as full preterists insofar as trying to make
70 AD as the time when the second coming of Matthew
24, 2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 19 happened.

Greetings. Do you view the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as the same event?
There appears to be some confusion among the Catholics and Partial preterist and Futurists about this, but then I blame poor Bible Translations. Thanks.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7276015
Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?

For example this form of the greek word for "resurrection" is used only in 2 verses. Matt 12 and 1 Thess 4

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matt 12:41 "Men Ninevites shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this, and they shall be condemning her that they reform into the proclamation of Jonah and Lo! more of Jonah here".

1 Thessalonians 4:16 That Himself, the Lord, in a shout-of-command, in voice of chief-messenger, and in trump of God, shall be descending from heaven, and the dead-ones in Christ shall be Ressurecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) First,

 

[Bible2]

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #64:

Greetings.

Greetings.

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #64:

Do you view the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as
the same event?

Yes, insofar as Matthew 24:5-31 refers to the same
unfulfilled tribulation and second coming as
Revelation chapters 6-19.

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #64:

There appears to be some confusion among the
Catholics and Partial preterist and Futurists about
this, but then I blame poor Bible Translations.
Thanks.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7276015
Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?

For example this form of the greek word for
"resurrection" is used only in 2 verses. Matt 12 and
1 Thess 4

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matt 12:41 ...

1 Thessalonians 4:16 ...

Matthew 12:41 refers to the same unfulfilled
resurrection and judgment of unbelievers as
Revelation 20:11-15.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 refers to the same unfulfilled
resurrection of the Church at the second coming as
Revelation 20:4-6; 1 Corinthians 15:22-23,52-53.

 

[HarrisonS]

Greetings. Do you view the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as the same event?
There appears to be some confusion among the Catholics and Partial preterist and Futurists about this, but then I blame poor Bible Translations. Thanks...

For example this form of the greek word for "resurrection" is used only in 2 verses. Matt 12 and 1 Thess 4

This is a very misleading statement. The Greek anasthsontai is simply the third person plural future middle indicative form of anisthmi (to rise up), which is the usual verb used for resurrection throughout the NT, and is used around 100 times! This is simply the verbal form of anastasis, the usual noun meaning resurrection, also used throughout the NT. The fact that it is here in the third person plural future middle indicative form is really irrelevant to the root meaning.

These words have been correctly translated, for the most part, in all of the English translations I have seen. Be careful that you do not twist Scripture!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is a very misleading statement. The Greek anasthsontai is simply the third person plural future middle indicative form of anisthmi (to rise up), which is the usual verb used for resurrection throughout the NT, and is used around 100 times! This is simply the verbal form of anastasis, the usual noun meaning resurrection, also used throughout the NT. The fact that it is here in the third person plural future middle indicative form is really irrelevant to the root meaning.

These words have been correctly translated, for the most part, in all of the English translations I have seen. Be careful that you do not twist Scripture!

God forbid!!!!!

Doesn't the root word of Ressurection also symbolize "to stand"
I saw this greek word in Acts 1 concerning restoring the Sceptre of Judah back to Israel and notice the parsing of this which seems to imply "from-down-standing"

Acts 1:6 The-ones indeed then coming together asked Him saying: "Lord!, if in to-the time, this, restoring/apo-kaqi-staneiV <600> (5719) the Kingdom/basileian <932> to-the Israel?"

Reve 11:11 And after the three days and half a spirit/breath of life out of the God into-came in them, and they stand/esthsan <2476> (5627) upon their feet, and great fear falls upon those seeing them. [Ezekiel 37 "valley of bones]

Reve 20:5 The rest of the dead-ones not live until should be being finished the thousand years. This the Resurrection/ana-stasiV <386>, the First/prwth <4413>.

 

[HarrisonS]

Doesn't the root word of Ressurection also symbolize "to stand"
I saw this greek word in Acts 1 concerning restoring the Sceptre of Judah back to Israel and notice the parsing of this which seems to imply "from-down-standing"

Acts 1:6 The-ones indeed then coming together asked Him saying: "Lord!, if in to-the time, this, restoring/apo-kaqi-staneiV <600> (5719) the Kingdom/basileian <932> to-the Israel?"

Reve 11:11 And after the three days and half a spirit/breath of life out of the God into-came in them, and they stand/esthsan <2476> (5627) upon their feet, and great fear falls upon those seeing them. [Ezekiel 37 "valley of bones]

Reve 20:5 The rest of the dead-ones not live until should be being finished the thousand years. This the Resurrection/ana-stasiV <386>, the First/prwth <4413>.

Very good. Yes, the root word is `isthmi which means &#8220;to stand&#8221;. In fact this is exactly the word used in your second reference in Rev. 11:11. The word there is esthsan (they stood up) which is just the aorist active indicative 3rd person plural of `isthmi. If you don&#8217;t have one already, you might pick up an analytical Greek lexicon, which lists not just all the words, but all the forms of all the words. The word anisthmi (to rise up, to rise again) is formed by adding the prefix ana, meaning up, or again. The second a is absorbed, since it is followed by a vowel.

Your third example in Rev. 20:5 is just the noun form anastasis, the usual word meaning resurrection.

Your first example in Acts 1:6 apokaqistaneis is an entirely different word; it is the present active indicative 2nd person singular of apokaqistanw meaning to restore. By the way, this passage (Acts 1:4-8) deals a fatal blow to amillennialism and replacement theology, which falsely teaches that the Church is the &#8220;new Israel&#8221;.

I hope this helps.

 

[Bible2]

HarrisonS posted in message #68:

By the way, this passage (Acts 1:4-8) deals a fatal
blow to amillennialism and replacement theology,
which falsely teaches that the Church is the "new
Israel".

While the Bible doesn't teach amillennialism or
replacement theology, it does teach that Jews in the
church are still Israel (Romans 11:1) and that
Gentiles in the church have been grafted into the
good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:24, cf. Jeremiah
11:16), the Jews' own olive tree (Romans 11:24b), and
that Gentiles in the church have been made the seed
of Abraham (Galatians 3:29) and fellowcitizens in
Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19). So the whole church is
Israel (Revelation 21:9b,12b).

There are also elect unbelieving Jews who are still
considered Israel, even though they, the natural
branches, have been cut off from their own olive tree
because of unbelief (Romans 11:20-21). They can be
grafted back in when they come into belief (Romans
11:23). All the elect unbelieving Jews who survive
the tribulation and are alive at the second coming
will be saved at that time (Romans 11:26-29,
Zechariah 12:10-14).

So the church hasn't replaced the Jews as Israel. But
when all the elect unbelieving Jews alive at the
second coming are saved they will be brought into the
church, just as Jews have always been brought into
the church when they get saved (1 Corinthians 12:13,
Romans 11:1), for there are no believers outside of
the church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

Unbelieving non-elect Jews are not considered by God
to be Israel (Romans 9:6-8) or even Jews (Romans
2:28-29, cf. Philippians 3:3) or even children of
Abraham (John 8:39-40) or even children of God
(John 8:42) or even of God at all (John 8:47).
Instead, God considers them to be the children of
Satan (John 8:44, Revelation 3:9, 2:9), just as
God consider all who will end up unsaved, no matter
whether they're Jews or Gentiles, to be the children
of Satan (Matthew 13:38-43, cf. 1 John 3:8-10).

While the Bible doesn't teach the idea of a "new
Israel", it does teach the idea of a new covenant
made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34). The church
is saved by this same new covenant (Matthew 26:28;
1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15).
That's why believing Gentiles need to be grafted into
Israel (Romans 11:24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians
3:29), so they too can obtain the salvation God has
given to Israel through the new covenant.

Regarding Acts 1:6, God will restore the kingdom to
Israel during the millennium, when Jesus will sit upon
the throne of David and rule the entire earth (Luke
1:32, Isaiah 9:7, Psalms 72:8, Zechariah 14:9). All
the Jews saved at the second coming (Romans 11:26-29,
Zechariah 12:10-14) will be in that kingdom of Israel,
just as will all the rest of those in the church, no
matter whether they're Jews or Gentiles, for the whole
church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the
millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29, Matthew
19:28, Luke 22:30).

 

[gwynedd1]

OOOHHHH....no, the return of Christ can't be post-millennial. He reigns until everything is put under his feet and then gives it all back to the Father. He has to restore earthly Israel. The return of the Bride who left at the very beginning of the millennium is definitely post-millennial because the New Jerusalem comes down after death has been destroyed which is at the GWT judgment at the end of the millenium. (I should qualify that...the Bride will be ruling/reigning with Christ during the millennium but doesn't not come down in the New Jerusalem until after it)

Why do you think this is on earth is the question. Jesus would not even be the high priest on earth according to scripture. Of course this comes from the mistaken idea that Christ does not reign yet in heaven.



Hello HisdaughterJen,

Hebrews 8

[/quote]
1Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a (A)high priest, who has taken His seat at (B)the right hand of the throne of the (C)Majesty in the heavens, 2a (D)minister in the sanctuary and in the (E)true tabernacle, which the Lord (F)pitched, not man.
3For every (G)high priest is appointed (H)to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.
4Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who (I)offer the gifts according to the Law;

[/quote]

 

[gwynedd1]

The time referent of Revelation is found in 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

Here is Adam Clarke on this verse:

Behold, he cometh with clouds - This relates to his coming to execute judgment on the enemies of his religion; perhaps to his coming to destroy Jerusalem, as he was to be particularly manifested to them that pierced him, which must mean the incredulous and rebellious Jews.

And all kindreds of the earth - &#928;&#945;&#963;&#945;&#953; &#945;&#953;&#788; &#966;&#965;&#955;&#945;&#953; &#964;&#951;&#962; &#947;&#951;&#962;&#903; All the tribes of the land. By this the Jewish people are most evidently intended, and therefore the whole verse may be understood as predicting the destruction of the Jews; and is a presumptive proof that the Apocalypse was written before the final overthrow of the Jewish state.

Hello Iosias,


Yes, well said, the word GE means land, dirt, world depending on the context.




This is the word. The same in both places.
&#947;&#8134;&#957;

http://biblos.com/luke/8-27.htm

26(V)Then they sailed to the country of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee. 27And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs.


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Now fleeing Judea and being thrown into synagogues makes a bit more sense.



Also tribes does not tend to refer to nations or multitudes but typically Israel.
This is the word used. The Septuagint for Psalms 122:4:
&#966;&#965;&#955;&#945;&#953;

I made it bold.

4To which the tribes (E)go up, even the tribes of the LORD--
An ordinance for Israel--
To give thanks to the name of the LORD.


Psalm 122:4 Greek OT: Septuagint
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The word used for many nations is ethnos and not used here. There really is no debate that the event was confined to Israel.


Now most obviously seen in plain English is:

Luke 21

27"(V)Then they will see (W)THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory.

Since Luke 21 and Revelation are of the same context or so it seems most people agree then it would seem that the time of the Gentiles should be cross referenced as the same event. Revelation says it lasted 42 months.

 

[Bible2]

gwynedd1 posted in message #71:

Since Luke 21 and Revelation are of the same context
or so it seems most people agree then it would seem
that the time of the Gentiles should be cross
referenced as the same event. Revelation says it
lasted 42 months.

It's precisely because Luke 21 is referring to the
same tribulation as Revelation chapters 6-18 that we
know that Luke 21 has not yet been fulfilled, for the
treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles in Luke
21:24 is the same as the 42-month treading down of
Jerusalem by the Gentiles in Revelation 11:2b, and
that is during the 42-month world-reign of the
Antichrist (the beast), which is shown from four
different angles in Revelation chapters 11-14
(11:2b-3, 12:6,14, 13:5b, 14:9). The events of
Revelation chapters 11-14 have never been fulfilled.
Therefore, Luke 21 hasn't been fulfilled.

 

[Notrash]

It's precisely because Luke 21 is referring to the same tribulation as Revelation chapters 6-18 that we know that Luke 21 has not yet been fulfilled, ,,,,,,,,,,, The events of Revelation chapters 11-14 have never been fulfilled. Therefore, Luke 21 hasn't been fulfilled.

LLOJ, we see that Bible 2 views that Matt 24 (Luke 21) and Rev are talking of the same event to answer your question.

Now the question is if he stands by his view when Luke 21 and Matt 24 are shown to be fulfilled, especially when Jesus specifically stated that the generation (that lifespan) would not pass untill all those things came to pass. But that perspective would not allow using the book of Revelation for soothsaying and fantacising and creating fear of the tribulation in people if they dont' follow the zionist/futurist plan for a rapture and restoration of national Israel, thus it might be unpopular.

Below are some of the historical fulfillments of Luke 21, Others have slightly different or additional perspectives and information.
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http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/pp_defined.html

B. THE SIGNS OF JESUS&#8217; COMING AND THE END OF THE AGE: THEIR FIRST CENTURY FULFILLMENT

1. FALSE CHRISTS AND PROPHETS DECEIVING MANY: (5, 11, 24). Josephus writes that many false prophets and false Messiahs appeared during the government of Felix (A.D. 53-60), deluding many. Such figures played a leading role in the Jewish revolt in late A.D. 66 that led to the Jewish War.

Adam Clarke

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1810_clarke_commentary.html

The FIRST sign is false Christs.
Verse 5. For many shall come in my name&#8212; 1. Josephus says, (War, b. ii. c. 13,) that there were many who, pretending to Divine inspiration, deceived the people, leading out numbers of them to the desert, pretending that God would there show them the signs of liberty, meaning redemption from the Roman power: and that an Egyptian false prophet led 30,000 men into the desert, who were almost all cut off by Felix. See Acts 21:38.
It was a just judgment for God to deliver up that people into the hands of false Christs who had rejected the true one. Soon after our Lord&#8217;s crucifixion, Simon Magus appeared, and persuaded the people of Samaria that he was the great power of God, Acts 8:9, 10; and boasted among the Jews that he was the son of God.
2. Of the same stamp and character was also Dositheus, the Samaritan, who pretended that he was the Christ foretold by Moses.
3. About twelve years after the death of our Lord, when Cuspius Fadus was procurator of Judea, arose an impostor of the name of Theudas, who said he was a prophet, and persuaded a great multitude to follow him with their best effects to the river Jordan, which he promised to divide for their passage; and saying these things, says Josephus, he deceived many: almost the very words of our Lord.
4. A few years afterwards, under the reign of Nero, while Felix was procurator of Judea, impostors of this stamp were so frequent that some were taken and killed almost every day. Joshua. Ant. b. xx. c. 4. and 7.

2. WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS (6-7). These would not have been perceived as an unusual sign during most periods of world history, but during the pax Romana war was extremely rare. E.g., Epictetus writes that "Caesar has obtained for us a profound peace. There are neither wars nor battles" (Discourses 3:13:9) Josephus and Tacitus both write of the unsettledness of the empire leading up to A.D. 70 (see below).

Adam Clarke

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1810_clarke_commentary.html
Verse 6. The next signs given by our Lord are wars and rumors of wars, etc.&#8212; These may be seen in Josephus, Ant. b. xviii. c. 9; War, b. ii. c. 10; especially as to the rumors of wars, when Caligula ordered his statue to be set up in the temple of God, which the Jews having refused, had every reason to expect a war with the Romans, and were in such consternation on the occasion that they even neglected to till their land.
Verse 7. Nation shall rise against nation&#8212;
This portended the dissensions, insurrections and mutual slaughter of the Jews, and those of other nations, who dwelt in the same cities together; as particularly at Caesarea, where the Jews and Syrians contended about the right of the city, which ended there in the total expulsion of the Jews, above 20,000 of whom were slain.
The whole Jewish nation being exasperated at this, flew to arms, and burnt and plundered the neighboring cities and villages of the Syrians, making an immense slaughter of the people. The Syrians, in return, destroyed not a less number of the Jews. At Scythopolis they murdered upwards of 13,000. At Ascalon they killed 2,500. At Ptolemais they slew 2000, and made many prisoners. The Tyrians also put many Jews to death, and imprisoned more: the people of Gadara did likewise; and all the other cities of Syria in proportion, as they hated or feared the Jews.
As Alexandria the Jews and heathens fought, and 50,000 of the former were slain. The people of Damascus conspired against the Jews of that city, and, assaulting them unarmed, killed 10,000 of them. See Bishop Newton, and Dr. Lardner.
Kingdom against kingdom&#8212; This portended the open wars of different tetrarchies and provinces against each other.
1st. That of the Jews and Galileans against the Samaritans, for the murder of some Galileans going up to the feast of Jerusalem, while Cumanus was procurator.
2dly. That of the whole nation of the Jews against the Romans and Agrippa, and other allies of the Roman empire; which began when Gessius Florus was procurator.
3dly. That of the civil war in Italy, while Otho and Vitellius were contending for the empire. It is worthy of remark, that the Jews themselves say, "In the time of the Messiah, wars shall be stirred up in the world; nation shall rise against nation, and city against city." Sohar Kadash. "Again, Rab. Eleasar, the son of Abina, said, When ye see kingdom rising against kingdom, then expect the immediate appearance of the Messiah." Bereshith Rabba, sect. 42.

3. FAMINES (7). Josephus writes that during Claudius' reign (A.D. 41-54) there were four seasons of great scarcity. In the fourth year of his reign, the famine in Judea was so severe that the price of food became enormous and great numbers died. Cf. Acts 11:28. He also describes starvation and cannibalism during the final five-month siege of Jerusalem (Wars 5.12.3 and 6.5.1)
4. EARTHQUAKES (7). These occurred in Caligula's (A.D. 37-41) and Claudius' (A.D. 41-54) reigns. Josephus reports many earthquakes in A.D. 68 in the midst of the Jewish War. He describes one particularly terrifying quake and lightning storm, remarking,"anyone would guess that these wonders foreshadowed some grand calamities that were coming" (Wars 4.4.5). Tacitus reports them throughout Rome, also nterpreting them as portents of impending divine judgment (Histories, 1.2-3)
5. PERSECUTION (9-10) - Jesus predicts the coming persecution and martyrdom of the church, and Israel's impending judgment, adding: "I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation" (Mt 23:32-36). The NT reports the intense persecution of Christians by the Jews in Acts 8:1 and 1 Thess 2:14-16.

6. APOSTASY (10-13): Hebrews reflects Jews apostatizing and returning to Judaism (Heb 2:1-3, 3:6 and 14, 6:4-6, 10:26-27). Cf. Gal 5:4; 1 Jn 2:18-20, and 4:3, but especially 2:24, all of which report apostacy during the time of the apostles. Also 1 Tim 4:1, 2 Pet 2:1-2 and 20-21.

7. GOSPEL PREACHED IN ALL THE WORLD (14): "World" is Roman world. NT statements that this had taken place by A.D. 70 - Acts 24:5, Rom 1:8 and Col 1:6, 23: "All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing. ... This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I Paul, have become a servant."

8. ABOMINATION THAT CAUSES DESOLATION (15):
a. CHRIST REFERS TO THE HERODIAN TEMPLE, NOT SOME FUTURE ONE: Mt24:1-2
b. JESUS' PROPHESY OF THE SIEGE OF JERUSALEM (Lk 21:20) AND DESECRATION OF THE TEMPLE IS CONFIRMED BY JOSEPHUS: "After the five month siege they breached the wall, burned the temple down and worshiped Caesar atg its eastern gate" (Wars 6.6.1)


9. DISTRESS UNEQUALED AND NEVER TO BE EQUALED AGAIN (21)
a. LOSS OF LIFE: 1.1 million Jews died during the Jewish War (Wars 6.9.2).
b. JOSEPHUS REPORTS TERRIBLE CARNAGE: Jerusalem, the temple, the Mediterranean, Sea of Galilee, Jordan, and Dead Sea covered with blood and gorged with bodies (Wars 3.9.3; 3.10.9; 4.7.6; 4.1.10; 4.5.1; 5.1.3; 6.8.5). Cf. Rev 8:8-11
c. JOSEPHUS reports the Romans laying waste to Israel, setting fire to towns, cities, and trees (Wars 6.1.1; 3.7.8; 5.6.2; 3.7.1; 3.7.8; 5.6.2; 3.4.1; 6.6.2; 7.5.5). Cf. Rev 18:8
d. DISTRESS "UNEQUALED SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD AND NEVER TO BE EQUALED AGAIN"? This may be a dramatic device used for emphasis. Such language is used elsewhere in Scripture (Ez 5:9, 2 Kgs 18:5, 23:25). Yet this judgment upon Jerusalem was without equal.


10. CHRIST&#8217;S COMING ON THE CLOUDS (27, 30):
a. CLOUD COMING AN OT IMAGE OF GOD COMING IN JUDGMENT (Is 19:1, Ps 18:7-15, Mic 1:3-4)
b. HEAVENLY ARMIES REPORTED BY JOSEPHUS (Wars 6.5.3) AND TACITUS: "In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armor" (Histories 5.13)

11. THE COLLAPSE OF THE UNIVERSE (29): The same cosmic language is used of the destruction of Babylon by the Medes (Is 13:9-10), and a prophesy against the nations (Is 34:3-5), both of which Christ quotes. Similar language is used of a judgment of the "people of the earth" in Is 21:18-23, of the judgment of Judah in Jer 4:23-29, and of the Day of the Lord in Joel 2:30-31.

12. THE GATHERING OF THE ELECT (31): Postmillennialists interpret this as having to do with Christ sending forth his messengers (missionaries) throughout the earth and the conversion of Gentiles from all nations after the fall of Jerusalem.
a. THE MEANING OF ANGELOS: The word translated "angel" (angelos) can just as easily be translated "messenger" (as it is in Mt 11:10, Mk 1:2 , Lk 7:24, 27).
b. THE MEANING OF THE TRUMPET CALL: In the year of Jubilee complete forgiveness of debts was announced by a trumpet call: Lev 25: 9-10.
c. THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL AND GROWTH OF CHRISTIANITY: Ignatius, Melito of Sardis, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Lactantius and others point back to A.D. 70 as proof that God favored the Christians, not the Jews, thus paving the way for the advance of Christianity. Cf. Rev 3:9

C. UPSHOT
​

1. CHRIST CAME IN JUDGMENT IN A.D. 70 AFTER THE JEWS HAD "FILLED UP THE MEASURE OF THEIR FOREFATHERS&#8217; SINS" (Mt 23:32).
2. THIS JUDGMENT WAS THE PROPHESIED "DAY OF THE LORD." Mal 4:1-5 (cf. Mt 11:14). According to Amos 5:18-20 and Zeph 1:1-17 the Day of the Lord would be a day of judgment upon the Jews Hence when the disciples asked Jesus in Mt 24:3 about the sign of his coming and of the end of the age, Jesus spoke of the end of the Jewish age and the hastening Day of the Lord against Israel.
​

 

[Bible2]

Matthew 24:34 could refer to the generation that saw
the re-budding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32), which
could represent the restoration of Israel (cf. Hosea
9:10) in November, 1947.

Matthew 24:14 is referring to the gospel actually
reaching every nation on the earth (Revelation 7:9,
5:9-10).

Matthew 24:6-7 includes reference to the unfulfilled
great war and resulting famine of Revelation 6:4-6,
which will end up killing one-fourth of the world
(Revelation 6:8). The "great sword" of this war could
be nuclear weapons.

There are also the subsequent, unfulfilled heavenly
signs and earthquake-cataclysm of Revelation 6:12-17.

There are also the subsequent, myriad unfulfilled
events of Revelation 8:7-9:19.

There are also the subsequent, unfulfilled events of
Revelation chapter 11.

Matthew 24:24 includes reference to the unfulfilled
Antichrist and False Prophet of Revelation 13:4-18,
who will be cast into the lake of fire at the
unfulfilled second coming (Revelation 19:19-21).

Matthew 24:9 includes reference to the unfulfilled
persecution of the church by the Antichrist in
Revelation 13:7-18, 14:9-13, 20:4.

Matthew 24:10-12 includes reference to the unfulfilled
apostasy of 2 Thessalonians 2:3, which is spoken of in
connection with 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Matthew 24:15 is referring to unfulfilled Daniel
11:31,36, 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Matthew 24:21-22 is referring to the unfulfilled
global distress of Luke 21:35,25-26.

There are also the unfulfilled events of Revelation 16.

Matthew 24:2 is referring to the unfulfilled
Luke 19:44: the stones of the Wailing Wall still
stand one upon another.

Matthew 24:29 is unfulfilled. Also note that it will
not occur until after the tribulation is all over.

Matthew 24:30-31 is referring to the unfulfilled
2 Thessalonians 2:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, and
Revelation 19:7.

Matthew 24:30 is also referring to the unfulfilled
Zechariah 14:3-4, Revelation 1:7, and Revelation
19:11-21.

There are also the unfulfilled events of Zechariah
14:5-21, Micah 4:1-4, and Revelation 20:1-6, 5:10,
2:26-29.

There are also the unfulfilled events of Isaiah
11:9-16, Isaiah 19:17-25, and Zechariah 12:9-14.

There are also the unfulfilled events of Revelation
20:7-9 and Ezekiel chapters 38-39.

There are also the unfulfilled events of Revelation
20:10-15, 14:10-11, Matthew 25:31-46, and Mark 9:45-46.

There are also the unfulfilled events of Revelation
21:1-8 and Isaiah 66:22-24.