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The Liturgist

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If you read Isaiah 14:1-12 it would be clear these verses refer not to the devil but to Nebuchadnezzar, as Martin Luther and John Calvin pointed out.

But if we accept that both Luther and Calvin were wrong and so were all the church fathers except St. Augustine, Origen and Tertullian, Lucifer still would not be the name of the devil, because the correct translation of those verses is:

12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
14 “I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."
15 Bur you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.

- New International Version (1984 Edition, e.g. the good one)
 
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The Liturgist

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That is completely false. If you worship anyone other than Jesus Christ, it is Satanic. However, Jesus Christ is referred to as Lucifer in the hymns mentioned in the OP written by Hilary of Poitiers and Ambrose of Milan, among others, and other Latin hymns refer to John the Baptist (who is not to be worshipped as he is not God) as Lucifer.

The 2 billion Roman Catholics and 150 million Lutherans and Anglicans use the hymns in question are not worshipping the “Lucifer” by which I mean the devil, who is popularly but incorrectly called Lucifer.

Conversely, people who do worship “Lucifer” are not only engaging in the sin of devil worship (and all non-Christian worship and idolatry is devil worship; Psalm 95:5 in the Septuagint reads “The Gods of the Gentiles are Devils”; in the Masoretic Text the equivalent verse, Psalm 96:5, reads “The Gods of the Gentiles are Idols”, so we can say a full reading of verse 5 from this Psalm is “The idols the gentiles worship as gods are devils”), but of blasphemy, because they are appropriating an appelation of Christ and John the Baptist and referring to the devil using that appelation. Since only Christ is the Light of the World and can be accurately called “the bearer of light.”

The devil is of darkness and cannot tolerate Light.
 
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Refirened

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It doesn't change the fact that Lucifer is known as a name of the devil. You denying facts doesn't change the fact that high profile Satanists worship Lucifer instead of Jesus. You're just basically helping a satanic deity to transform itself into something good. Theirs one name given for man to be saved and that is not Lucifer. I don't agree with Catholic doctrine either.

I'll keep posting links to different dictionaries to show the facts.

Lucifer
noun

UK

/ˈluː.sɪ.fər/ US

/ˈluː.sə.fɚ/

name for Satan (= a powerful evil force and the enemy of God)

Lucifer | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
(Revelation 22:16) Jesus is the morning star

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star." (Revelation 2:26-28) Those who overcome are given Jesus.

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:7) The morning stars are compared to sons of God, and likely refer either to angels, or saints, or both.

"How you’ve fallen from heaven, morning star, son of dawn! You are cut down to earth, helpless on your back!" (Isaiah 14:11) A sarcastic reference to the king of Babylon, comparing him, formerly, to a thing of glory.

You denying facts doesn't change the fact that high profile Satanists worship Lucifer instead of Jesus.
They call the devil "Lord," and they seek to give him all titles belonging to our Lord and Savior. Now, either you can adopt their blasphemous terminology, or you can deny it. I'm not a Satanist, so I think I'll excuse myself from their lexicon.
 
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JackRT

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It doesn't change the fact that Lucifer is known as a name of the devil. You denying facts doesn't change the fact that high profile Satanists worship Lucifer instead of Jesus.

That tells me that the Satanists are just as misinformed about the meaning of "Lucifer" as those Christians who think it refers to the Devil.
 
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Refirened

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You worship Lucifer then which according to the fact is connected with the devil and ill worship Jesus. Names are important.


Acts 4:10-12

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.​
 
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Jermayn

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If I remember correctly, the word "phospheros" was used as a translation for 6 or 7 different Hebrew words. I believe as the Greek Lexicon was being translated into the Latin Vulgate, this would have caused some contradiction, specifically the same name being used for Jesus and Satan, so they just stuck with Lucifer, which people of that time were already familiar with as being THE Satan. In actuality, the term "Lucifer" more closely describes Jesus because Jesus is described as the bright and morning star in the Revelation. The fallen angel we know as Lucifer today was actually called Haylel (may have spelled that wrong) in the OT, which really translates to "the howling one" or "the proud/boastful one". Ultimately, it doesn't really matter though as meanings of words change over time. We know Jesus is the son of God and we know Lucifer as the cherub who rebelled against him now, so it doesn't really cause any confusion even if it was translated a little weird back in the day.
 
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Refirened

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That tells me that the Satanists are just as misinformed about the meaning of "Lucifer" as those Christians who think it refers to the Devil.

You need to write to every dictionary publisher around the world and inform them. If only you had been to help all these people throughout history hey.
 
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Refirened

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Isaiah 14:12-15

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
 
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Jermayn

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What part doesn't make sense?
 
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Jermayn

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JackRT

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You need to write to every dictionary publisher around the world and inform them. If only you had been to help all these people throughout history hey.

Alas and alack, I was born too late. But that was not my fault.
 
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Jermayn

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To connect the morning star/son of the morning mentioned in Isaiah 14:12-15 with Jesus makes no sense at all. Its referring to the fall of satan who is Lucifer.

You're using an English translation. In the original Hebrew, that verse mentioned nothing about a star or morning. The Hebrew word used was Haylel, which translates to either "the howling one" or "the proud/boastful one".
 
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Refirened

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You're using an English translation. In the original Hebrew, that verse mentioned nothing about a star or morning. The Hebrew word used was Haylel, which translates to either "the howling one" or "the proud/boastful one".


I'm just going to leaves links here to accredited sources. Post links to accredited sources.

H1966 - heylel - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

הֵילֵל hêylêl, hay-lale'; from H1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:—lucifer.
 
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