loyalty to the people of Israel?

[Typisch]

I have another question. I don't know if I understand this with loyalty to the people of Israel, i.e. the Jews. Because we are now Christians and not Jews. Isn't this somehow disloyal of Jesus to start a new religion because the Jews didn't recognize him? God is faithful to the Jews but now they have to take the next step and become Christians? Or if Judaism does recognize Jesus as the Messiah, will we all become Jews again?

 

[Lost4words]

We have our roots in The Jewish faith.

Jesus gave us His new church remember. A new covenant.

The Jews refused to believe in Him. They wanted to stick to thier own old ways without seeing Jesus for who He really is, the Son of God. The true Messiah...

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I have another question. I don't know if I understand this with loyalty to the people of Israel, i.e. the Jews. Because we are now Christians and not Jews. Isn't this somehow disloyal of Jesus to start a new religion because the Jews didn't recognize him? God is faithful to the Jews but now they have to take the next step and become Christians? Or if Judaism does recognize Jesus as the Messiah, will we all become Jews again?

Welcome to CF. These questions are controversial and may not be easily answered without some repricution. Our loyalty is to Jesus Christ of Nazareth our King. After that, we must discern who we are loyal to. Blessings.

 

[trophy33]

Those who believe in Christ are Israel. Those who do not believe, are not Israel, no matter how they call themselves.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

I have another question. I don't know if I understand this with loyalty to the people of Israel, i.e. the Jews. Because we are now Christians and not Jews. Isn't this somehow disloyal of Jesus to start a new religion because the Jews didn't recognize him? God is faithful to the Jews but now they have to take the next step and become Christians? Or if Judaism does recognize Jesus as the Messiah, will we all become Jews again?

If a Jew believes in Jesus as their Savior, the Jew will become a Christian. We can call them Messianic Jews as they are proud to be Jews. Believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is actually the most Jewish thing a Jew can believe.

 

[Soyeong]

I have another question. I don't know if I understand this with loyalty to the people of Israel, i.e. the Jews. Because we are now Christians and not Jews. Isn't this somehow disloyal of Jesus to start a new religion because the Jews didn't recognize him? God is faithful to the Jews but now they have to take the next step and become Christians? Or if Judaism does recognize Jesus as the Messiah, will we all become Jews again?

Jesus did not come to start his own religion following a different God, but rather he came as the Jewish Messiah of Judaism in fulfillment of Jewish prophecy and he set a perfect example for us to follow of how to embody Judaism by living in sinless obedience to the Torah, so it is disloyal to Messiah to the extent that someone treats Christianity as being a different religion. In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith who were all zealous for the Torah, which is in accordance with believing Titus 2:14, where Messiah gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so Jews coming to faith in Messiah were not ceasing to practice Judaism, but were becoming zealous for it. So Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its prophesied Messiah. Following the Jewish Messiah is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too, so Gentiles do not need to become Jews in order to follow him, but Gentiles can't follow him by refusing to follow the religion that he embodied.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

We have our roots in The Jewish faith.

The Jews refused to believe in Him.

SOME Jews did not...Paul was a Jew, Peter was a Jew, etc...

 

[trophy33]

We have our roots in The Jewish faith.

I would rather say we have our roots in Christ. The faith in Christ was mostly Jewish before His coming. Then Jews rejected Him, but Gentiles accepted. So Jews fell away from faith and we were taken in.

In any case, after Christ, there is no Jew or Greek. Only Christians and non-Christians. Flesh is nothing, faith is what counts.

 

[tturt]

Also, God's views include:
God said to Abram "And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Gen 2:1-2

"For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth." Deu 7:6

"In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites." Gen 15

Apostle Paul "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." Rom 11:1

'"For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]" Rom 11:29

 

[trophy33]

Also, how God views Israel, His people such as
God said to Abram "And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Gen 2:1-2

"For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth." Deu 7:6

Apostle Paul "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." Rom 11:1

'"For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]" Rom 11:29

There is no racism and no ethnical supremacy in the kingdom of God. Those who believe in Christ, are true Israel and the children of Abraham. Its not about anything else.

 

[tturt]

God will remain loyal to His people and land:
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

will include
"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Matt 25 His brethren are the Jewish people.

From Joel 3:2
"I will gather together all the [Gentile] nations [that were hostile to My people] And bring them down into the Valley of Jehoshaphat (the Lord has judged). And there I will deal with them and enter into judgment with them there For [their treatment of] My people, My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations, And [because] they have encroached on My land and divided it up."

 

[trophy33]

God will remain loyal to His people and land...His brethren are the Jewish people.

God's people are Christians and His land is heaven. Jesus' brethren are Christians from all nations.

However, God cares for all people, even those who are not professing Christians. From all nations. And so should we.

There is no longer "Greek or Jew", this ethnical wall of separation was destroyed in the first century.

And our loyalty is to what is good, just, merciful, charitable... no matter if it comes from China, Japan, Norway, Mexico, Palestine, Israel, USA or Brasil.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I have another question. I don't know if I understand this with loyalty to the people of Israel, i.e. the Jews. Because we are now Christians and not Jews. Isn't this somehow disloyal of Jesus to start a new religion because the Jews didn't recognize him? God is faithful to the Jews but now they have to take the next step and become Christians? Or if Judaism does recognize Jesus as the Messiah, will we all become Jews again?

We, NT believers, are referred to as Jews or Israel of God in some areas of the NT. Salvation is from the Jews, the Olive tree of God, and we other Christians are grafted in so to speak... Apostle Paul pens this analogy in Romans.

Salvation is from the Jews...converted Jews. They held and preserved the promise of the coming Messiah...when He appeared, many were converted, but many rejected Christ...as you know. Then, the Gospel went out...in a formal effort...to the Gentiles.
So then, in my view, our affection for and obligation to evangelize the Jews remains as Apostle Paul also pens in Romans.
They are however enemies to the Gospel and so we exercise discretion in all our actions to them.

 

[Danny&Annie&theChristmas]

I have another question. I don't know if I understand this with loyalty to the people of Israel, i.e. the Jews. Because we are now Christians and not Jews. Isn't this somehow disloyal of Jesus to start a new religion because the Jews didn't recognize him? God is faithful to the Jews but now they have to take the next step and become Christians? Or if Judaism does recognize Jesus as the Messiah, will we all become Jews again?

The Word of God says and many Christians believe, they are adopted into being part God's people and that they have been grafted in. Others believe in replacement theology.

 

[Yusuphhai]

Lutheranism around the world has issued many statements on the relationship between Christianity and Judaism.

Wallmann, Johannes. "The Reception of Luther's Writings on the Jews from the Reformation to the End of the 19th Century", Lutheran Quarterly, n.s. 1 (Spring 1987) 1:72–97. Wallmann writes: "The assertion that Luther's expressions of anti-Jewish sentiment have been of major and persistent influence in the centuries after the Reformation, and that there exists a continuity between Protestant anti-Judaism and modern racially oriented antisemitism, is at present wide-spread in the literature; since the Second World War it has understandably become the prevailing opinion."

In the Driebergen Declaration (1991), the Lutheran Church and the Jewish European Council (LEKKJ)... rejected the traditional Christian doctrine of "contempt for Jews and Judaism," particularly Martin Luther's anti Semitic writings, in which the Church needed to reform its operations. In this context, LEKKJ welcomes the promulgation of "Truth: A Jewish Declaration about Christians and Christianity.". We see in this statement its affirmation of our past work... We know that we must re-examine the themes in Lutheran theology, which have repeatedly brought hostility towards Jews in the past... We are fully aware that the Dabru Emet （Truth） was the first dialogue that Jews invited us to have, and we also see in this statement that it can help us express and live out our faith, Enable us not to denigrate Jews, but to respect their uniqueness, allowing us to more clearly articulate our own identity through the eyes of others.

Road to Jerusalem - Germany?

Howdy ya'll I'm writing this while sitting in the back of the room and listening to David Davis preach at T.O.S., a church in tubingen germany We are in the 3rd day of a 5 day conference which they have called "Road to Jerusalem". No relation to the one happening in America...this one is...

www.christianforums.com

 

[com7fy8]

Isn't this somehow disloyal of Jesus to start a new religion because the Jews didn't recognize him? God is faithful to the Jews but now they have to take the next step and become Christians?

Jesus is God's own Son. He is the best blessing God has for the Jews, along with the Holy Spirit. This has always been the case.

But the Law of Moses has come to the Jews in order to help them to Jesus and Christianity.

So, if certain Jews are so conceited, that they consider Jesus to be not good enough for them . . . they are the ones unfaithful and disloyal to the nation of Israel.

So, we love and are loyal to Jews, by helping them to trust in Jesus.

And while any Jews are doing what is wrong, we are not being loyal to them by supporting their wrong activity.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I have another question. I don't know if I understand this with loyalty to the people of Israel, i.e. the Jews. Because we are now Christians and not Jews. Isn't this somehow disloyal of Jesus to start a new religion because the Jews didn't recognize him? God is faithful to the Jews but now they have to take the next step and become Christians? Or if Judaism does recognize Jesus as the Messiah, will we all become Jews again?

Look at Romans chapter 11 where Paul talks about the olive tree and olive branches.

In Christianity a Jew doesn't become a Gentile, and a Gentile doesn't become a Jew. But they don't need to. Because whether one is Jewish or Gentile, in Jesus all are one, a new people.

The olive tree has both natural branches and wild branches which were grafted on--but all drink of the same nourishment from the root. The natural branches which were pruned, and wild branches which are not grafted suffer the same problem--they are not connected to the life-giving root of the olive tree.

Whether a natural or wild grafted branch, the two are the same when connected to the root.
Whether a natural or wild branch which is separated from the root, neither has life unless they are connected and restored to the root.

Being a Jew or being a Gentile isn't what matters.
Jesus Christ is what matters.

Has God forsaken those Jews who are not in Christ? No.
Has God neglected those Gentiles who are not in Christ? No.

For God has consigned all to disobedience in order that He might have mercy on all (Romans 11:32); for the Gospel is the power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Gentile (Romans 1:16). For in this Gospel is the righteousness of God, from faith to faith, so that the righteous live by faith (Romans 1:17). Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing; but Christ is everything.

So there is one People, one Church, one Israel--in the Messiah. For where the two (Jew and Gentile) were formerly strangers, the both are now one.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Look at Romans chapter 11 where Paul talks about the olive tree and olive branches.

In Christianity a Jew doesn't become a Gentile, and a Gentile doesn't become a Jew. But they don't need to. Because whether one is Jewish or Gentile, in Jesus all are one, a new people.

The olive tree has both natural branches and wild branches which were grafted on--but all drink of the same nourishment from the root. The natural branches which were pruned, and wild branches which are not grafted suffer the same problem--they are not connected to the life-giving root of the olive tree.

Whether a natural or wild grafted branch, the two are the same when connected to the root.
Whether a natural or wild branch which is separated from the root, neither has life unless they are connected and restored to the root.

Being a Jew or being a Gentile isn't what matters.
Jesus Christ is what matters.

Has God forsaken those Jews who are not in Christ? No.
Has God neglected those Gentiles who are not in Christ? No.

For God has consigned all to disobedience in order that He might have mercy on all (Romans 11:32); for the Gospel is the power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Gentile (Romans 1:16). For in this Gospel is the righteousness of God, from faith to faith, so that the righteous live by faith (Romans 1:17). Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing; but Christ is everything.

So there is one People, one Church, one Israel--in the Messiah. For where the two (Jew and Gentile) were formerly strangers, the both are now one.

-CryptoLutheran

I agree as according to Galations 3:27-29:
27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

According to the following passages God still refers to His followers as Jews...
Revelation 2:9:
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9:
9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

He also refers to them as the Israel of God...
Galatians 6:16:
16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to[a] the Israel of God.
Ephesians 2:12:
12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
Hebrews 8:8:
8 But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
Hebrews 8:10:
This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

 

[ralliann]

If a Jew believes in Jesus as their Savior, the Jew will become a Christian. We can call them Messianic Jews as they are proud to be Jews. Believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is actually the most Jewish thing a Jew can believe.

Not all Christian Jew's are Messianic.

 

[The Liturgist]

SOME Jews did not...Paul was a Jew, Peter was a Jew, etc...

Indeed, I believe the majority of Jews did embrace our Lord, given the ethnic makeup that one finds in the Antiochian Orthodox Church, the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Maronite Catholic Church, the Syriac Catholic Church, the Melkite Catholic Church, and in the Church of the East, the Chaldean Catholic Church and among the Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant and Assyrian denominations that exist among the St. Thomas Christians of India (and certainly the vast majority of the Kochin Jews of India did eventually convert to Christianity, with the small number of remaining Kochin Jews sadly leaving India after the end of the British Raj, so that their main synagogue, the Paradesi Synagogue in Kerala, which is tiny in comparision even to most churches of their Christian neighbors, let alone the main cathedrals of the different Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant and Assyrian denominations, cannot form a Minyan, the required quorum of ten Jewish males who have undergone the Bar Mitzvah in order for worship to take place in an orthodox Rabinnical synagogue).