Love Thy Enemy... But to what extent?

[Bknight006]

Of course, everyone's familiar with the phrase "Love thy enemy". However, what do you interpret that as? To what extent to you take that?

To me, it means to feel no malice towards an enemy. I don't think it calls for love in the traditional sense, but you aren't supposed to hate them. I generally kind of picture how the Jedi go about dealing with the Sith in the Prequel trilogy and the Clone Wars.

What do you guys interpret it as?

 

[revanneosl]

The admonition to "love thy enemy" originates with Jesus, as attested in Mt. 5: 43-48. His enacted interpretation of this maxim was to let his enemies judicially murder him, without retaliating in any way.

If you're not a Christian, then you can decide to soften down the call to love to any degree you like. But if you're a Christian, the example of Christ is clear: absolute love, no retaliation, even unto death.

 

[John The Recorder Player]

It is very difficult to control how we "feel" about someone. It's very difficult to feel no malice towards someone who is trying to kill you. When Jesus speaks of love he is speaking of love as a verb. Love as an action deals with how we treat people. My thoughts about this particular issue pretty much mirror those of revanneosi. When Jesus spoke of loving one's neighbor he gave the example of the good Samaritan. In that example the Good Samaritan goes beyond emotion and physically and financially cared for the injured man. That is love in action.

 

[Bknight006]

The admonition to "love thy enemy" originates with Jesus, as attested in Mt. 5: 43-48. His enacted interpretation of this maxim was to let his enemies judicially murder him, without retaliating in any way.

If you're not a Christian, then you can decide to soften down the call to love to any degree you like. But if you're a Christian, the example of Christ is clear: absolute love, no retaliation, even unto death.

I am a Christian, but Jesus did that because it was circumstantially necessary. It was the only way we could be saved. However, the Bible doesn't call us to pacifism. In fact, it permits us to join the military, to defend ourselves verbally and physically, etc, etc, but only if we do so without malice, seeking only to save lives and remove the threat that the hostile force represents. See the essay on this page for details: www.desiringgod.org/articles/did-jesus-teach-pacifism.

 

[ken777]

Of course, everyone's familiar with the phrase "Love thy enemy". However, what do you interpret that as? To what extent to you take that?

To me, it means to feel no malice towards an enemy. I don't think it calls for love in the traditional sense, but you aren't supposed to hate them. I generally kind of picture how the Jedi go about dealing with the Sith in the Prequel trilogy and the Clone Wars.

What do you guys interpret it as?

Jesus spoke very bluntly to those who opposed the kingdom of God, and He even took a whip to some in the Temple. So the 'warm fuzzy' Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible.
However, love is expressed in forgiveness, and in how we treat others, even those who might hate us ... or hate what we stand for.

.

 

[revanneosl]

I am a Christian, but Jesus did that because it was circumstantially necessary. It was the only way we could be saved. However, the Bible doesn't call us to pacifism. In fact, it permits us to join the military, to defend ourselves verbally and physically, etc, etc, but only if we do so without malice, seeking only to save lives and remove the threat that the hostile force represents. See the essay on this page for details: www.desiringgod.org/articles/did-jesus-teach-pacifism.

For the first four centuries, the church taught that Christians are called to pacifism. Soldiers, police officers , and judicial magistrates were all forbidden baptism because their jobs required them to deal death. It was only the prospect of Imperial sponsorship that led us to loosen those rules.

The history of Christianity would have been quite different had we not chosen to be chaplains to Caesar.

 

[SuperCloud]

For the first four centuries, the church taught that Christians are called to pacifism. Soldiers, police officers , and judicial magistrates were all forbidden baptism because their jobs required them to deal death. It was only the prospect of Imperial sponsorship that led us to loosen those rules.

The history of Christianity would have been quite different had we not chosen to be chaplains to Caesar.

Christianity was not pacifist. Some Christians were pacifists.

And Ethiopia was officially Christian before Rome was. About 4 kingdoms were before Rome. Pretty sure they had soldiers.

A father is out walking in rural Ethiopia with his 7 year-old daughter that depends on him. As it is they both live in abject poverty. The little girl's survival still depends on the father. Three muggers jump out and potentially aim to kill the father. I do not reason God finds it justice done by the father onto his little girl to simply allow the attacker to kill him. No, with a large bleached animal bone he breaks the jaw of one, smashes it on the knee and back neck of another, and uses it to upper cut and then crack the eye socket of another.

Semper Fi. Hallelujah, he did his job for the day.

 

[revanneosl]

If a man strikes you on you right cheek, offer him your left.

Self-defense is perfectly normal, understandable, a d human. It is not, however, one whit less a sin for all of that.

 

[MiniEmu]

It's an interesting topic to explore really, especially when you start looking into the examples shown to us in scripture. I also do not think it is not something where you can be all or nothing.

There are times when God has commanded violence, or approved it as punishment for certain contradictions of His word, but without such guidance the default position is (I believe) to look at your enemy and see a fellow, flawed human being in need of your understanding, not condemnation.

Similarly love is not always warm and fuzzy, but it not always violent or harsh. It (should be) measured and proportionate, genuine efforts should be made to be compassionate in the approaches that are made. Is there love in killing an attacker? No. Is there love in preventing him from killing you, and in making the effort to remember they are a person who deserves to be treated with kindness.

Reading through the Bible shows us that violence is the last resort, when kindness and compassion have been freely given but rejected. Even then it is only such acts commanded by Him that are favourable. So we are to love, and in love we are to seek understanding of our enemies, to treat them kindly. Not to act in hate, not to seek to hurt, not to desire punishment.

Kindness and love have almost become watered down words, and that is a shame.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

"Love thy enemy" means as it states.
However, killing does not have to be in malice. God loves you, but He can also kill you.

The teaching is not some crown of pacifism.

 

[keembo]

Jesus spoke very bluntly to those who opposed the kingdom of God, and He even took a whip to some in the Temple. So the 'warm fuzzy' Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible.
However, love is expressed in forgiveness, and in how we treat others, even those who might hate us ... or hate what we stand for.

.

I don't think someone is talking about a "warm fuzzy" Jesus. You are correct in that Jesus took a whip (didn't kill) to drive the money changers out of the temple. What is unique is that none of his followers took the whip. "vengeance is Mine sayeth the Lord." Scripture shows nowhere that God solicits our opinions regarding his teachings...only obedience. Jesus turned his cheeks to his enemies and followed his own directions in "praying for those who hate you." He asked the Father "forgive them for they know not what they do. He also said that "he who loses his life for My sake will gain it," so forgiving and turning one's cheek to an earthly enemy should mean nothing to us except being obedient. In other words, Jesus was telling us to "look good on wood" when he said to "pick up your cross and follow me." If you want to extend your life and worry about what might happen to you here, you are just having a difficult time understanding what he commanded you to do. He doesn't want our opinions...he wants our obedience. God's peace to you all.

 

[FireDragon76]

For the first four centuries, the church taught that Christians are called to pacifism. Soldiers, police officers , and judicial magistrates were all forbidden baptism because their jobs required them to deal death.

Augustine was one of the first to say it was OK to be a soldier and a Christian.

Some early Christians and Anabaptists were misguided. Christians should in general not endorse war or violence but there are times that killing may be the only choice that serves justice. I would tend to follow the theology of Reinhold Niebuhr, Gustavo Gutierrez, and other modern Protestant/Catholic theologians on that matter- in a sinful world love is articulated in concrete acts of justice.

 

[True Scotsman]

Of course, everyone's familiar with the phrase "Love thy enemy". However, what do you interpret that as? To what extent to you take that?

To me, it means to feel no malice towards an enemy. I don't think it calls for love in the traditional sense, but you aren't supposed to hate them. I generally kind of picture how the Jedi go about dealing with the Sith in the Prequel trilogy and the Clone Wars.

What do you guys interpret it as?

To me it means self abnegation, self sacrifice.

 

[FireDragon76]

Self-sacrifice becomes a harmful command or law when it is pushed on those with fragile, broken consciences - victims of abuse or trauma. For such persons, loving the neighbor must start with loving themselves, from whom they have become estranged.

 

[True Scotsman]

Self-sacrifice becomes a harmful command or law when it is pushed on those with fragile, broken consciences - victims of abuse or trauma. For such persons, loving the neighbor must start with loving themselves, from whom they have become estranged.

I think it's harmful always and in every respect because it demands that you hold the self as the standard of evil.

 

[zippy2006]

I am a Christian, but Jesus did that because it was circumstantially necessary. It was the only way we could be saved. However, the Bible doesn't call us to pacifism. In fact, it permits us to join the military, to defend ourselves verbally and physically, etc, etc, but only if we do so without malice, seeking only to save lives and remove the threat that the hostile force represents. See the essay on this page for details: www.desiringgod.org/articles/did-jesus-teach-pacifism.

Certainly Christianity does not imply pacifism, but merely defining love as the avoidance of malice seems incomplete to me. Love is active, it implies a movement of the will. According to St. Thomas it is to will the good of another. We are called to desire what is good for others--to love them--to desire the very best for them in this life and after.

To me it means self abnegation, self sacrifice.

You say that because it provides a target for Objectivism. Of course love is not abnegation either according to the dictionary or Christian tradition. But what is interesting is that Rand's greatest teacher, Aristotle, defined love the same way the Christians do, "...wishing for him what you believe to be good things, not for your own sake but for his, and being inclined, so far as you can, to bring these things about" (Rhetoric, II, 4). Indeed, this is St. Thomas' source. It is also interesting that, when talking about the efficacy of Christ's passion, St. Thomas notes that the efficacy comes primarily from Christ's love rather than his suffering, clearly indicating a difference between love and self-sacrifice.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Of course, everyone's familiar with the phrase "Love thy enemy". However, what do you interpret that as? To what extent to you take that?

To me, it means to feel no malice towards an enemy. I don't think it calls for love in the traditional sense, but you aren't supposed to hate them. I generally kind of picture how the Jedi go about dealing with the Sith in the Prequel trilogy and the Clone Wars.

What do you guys interpret it as?

I agree with you. I cannot love someone I dislike in that way I can love someone close to me. But I can be respectful to them, not cause them ill will or harm, and be honest with them.

 

[True Scotsman]

Certainly Christianity does not imply pacifism, but merely defining love as the avoidance of malice seems incomplete to me. Love is active, it implies a movement of the will. According to St. Thomas it is to will the good of another. We are called to desire what is good for others--to love them--to desire the very best for them in this life and after.



You say that because it provides a target for Objectivism. Of course love is not abnegation either according to the dictionary or Christian tradition. But what is interesting is that Rand's greatest teacher, Aristotle, defined love the same way the Christians do, "...wishing for him what you believe to be good things, not for your own sake but for his, and being inclined, so far as you can, to bring these things about" (Rhetoric, II, 4). Indeed, this is St. Thomas' source. It is also interesting that, when talking about the efficacy of Christ's passion, St. Thomas notes that the efficacy comes primarily from Christ's love rather than his suffering, clearly indicating a difference between love and self-sacrifice.

No I say that because it is a commandment to value that which harms you. I don't think it I moral to value evil. If one values the evil, what should be one's attitude toward the good.

 

[zippy2006]

No I say that because it is a commandment to value that which harms you. I don't think it I moral to value evil. If one values the evil, what should be one's attitude toward the good.

I don't understand how "love your enemy" could mean that you must value evil, or value that which harms you.

 

[Wood man]

When I have enemies nearby, my favorite thing to do is just leave them alone and keep my distance from them, just as for instance, when there's an airplane nearby with it's engine running, you keep your distance away from the propeller.