Love of the state

[Eftsoon]

I think that for many of us our love of our state has taken root and is equal to and in some cases greater than our love for God.

For many of us love for the state is prior to love for God. Our Christianity actually grows out of a total devotion to the state.

I think that there are many of us who would die more readily for the state than for God. For others, their identity as citizens simply reaches far deeper down into their soul.

As time goes on, this is becoming more and more painfully apparent. Something has crept into the church. There is an implicit and unquestioned belief that the state is a sacred institution. As Christians we are vulnerable to the kind of monarchical thinking that politicians can leverage to manipulate. For many Christians, the state is somewhere between Earth and Heaven, between the soul and God.

I know that my post is quite likely to inflame quite a few, but I also know that it's crucial that it be said in an objective, and non-judgemental way. Hopefully this cuts it, and perhaps even generates healthy and self-critical discussion from all sides.

I'm definitely guilty of placing far too much hope in my own political heroes and heroines. There is absolutely a part of me that believes that there is a form of salvation to be obtained through political activity. For me Human Rights action is sacred. I sometimes worry that it is in competition with my allegiance to the kingdom.

This isn't a left/right thing. At the moment, sure the Christian Right is centre stage, but I wouldn't be surprised if , 50 years from now, we have a coterie of left leaning progressive Christians who are in much the same position. This splitting of the church down the centre is all political machination. It doesn't come from within.

 

[Albion]

This isn't a left/right thing.

It isn't a thing at all.

At the moment, sure Christian Nationalism is centre stage....[/quote]
In a way, that's true. However, "Christian Nationalism" isn't anything real, at least not in the USA.

It's just a slogan that one political party can throw at the other one like mud. It's a slogan, that's all, much like "insurrection," "white fragility," and "science denier."

The last thing that a concerned citizen should do is take any of that wordmongering literally. And there will be different ones next month.

 

[Eftsoon]

It isn't a thing at all.

At the moment, sure Christian Nationalism is centre stage...
In a way, that's true. However, "Christian Nationalism" isn't anything real, at least not in the USA. It's just a slogan that one political party can throw at the other one like mud. It's a slogan, that's all, like "insurrection," "white fragility," and "science denier."

This isn't really about America in particular, the phenomenon is quite widespread. It is very pronounced in America. Outsider looking in can see it quite starkly. It's quite easy to delineate the history of the Christian right. There was a marriage of church and state. Some of the fruit of that union is good, some not so much.

 

[bekkilyn]

When we have a large number of people being taught how to hate one's own country and encourages the burning and stomping on the country's flag, sitting at the national anthem, and that any form of support for the country at all is racist, transphobic, or some other such thing because every institution created within western civilization as a whole is evil, then naturally anything whatsoever positive concerning the country is going to be viewed as extreme "nationalism" by comparison.

 

[Eftsoon]

It isn't a thing at all.

At the moment, sure Christian Nationalism is centre stage....

In a way, that's true. However, "Christian Nationalism" isn't anything real, at least not in the USA.

It's just a slogan that one political party can throw at the other one like mud. It's a slogan, that's all, much like "insurrection," "white fragility," and "science denier."

The last thing that a concerned citizen should do is take any of that wordmongering literally. And there will be different ones next month.[/QUOTE]
I think we would both agree that there is much more nuance there than the media is willing to portray. People can't be categorised cleanly. If we remember that, it will help with civil dialogue.

 

[Albion]

This isn't really about America in particular, the phenomenon is quite widespread.

That's fine, but I was just saying that this terminology was decided upon prior to the time of the last election here, and it was just a gimmick. If it's different elsewhere, I'm more than willing to acknowledge that and read about it.

 

[Eftsoon]

When we have a large number of people being taught how to hate one's own country and encourages the burning and stomping on the country's flag, sitting at the national anthem, and that any form of support for the country at all is racist, transphobic, or some other such thing because every institution created within western civilization as a whole is evil, then naturally anything whatsoever positive concerning the country is going to be viewed as extreme "nationalism" by comparison.

When I look at this post, it's literally just an impenetrable wall of emotion. Thank you anyway.

 

[Eftsoon]

That's fine, but I was just saying that this terminology was decided upon prior to the time of the last election here, and it was just a gimmick. If it's different elsewhere, I'm more than willing to acknowledge that and read about it.

Well the Christian Right has been documented for decades now. Happy to alter my post however.

 

[Taodeching]

When we have a large number of people being taught how to hate one's own country and encourages the burning and stomping on the country's flag, sitting at the national anthem, and that any form of support for the country at all is racist, transphobic, or some other such thing because every institution created within western civilization as a whole is evil, then naturally anything whatsoever positive concerning the country is going to be viewed as extreme "nationalism" by comparison.

Absolutely. There is almost an agenda out there to get people to hate their country

 

[Eftsoon]

Absolutely. There is almost an agenda out there to get people to hate their country

Is it a bad thing to hold the world in contempt?

 

[bekkilyn]

When I look at this post, it's literally just an impenetrable wall of emotion. Thank you anyway.

Ah the good old "argument" that since someone disagreed, they must obviously be brimming over with emotional hysteria and can therefore be disregarded as crazy rather than presenting a valid point.

 

[Taodeching]

Is it a bad thing to hold the world in contempt?

yes

 

[Albion]

Well the Christian Right has been documented for decades now. Happy to alter my post however.

There's quite a difference between "Christian Right" and "Christian Nationalism," don't you agree?

What "Christian Right" actually IS, in operation, would be interesting to learn, though, if it's something really to be feared. Generally speaking, I like Christianity.

 

[Albion]

Absolutely. There is almost an agenda out there to get people to hate their country

There's no "almost" about it!

 

[Eftsoon]

This is exhausting, I'm not going to throw it down with you guys. I'd rather do battle with Cerberus. I'll let some more moderate voices chime in, otherwise my evening is going to be a cortisol-fuelled nightmare.

 

[public hermit]

This is exhausting, I'm not going to throw it down with you guys. I'd rather do battle with Cerberus. I'll let some more moderate voices chime in, otherwise my evening is going to be a cortisol-fuelled nightmare.

I agree with you and think Christianity, in the US anyway, is going through a kind of identity crisis. So, yeah, it's probably best to let it be. How can you reason with people who aren't sure of their own identity?

 

[Petros2015]

Well, I certainly could express my strong feelings.
But, some things are not up for discussion.
The past tense of the word "discuss" is "discussed"
Say it 3 times fast and you'll get it.

I will say this:
When the Christian Right lives by faith and not by fear again
By truth and not by lies
By love and not by hate
By humility and not by pride
It will be Christian again and right again.

 

[partinobodycular]

There's no "almost" about it!

The only "agenda" is to feed you exactly what you want. So if you wanna blame somebody look in the mirror.

 

[DamianWarS]

When we have a large number of people being taught how to hate one's own country and encourages the burning and stomping on the country's flag, sitting at the national anthem, and that any form of support for the country at all is racist, transphobic, or some other such thing because every institution created within western civilization as a whole is evil, then naturally anything whatsoever positive concerning the country is going to be viewed as extreme "nationalism" by comparison.

The demand to do those things is a brand of American culture itself and arguably a form of nationalism albiet more abstract. The banter of American faith and flag embedded and contrasted in various trending "-isms" is America. those who embrace it, knowingly or not, are embracing these emerging value systems that make up what is unique about America today.

 

[Albion]

Absolutely. There is almost an agenda out there to get people to hate their country

There's no "almost" about it!

--

The only "agenda" is to feed you exactly what you want. So if you wanna blame somebody look in the mirror.

I'm going to conclude that you must have been thinking of some other conversation when you wrote that reply, 'partinobodycular.'