Love and Self control

[k4c]

Without the Law of God there is nothing to base self control on.

Without the Law of God there is no standard bywhich to define love.

Without the Law of God there is no voice in the conscience.

Without the Law of God there is no bases for God to know us.

Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to Me in that day, `Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Do you see why Satan needs to do away with the Law of God?

 

[StormyOne]

What is the law of God? Are you suggesting that everyone who does not define the "law of God" as you do cannot exhibit self-control, has no idea what love is, has no conscience, and is not "known" by God? Conversely are you saying that those who define the law of God as you do have mastered self-control, exhibits true love, has a conscience, and is known by God?

That is an interesting limb you have climbed out on.... care to explore it?

 

[k4c]

What is the law of God? Are you suggesting that everyone who does not define the "law of God" as you do cannot exhibit self-control, has no idea what love is, has no conscience, and is not "known" by God? Conversely are you saying that those who define the law of God as you do have mastered self-control, exhibits true love, has a conscience, and is known by God?

That is an interesting limb you have climbed out on.... care to explore it?

The Law of God is the conscience.

 

[StormyOne]

The Law of God is the conscience.

You arrived at that conclusion based on? Help me understand your two statements, the first, "Without the Law of God there is no voice in the conscience." The second, " The law of God is the conscience." Is it possible that the conscience can be something else? Are we born with a conscience, or does it just appear at some point? Do children have a conscience?

 

[k4c]

You arrived at that conclusion based on? Help me understand your two statements, the first, "Without the Law of God there is no voice in the conscience." The second, " The law of God is the conscience." Is it possible that the conscience can be something else? Are we born with a conscience, or does it just appear at some point? Do children have a conscience?

How can I discuss deep eternal truths of God's word with someone who says this,

StormyOne: Since God did not write the bible nor dictate it, please resist the urge to tell me that the bible is the infallible word of God.... You may believe it is, and I accept that, however that is not my belief....

http://www.christianforums.com/t7427324-4/
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This will only lead to arguments and dead ends.

 

[StormyOne]

How can I discuss deep eternal truths of God's word with someone who says this,

http://www.christianforums.com/t7427324-4/
​

This will only lead to arguments and dead ends.

Only if you belief that the bible is infallible and inerrant... and only if you believe that the bible is the ONLY word of God... Understandable.... and unfortunate... I was hoping for something a bit more progressive....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Without the Law of God there is nothing to base self control on.

Without the Spirit, there is no self control

Without the Law of God there is no standard bywhich to define love.

The Spirit convicts with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment.

Without the Law of God there is no voice in the conscience.

The Spirit is my guide.

Without the Law of God there is no bases for God to know us.

If God is in us, He knows us.

Do you see why Satan needs to do away with the Law of God?

There is a reason that the Spirit brings life while the letters engraved on stones bring death.

This will only lead to arguments and dead ends.

What would you like to achieve? What is the end result you'd like to see?



BfA

 

[k4c]

Without the Spirit, there is no self control

The Spirit convicts with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment.

The Spirit is my guide.

If God is in us, He knows us.

There is a reason that the Spirit brings life while the letters engraved on stones bring death.

What would you like to achieve? What is the end result you'd like to see?

BfA

This all sounds good but it's not completely true.

Before the Spirit was given to the Gentiles they already had the law on their heart because we are all made in the image of God.

Romans 2:14-15 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

The Spirit will help us understand, convict and cause us to walk according to the Law.

 

[k4c]

There is an old saying...the word without the Spirit drys up and Spirit without the word blows up.

 

[AzA]

Without the Law of God there is nothing to base self control on.
Without the Law of God there is no standard bywhich to define love.
Without the Law of God there is no voice in the conscience.
Without the Law of God there is no bases for God to know us...
The Law of God is the conscience.

The Law of God = the conscience?

If that is the case, the substitutions can be made as follows:

"Without the conscience there is nothing to base self control on.
Without the conscience there is no standard by which to define love.
Without the conscience there is no voice in the conscience [??]
Without the conscience there is no basis for God to know us."

Aside from the fact that I find the third statement in the series tautological, I'd be interested in hearing more why you think these statements might be true.

For instance, what makes you think self control is dependent on conscience? My stomach always lets me know when I've eaten too much. The happy hormones in my brain speak to the muscles in my GI tract and things kinda work together for me after meals. So I am not overweight. Overindulgence in other areas also has consequences for me that I wouldn't assign to my conscience. Nor would I assume that an overweight person's conscience was at fault because they lacked "self control" with any given food or drink. And yet when the Bible speaks of self control, these some of the issues that it refers to.

And I'm interested in why you think the conscience is God's only portal for knowledge of us; I rather understand and experience conscience as the ego's mirror or mentor. The conscience can also both be oversensitive and not sensitive enough. Culture, experience, and dogma play a role in both extremes, and I have further found that my sense of conscience (or knowing) has evolved as I have. I'd only reluctantly conclude that God's knowledge of me has evolved. But then my premise of God is that He does not lack knowledge of me.

Without the Spirit, there is no self control.
The Spirit convicts with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment.The Spirit is my guide.
If God is in us, He knows us.

BFA, I guess I'd ask you similar questions.
Do you see the Spirit at work in your design? Or (I forget) do you consider your design to be corrupted?

 

[Restin]

Before the Spirit was given to the Gentiles they already had the law on their heart because we are all made in the image of God.

Romans 2:14-15 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

The Spirit will help us understand, convict and cause us to walk according to the Law.

The message to the Gentiles is wonderful, wonderful that is, till well-meaning Jews want to impose Jewish laws upon the Gentile world!

 

[k4c]

The message to the Gentiles is wonderful, wonderful that is, till well-meaning Jews want to impose Jewish laws upon the Gentile world!

There is only one Gospel that was first explained to Abraham and then expounded to Israel throughout Isreal's generations. The Gentiles are invited in to Gospel promise made with Israel, there is not one Gospel for the Gentiles and one for Israel.

 

[k4c]

The Law of God = the conscience?

If that is the case, the substitutions can be made as follows:

"Without the conscience there is nothing to base self control on.
Without the conscience there is no standard by which to define love.
Without the conscience there is no voice in the conscience [??]
Without the conscience there is no basis for God to know us."

Aside from the fact that I find the third statement in the series tautological, I'd be interested in hearing more why you think these statements might be true.

For instance, what makes you think self control is dependent on conscience? My stomach always lets me know when I've eaten too much. The happy hormones in my brain speak to the muscles in my GI tract and things kinda work together for me after meals. So I am not overweight. Overindulgence in other areas also has consequences for me that I wouldn't assign to my conscience. Nor would I assume that an overweight person's conscience was at fault because they lacked "self control" with any given food or drink. And yet when the Bible speaks of self control, these some of the issues that it refers to.

God calls gluttony a sin. The conviction of sin is done through the conscience. That conviction is called the still small voice that tells you to go right or left.

Isaiah 30:21 Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, "This is the way, walk in it,'' whenever you turn to the right hand or whenever you turn to the left.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Before the Spirit was given to the Gentiles

Are you suggesting that the Gentiles were, at one time, devoid of the Spirit?

they already had the law on their heart

When were Gentiles given the law? The text you cited suggests that, even during Paul's life, the Gentiles still did not have the law.

because we are all made in the image of God.

Are you suggesting that ALL who are made in the image of God have the law?

The Spirit will help us understand, convict and cause us to walk according to the Law.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. Are you suggesting that the Spirit (who is God and is the reality to which the shadow points) is limited by the law (which is the shadow that points to the reality)?


Are you suggesting that the reality is limited by the shadow?


BFA

 

[k4c]

Are you suggesting that the Gentiles were, at one time, devoid of the Spirit?


When were Gentiles given the law? The text you cited suggests that, even during Paul's life, the Gentiles still did not have the law.


Are you suggesting that ALL who are made in the image of God have the law?

Let me see if I understand you correctly. Are you suggesting that the Spirit (who is God and is the reality to which the shadow points) is limited by the law (which is the shadow that points to the reality)?


Are you suggesting that the reality is limited by the shadow?


BFA

Are you suggesting you don't know these things?

 

[Avonia]

The conviction of sin is done through the conscience.

True, but it's a bit more complex.

Conscience is programmed. The super ego judges and then sends a verdict to the ego. But the quality of this determination is dependent on the quality of the programming. I was just around a young women who would feel guilty for throwing a light switch on Sabbath. Others would not feel guilty.

And there is synderesis. The intuitive capacity to apprehend right and wrong. It's my sense that this is connected to our sense of symmetry. But often conscience overrides this intuitive capacity. The brain is louder than the heart.

And there is experience. Sowing and reaping. We learn right and wrong through causality.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Are you suggesting you don't know these things?

Just hoping to do a better job of following your thought process. That's why I asked the questions -- to better understand how you get from point A to point B.

BFA

 

[Restin]

There is only one Gospel that was first explained to Abraham and then expounded to Israel throughout Isreal's generations. The Gentiles are invited in to Gospel promise made with Israel, there is not one Gospel for the Gentiles and one for Israel.

...AMEN!

There is ONE Gospel... and... ONE LAW.....for both Jews and Gentiles!

Romans 3:27-31

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded.
By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified
by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles?
Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith,
and uncircumcision through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:
yea, we establish the law. KJV

We ESTABLISH the LAW...what LAW?...the LAW of FAITH!

 

[k4c]

...AMEN!

There is ONE Gospel... and... ONE LAW.....for both Jews and Gentiles!

You had a good run but you came to the wrong conclusion.

 

[Restin]

You had a good run but you came to the wrong conclusion.

I quoted Romans 3:27-31 ...why say you 'wrong conclusion'...?

In my earlier years I was told by my SDA teachers and pastors that Romans 3:31 established the 10 commandments. AND, I accepted this answer for MANY years (shame on me for not searching this out in the WORD for myself sooner). Even re-studying today Rom 3:27-31 and it is all about the Law of FAITH and..the LAW of FAITH is what is common between between Israel and Gentiles!

There's more...

Hebrews 4:2
2 For unto us was the gospel preached,
as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them,
not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. KJV