Love and Respect

[LinkH]

That statement was part of a much longer thought that I ended up not including because it would violate forum rules. I should have edited it out or gone in a different direction with it.

But if something is not sinful and the wife disagrees, yes I do believe she should defer to her husband if they can't come to an agreement on it. But my wife is a smart and capable woman, and if I were wanting to do something really stupid, she could be falling short in the area of being a helpmeet.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

That statement was part of a much longer thought that I ended up not including because it would violate forum rules. I should have edited it out or gone in a different direction with it.

But if something is not sinful and the wife disagrees, yes I do believe she should defer to her husband if they can't come to an agreement on it. But my wife is a smart and capable woman, and if I were wanting to do something really stupid, she could be falling short in the area of being a helpmeet.

If the wife disagrees, the whatever it is should be tabled until both parties can come to a mutual agreement. The same for if the husband disagrees.

That's showing mutual respect.

 

[ValleyGal]

That statement was part of a much longer thought that I ended up not including because it would violate forum rules. I should have edited it out or gone in a different direction with it.

But if something is not sinful and the wife disagrees, yes I do believe she should defer to her husband if they can't come to an agreement on it. But my wife is a smart and capable woman, and if I were wanting to do something really stupid, she could be falling short in the area of being a helpmeet.

Hmm... When my husband and I were out looking for a new place to buy, we saw a 4th floor condo that was facing west with a pretty view. It was in a relatively good area, but the inside was small, with dark wood flooring and very contemporary interior design. I do not like dark woods and the idea of evening sun in the window made me have a heat stroke just thinking about it. At the same time, we went and looked at a main-floor townhouse with about 50% more square footage and a lighter, 90's style/colours and imo, in a little better location.

It was a matter of different taste. Had I deferred to him, I would have been very unhappy living in the modern small condo. I expressed my concerns, he considered them, we agreed to keep looking, and he decided he would not be UNhappy living in the 90's style because we agreed that when we can afford to, we will remodel inside, but not with dark colours. We then found out that the condo's underground parking had a problem with chronic flooding due to foundation issues. Had I simply deferred to him, not only would I have been very unhappy, but we would also have added concerns and expenses over the flooding issue.

Deferring is not always the best option. Seriously. My husband did not "defer" to me, on our townhouse, either. We weighed all our options together, considered the future, and made plans together. I could just as easily have agreed that since it is not his style we should not buy this one either and just keep looking. WE decided together, and HE willingly made a compromise on some things, just as I made some.

It boils down to "pick your battles." There is a way to do conflict management that works for everyone involved.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

The last time we went househunting together...we looked at probably 20 houses. There were ones I liked that he didn't, ones that he liked that I didn't. He could have pushed the issue...but we kept going until we found one that WE liked.

This time around, I did the househunting alone. I'm very picky. I had a list of things I wanted in a house and kept going until I found the one I liked. He has not seen the inside of this house but he knows that if we reconcile he will be living here (he has a small apartment).

 

[LinkH]

I think it's normal for a husband to want to please his wife. If we had a chunk of change we wanted to spend on a house or we were out buying some nice furniture or deciding on color schemes for the house, I'd be fine with my wife picking out what she likes unless it's something I specifically don't like or it's too expensive. I wouldn't want pink walls or furniture that is way too girly. I've let my wife pick out some used yellow Chinese furniture with ornate carving that she said was very expensive there, that she got a great deal on. It was for a room I rarely used. I didn't care for it, but I wasn't going to use it or pay enough attention for it to be a big deal for me. In general, if it fulfills the function and fits our budget, unless there is something about it that I really, really don't like, I'd like her to pick out something she likes. I'd be the same way about a house. As long as it meets the functional requirements I'm looking for everyone in the family, the location is good, the price is right, I'd want something that made her happy. I think a lot of men are like this about issues like the style of a home, interior decorators, etc.

My parents built a couple of homes. My dad did a lot of the work and hired workers to help him and my mom helped, and us kids helped for the last one when we were older. My mom was concerned with ascetic stuff and having an 'island bar' in the kitchen. My dad's concerns seemed to be mainly about quality, building it solid, all that kind of stuff.

Maybe couples argue about this if the man is into interior decorating and insists on a color. One of the few episodes of 30 Rock I've seen had the Alec Baldwin character playing some kind of chess game over the color of a wall with his wife or girlfriend. But my guess is most men don't care as much about these things.

 

[LinkH]

Thank you, Hannah. Yes, IDay is a very wise man and he has not made any foolish decisions that I can think of. But even the wisest man on earth can make foolish decisions now and then. It would be foolish of him - or anyone - to start drinking again after 18 years of sobriety. It would be foolish of him to up and quit his master's degree when he is this close to graduation. IF he WERE to make those foolish decisions, I would absolutely not support it and I would not "defer" simply because he is my husband. In fact, because I love him, I will not allow "bad" into our marriage - like starting drinking again or whatever. And I will respect him enough to not allow him to give up on something he has worked so hard for like his degree. That's called boundaries, and simple "deference" is not a boundary-embracing concept. Thank God I chose my husband wisely!

IMO, as a fellow believer, a wife should encourage her fellow-believer husband not to sin and to follow the Lord, offer correction about sin, etc,. just like any other believer. But I've read elsewhere cases of 'boundaries' being used as an excuse not to follow what the Bible, teaches, too. I can also see how the concept could be used as an excuse not to help people. But lots of concepts can be abused.

Well, since Link diverted and then mentioned I am the one who went off topic (although he is the one who brought it up), I will go back and read the last page of posts. Maybe he did go somewhere else with it. We'll see if my post is still relevant. If not, I have no problem admitting it.

I was thinking of deference as more of an attitude rather than decision making. You brought up the topic of submission, so I said it was off topic. It fit well, IMO, as a transition from what we were talking about as far as our conversation goes. But I don't think the rules have changed about being able to discussion all of the wives obligations in marriage according to scripture. Men's obligations are generally still on topic according to the rules as far as I know.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

I think it's normal for a husband to want to please his wife. If we had a chunk of change we wanted to spend on a house or we were out buying some nice furniture or deciding on color schemes for the house, I'd be fine with my wife picking out what she likes unless it's something I specifically don't like or it's too expensive. I wouldn't want pink walls or furniture that is way too girly. I've let my wife pick out some used yellow Chinese furniture with ornate carving that she said was very expensive there, that she got a great deal on. It was for a room I rarely used. I didn't care for it, but I wasn't going to use it or pay enough attention for it to be a big deal for me. In general, if it fulfills the function and fits our budget, unless there is something about it that I really, really don't like, I'd like her to pick out something she likes. I'd be the same way about a house. As long as it meets the functional requirements I'm looking for everyone in the family, the location is good, the price is right, I'd want something that made her happy. I think a lot of men are like this about issues like the style of a home, interior decorators, etc.

My parents built a couple of homes. My dad did a lot of the work and hired workers to help him and my mom helped, and us kids helped for the last one when we were older. My mom was concerned with ascetic stuff and having an 'island bar' in the kitchen. My dad's concerns seemed to be mainly about quality, building it solid, all that kind of stuff.

Maybe couples argue about this if the man is into interior decorating and insists on a color. One of the few episodes of 30 Rock I've seen had the Alec Baldwin character playing some kind of chess game over the color of a wall with his wife or girlfriend. But my guess is most men don't care as much about these things.

"I'd be fine..."....that is a passive-aggressive move. In other words, "I really don't like it but I'll shut up this time". There's no room there for mutual agreement...Our househunting, furniture buying, car buying etc is by mutual agreement...there's none of this passive-aggressive rubbish. Either we both agree or it doesn't get done, bought, sold, etc. That's called mutual respect and willing to wait until there's something we can both agree on.

 

[LinkH]

Constantly – by men in the church who fixate on their wives’ submission rather than on taking responsibility to love and letting her figure out her own part.

The Bible doesn't say to let everyone else figure out their own part. It says to exhort one another daily lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. It says speaks to truth in love, not leave everyone else alone and let them figure out their own part. Husbands are told to follow the example of Christ who washed the church with the washing of the water of the word. The Corinthian wives are told if they have any questions to ask their own husbands at home, which implies that husbands are to teach their wives, at least if they have questions. It is not wrong for a husband to encourage his wife to follow the teachings of the New Testaments for wives in marriage.

If I weren't loving my wife right in some way, I'd want her to point it out, and I believe she will do so if she identifies an area. If she's not following Biblical teachings on marriage toward me, I should do the same. In other areas of our lives, we do this. With our children, we tell them if they aren't doing right. Even parents of grown children may have to do this from time to time. If you manage employees, to do your job right, you might have to point out if they aren't doing something right. Even with co-workers on the same team but on the same level, you may have to do this.

I rarely, very rarely, see any man on these forums argue against any of the Biblical instructions for husbands. I don't ever recall any man ever trying to argue that he doesn't have to love his wife like Christ loved the church. If there is a difficult marriage command, a difficult standard, what could beat that? Yet I never see men say go look at the original Greek and the word 'love' doesn't always mean love, so in this context, it doesn't really mean love, it means something else. I don't see them arguing that the definition of love, honor, etc. has been wrongly interpreted for 1950 years and that modern interpreters have really figured it out, cite some book that says that, etc.

Do men who profess faith in Christ always love their wives as Christ loved the church? No. But at least as far as the principle goes, I don't see any arguing against it.

Sharing power in marriage has a lot to do with mutual submission…Eph 5:21.

This is something that can be discussed on the submision thread, since I think it is off topic here. I think I've posted on the contextual reasons for seeing this as dilineation rather than as mutual or purely mutual.

There are men’s forums. You are not our teacher. It is not up to you to go around fixing us, telling other men’s wives that we need to respect our husbands, defer to them, etc.

ValleyGal, usually your verbage is polite and restrained. In spite of this, I find our comment here unreasonable and rude. As a Christian, I am required to speak the truth in love. I may be a bit direct at times and not afraid to point out if I disagree with someone, but I try to do this. The Bible also tells us to exhort one another.

You'll also notice the Bible puts not restrictions at all on men teaching women. Can we say the same about the opposite? You seem to be trying to teach me with comments like this.

In these forums we discuss ideas. Sometimes we disagree. I've disagreed with some of your posts and told you why. If you are going to respond with comments like this, why don't you just not engage in the conversation? I find it kind of rude. I don't want to misuse the word 'hypocritical' and use it in a kind of vernacular, unbiblical way, so I'll use 'inconsistent.' It's inconsistent of you to pontificate like you do and then get on my case for 'teaching' you when you can choose whether or not to engage in conversation. If you want to engage in conversation yourself, please don't try to shut me down with comments like this when I engage in conversation, on a thread I started, btw.

We came here to discuss a book – not the substance of the book.

I've got a question for you. Does that quote make sense to you when you read it back to yourself? I'm not seeing the difference between those two things myself.

If you want to assume you are a teacher of this kind of information, go and teach the men how to love their wives rather than preach about how women need to be respectful.

Ironically, a brother from church and I had a conversation where we encouraged each other about understanding our wives in marriage this morning. But I'm not going to talk about that topic in a discussion room full of women.

If you think it's wrong for a man to teach women to respect their husbands, might you not have a problem with the way you think about these things? Aren't you making up your own ideas about what is right and what is wrong? Paul was a man, right? Peter was a man, right? Were they wrong to write those books of the Bible?

Older women are told to teach the younger women. Paul, a man, taught older women and younger women. We know this for sure because some of those teachings were written down for us and we can read them.

It amazes me that men want the power in the marriage, yet they expect their wife to do all the adapting, which places far more marital responsibility onto the wife’s shoulders than he has. Imo, power and responsibility go together. If you want the power in your marriage, you should be the one adapting to her rather her adapting to you

Maybe you've got a different set of personal experiences that you are thinking of that I can't relate to. In my own marriage and talking with men about their marriages, us guys adapt quite a bit. It doesn't matter if we are talking about Christian men who hold to the same sort of interpretations of Ephesians 5 that have been taught for 1900 years, or the more recent teachings that emerged in the past 50 years or so, we all have to adapt.

Link, I also read parts of your post about your own marriage. Just because you and your wife went through the experiences you did, does not mean that your way is the right way.

Everyone's marriage is going to look different. There are Biblical principles, though. My own experiences taught me to pay attention to some Biblical truths that I believed in in theory. My wife and I both payed lip service to the same Biblical concepts of marriage that we still hold to today back when we were dating. But it took us a while to learn to put some of them into practice, and we are still learning and growing.

Reading the Bible, commentaries, articles, etc. all confirm beliefs I hold to about marriage and that would be enough for me. But it is nice that the Lord also spoke to my wife's heart about these same principles in the Bible when I prayed and asked Him to.

Something I learned as that as a husband, I need to be concerned with my wife's walk with the Lord, even in the areas that deal with how she relates to me as a husband. Maybe I had a type of false humility about that, or just wasn't paying enough attention. Most of her growth in this area seems to come from the Lord working on her in her relationship with God. But God also works on us through other people, including other believers, including our spouses. We both encourage one another in our walk.

It simply means that is what worked for you. My husband and I have an egalitarian marriage where power is shared and we actively seek conflict management and each other’s best interest. We value and respect each other’s opinions and mutually influence each other. We interpret the Bible to say that because Jesus has given us all authority through his Spirit, that the bride has equal authority – and neither of us abuse this honour.

I've got a more traditional interpretation of the Bible, (one consistent with sermons and commentaries going back to the days when people spoke the same language that the New Testament was written in, for e.g. parts of John Chrysostom's sermon on marriage, a Greek speaker only about 300 years removed from the language of the New Testament.) You have a more egalitarian approach. Whatever approach we take, all marriages need to have good conflict management and we need to look out for each other's best interest. In a love marriage that is more patriarchal where the husband loves his wife, he still has to make decisions in her best interest, so that can mean the same process of talking things through. The big difference people like to point out is when the couple just can't agree. But the other big difference I see is just the attitude the wife has toward her husband, and it may show up also in the husband's sense of responsibility toward his wife.

As far as the bride ahcing equal authority? You don't mean with Christ do you? I don't see that. Christ has all authority and said therefore go preach. But He still has authority. I'm guessing you mean each member of the body has equal authority? I don't have any reason to think that. I don't see where the Bible says that people are 'equal' in authority. I don't think I have the same authority to make decisions in a church as the elders of that church or a missionary who founded it for example. I don't have equal authority in another man's home. Within my home, my children don't have equal authority to me or to my wife.

Americans and some other western people's are obsessed with equality. George Orwell's Animal Farm show how silly some statements about equality can be. 'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others'-- that's a paraphrase if not an exact quote. Americans think we are all equal. But I can't play basketball like an NBA player. That's not equal. I'm not as tall as most of them either. More inequality. I'm not as good at math as this fellow grad student of mine who has a 3.9 even though he's in his second semester of econometrics courses. I'm not equal to my wife in breastfeeding or giving birth. I have no ability at all in those areas. She's not my equal in lifting heavy objects, though. The only time I can find 'equality' in the New Testament, its about churches giving excess funds to one another in Paul's second letter to the Corinthians.

We will believe the Bible and believe in the union of Christ and the church over hierarchy any day.

There is hierarchy in the relationship between Christ and the church. He is Lord. We call Him Lord. He told His disciples, "Ye call me Master and Lord and ye do well for so I am." Jesus does not call the church His 'lord.'

God called Abraham 'lord', not his lord, but Sarah's, the word 'ba'al' which translates as 'lord'/'husband.'

 

[LinkH]

I respect and reverence my Lord and Savior because of what he did for me. That, in no way, shape or form translates to my husband.

Here is something I'll just ask you to pray about: if it is the Lord's will for you to respect your husband, has Jesus done enough for you as your Lord and Savior for you to respect your husband out of respect for Jesus? Has He earned that?

 

[LinkH]

"I'd be fine..."....that is a passive-aggressive move. In other words, "I really don't like it but I'll shut up this time". There's no room there for mutual agreement...Our househunting, furniture buying, car buying etc is by mutual agreement...there's none of this passive-aggressive rubbish. Either we both agree or it doesn't get done, bought, sold, etc. That's called mutual respect and willing to wait until there's something we can both agree on.

I think you may be projecting. I don't see how my personality fits passive-aggressive at all. "I'd be fine" means I really don't care that much. Lot's of us guys don't care that much about colors of furniture, walls, china patterns, etc. Some do. Lots don't. If it's not super girly or super ugly, I don't care much about furniture, one way or the other. I mainly, care that furniture is comfortable and clean, and I care about the price. I also want something that makes my wife happy and the children's needs met.

My wife wanted the yellow furniture that I thought was a bit gaudy. But I realized that was considered fancy in her country where we were living. Other people had house furniture like that. I wasn't going to be using it unless there were guests. She said it was a good deal and we could get our money back out of it or more. I think we used it for two years and then got the same money out of it that we put in. I wasn't bitter with her about the furniture.

If she waited around for me to find a piece of furniture in Indonesia whose looks I was thrilled about, we'd have sat on the floor for two years. I just don't care that much

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Here is something I'll just ask you to pray about: if it is the Lord's will for you to respect your husband, has Jesus done enough for you as your Lord and Savior for you to respect your husband out of respect for Jesus? Has He earned that?

I fail to see the equality here. My Lord died for me. My husband wrecked my house for me...now...you tell me which one is worthy of respect.

Once again...my respect for my Lord was also earned. He died for me. That gives me reason to love and respect him. My husband trashed my house. That gives me no reason to love or respect him. IF he chooses to straighten out and do what he needs to do to win back my trust and respect then he will get it. He does not get automatically because I am "Mrs. RPD". Sorry dude...nope.

 

[LinkH]

A woman's respect for her husband is conditional on his love for her, just like as a church, we love him because he first loved us.

Ephesians 5:33 says,
33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.(NIV))

If the husband falls short in his love, this verse still tells wives to respect their husbands. If a wife falls short in her respect, the verse still tells husbands to love their wives as they love themselves.

Paul tells wives to respect their husbands. I Peter 3's instructions are for wives whose husbands don't obey the word, also, not only for wives with perfect husbands who are just like Jesus.

If a woman's husband is not as good as Jesus, she still has to do what God wants wives to do.

 

[LinkH]

Once again...my respect for my Lord was also earned. He died for me. That gives me reason to love and respect him.

And were you such a nice, sinless person for Jesus to die for you like that? Or did He love you even though you were sinful like the rest of us? We were all sinners. While we were yet sinners He died for us. Even though we did not deserve it He loved us. He also gave us an example.

In the sermon on the mount, Jesus said that if ye love them that love you, what reward to you have? Even the sinners do that. Jesus taught us to love our enemies.

That love doesn't have to be earned does it? At least, the person receiving the love doesn't have to earn it. We can say God earned it by creating us, or that Christ earned it through His role in creation and by dying on the cross for our sins. Christ 'earned it' for us to love other people. We might say He earned our obedience to His command to love our neighbor. But He didn't have to die to earn it. God is the Creator and we owe Him anyway.

Didn't Christ earn it that you respect your husband the way God has revealed that you should, so that you do your part in demonstrating your part of the relationship between Christ and the church? A wife who does her part in the marriage may win her husband who does not obey the word (I Peter 3, starting with verse 2). That's actually very encouraging.

My husband trashed my house. That gives me no reason to love or respect him. IF he chooses to straighten out and do what he needs to do to win back my trust and respect then he will get it. He does not get automatically because I am "Mrs. RPD". Sorry dude...nope.

This is one of the reasons why I think 'respect' is an unfortunate translation for the word in some ways because people always hear that respect is earned. That's a theme we hear a lot in our culture, respect is earned. And in the midst of that, we have children who don't respect parents, don't respect their elders, don't respect their teachers, adults who don't respect government officials or police officers, and a culture of disrespect. We sit around waiting for other people to meet our standards to 'earn respect' that we either just make up in our own minds, or that we have not even set any standards for.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Link, I am tired of going round and round with you, so I'll say this as plainly as I can. Your way that you promote as "biblical" is not the only way to negotiate marriage. Not to mention, it is not an issue that has any bearing on salvation. So...with that in mind, I'll leave you to your ideas and happily stay with mine.

 

[LinkH]

Link, I am tired of going round and round with you, so I'll say this as plainly as I can. Your way that you promote as "biblical" is not the only way to negotiate marriage. Not to mention, it is not an issue that has any bearing on salvation. So...with that in mind, I'll leave you to your ideas and happily stay with mine.

A good tree bears good fruit and an evil tree bears evil fruit. The kind of fruit we bear is related to our salvation in that way.

As Christians, only being concerned with what will get us saved can be a selfish way of looking at it. We should be seeking to live our lives in a way that pleases God and glorifies him.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

A good tree bears good fruit and an evil tree bears evil fruit. The kind of fruit we bear is related to our salvation in that way.

As Christians, only being concerned with what will get us saved can be a selfish way of looking at it. We should be seeking to live our lives in a way that pleases God and glorifies him.

Well...pardon me if I don't believe that God's will for me is to let a man treat me like rubbish and still sit there and "respect" him...it may not be what you believe and I still don't see where it becomes a salvational issue...OK? Now, I am done with this conversation because you can't seem to understand that it doesn't matter if he's "Mr. RPD"...if he treats me like something the dogs left in the back yard, he will not get my respect in any way, shape or form. OK?

 

[LinkH]

Well...pardon me if I don't believe that God's will for me is to let a man treat me like rubbish and still sit there and "respect" him...it may not be what you believe and I still don't see where it becomes a salvational issue...OK?

Take a look at the sermon on the mount, and notice what he says at the end of Matthew 7 about doing the will of the Father. Jesus taught people to turn the other cheek, to love our enemies. He also taught us to forgive that we may be forgiven. It is a blessing for us actually to do as Christ said and also to be conformed to His image. Jesus died on a cross. "When He was reviled, He reviled not again." Hollywood movies teach us that the hero is supposed to get back at our enemy, to crack his neck with some kind of funky full nelson. If you are to love your enemies, how much more should you love your husband.

I believe a husband should treat his wife well, to love his wife. I'm sorry you are having these difficulties with your husband. I really do hope he repents. If you are going forward with your marriage, treating your husband with respect is going to help you with that, and it may help put him in a frame of mind to treat you better.

Now, I am done with this conversation because you can't seem to understand that it doesn't matter if he's "Mr. RPD"...if he treats me like something the dogs left in the back yard, he will not get my respect in any way, shape or form. OK?

You can be done with this conversation any time you choose.

 

[mkgal1]

Feminists and egalitarians now push the idea that men should be 'nice' and share power in the marriage in an egalitarian manner. I know there is at least one marriage book out there that suggests that some divorces are caused by men being too 'beta.' He doesn't exercise leadership in the home, doesn't have any kind of plan, and constantly defers to her, and he tries to be nice and accommodating, maybe even letting his wife walk all over him if she's ever unreasonable. She has difficulty respecting him. He becomes boring to her. They end up getting a divorce, not because he's not nice and kind enough, but because he's conformed too much to egalitarian and feminists expectations for a man in marriage. She can't handle a man not acting like a man and being put in an unnatural role.

I can't tell for sure, but---the way this post is written--- it seems as if you're equating being egalitarian with the man being a door mat. Does that mean that the reverse is true, when it's a traditional marriage (with the woman being the door mat)? If a person is getting run over or overlooked--and is unable to freely share (and have that influence the other) their thoughts, opinions, emotions--that's not a healthy marriage. There are ways to have a healthy traditional marriage.....but one person being overlooked is not a part of that.

An egalitarian marriage simply means that each are actively a part of the marriage. It's not good for man to be alone (God said that....remember?) and anytime a person has become a door mat (or their opinions don't truly influence decisions, behaviors or goals) then I don't care what you label the marriage as---it's not honoring God (the one person is being rendered as ineffective....and the other is basically "alone"....just where God said it's not good for them to be.)

 

[ValleyGal]

Egalitarian:
adjective 1. asserting, resulting from, or characterized by belief in the equality of all people, especially in political, economic, or social life.

noun 2. a person who adheres to egalitarian beliefs.



Imo, this also implies that each has an equal say in decision-making and every other aspect of marriage, or as otherwise agreed on (such as whether the wife works outside the home, for example, but that has to be HER decision).

 

[mkgal1]

Ephesians 5:33 says,
33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.(NIV))

If the husband falls short in his love, this verse still tells wives to respect their husbands. If a wife falls short in her respect, the verse still tells husbands to love their wives as they love themselves.

Paul tells wives to respect their husbands. I Peter 3's instructions are for wives whose husbands don't obey the word, also, not only for wives with perfect husbands who are just like Jesus.

If a woman's husband is not as good as Jesus, she still has to do what God wants wives to do.

I've always found this to be conflating two different topics. Not being a Christ believer doesn't equate with being a person that's difficult to respect or someone that's unloving.