plmarquette
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Were not David Koresh , and Jim Jones ... preachers , christians , independant false prophets .... know the book , out of the mouth of 2-3 witnesses , in love , your greatest defense ...Russebby said:
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Looking into the shadows of the history of Christianity
- Thread starter xtxArchxAngelxtx
- Start date
Correction
John 1:14 "But as many as received Him (Jesus) to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believed on his name.
The Jews were God's chosen people but they rejected the fulfilment of their covenant. Only those who recieve Jesus are God's people along with all the Gentiles that recieve Jesus. Of course God loves them even if they don't accept Jesus, and he will judge those that persecute them as history has shown. But they still don't get the privilige of being God's people unless they accept Jesus.
unfortunately yes
there you have it on page 2
Fact
since the First World War the majority of those killed in wars have been non combatants
I admit it proudly. I've seen enough of what that stuff does to people. Training to kill is not natural, and I've proudly turned down the offer for such training on more than one occasion and from more than one military entity.
Fair enough
Complicated yes, and your point is? This makes violence acceptable? Were not Americans the ones who started this fight for land and power? Or are you going to tell me that the story America starting the war was also a product of this media in a chaotic situation?
you know, the usual pictures of all the people that "lose" in a war.
exactly! But isn't peace is a pretty picture
God bless you! that's my mentality too.
But here is where our ways part
Now when most Americans talk like this, they mean killing people. Not winning or defeating them with the Word of God, love and prayer.
Well I hope you minister well
I am currently entrenched in the field of Mexico where I've been for three years. I've asked the Lord about going other places but He says His will is for Me to be here now.
Reports coming out of there have said otherwise. Although I am sure there must be a few good samples of Christians amongst those Americans over there.
well, all those minus the war part and our God is usually the same even if they have no clue who He is.
I make my judgments based on the words of Jesus. And if you want to argue with me about the righteousness of yourself your cause and your fellow soldiers, then I suggest you pick up your sword (the Word) and try to fight me Mr. Chaplains assistant. Or you can realize that the truth hurts and maybe what I'm saying is true and therefore hurts. Study the Bible man. I'll help you if you want it. And then I suggest that as a Christian, you get out there wherever you are (you don't have to wait to get sent to Iraq) and preach Jesus! Preach Christianity! Not Americanism! The world is sick of that and they don't need it, it is at variation with the ways of God!
But let me warn you, preaching Jesus and the Bible will not make you popular, prepare to be reviled and persecuted but be glad when that happens because
"all that will live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution"!
And
"blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against your falesly for My sake"
That happens to me a lot but it is more than made up for when I meet people who recieve and believe the words of Jesus and accept Him as their saviour and repent of their sins be it sodomy, dishonesty or what have you.
Ok I'm getting off the subject and carried away by my passions and so here I will
Stop
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Douger said:
"John 1:14 "But as many as received Him (Jesus) to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believed on his name.
The Jews were God's chosen people but they rejected the fulfilment of their covenant. Only those who recieve Jesus are God's people along with all the Gentiles that recieve Jesus. Of course God loves them even if they don't accept Jesus, and he will judge those that persecute them as history has shown. But they still don't get the privilige of being God's people unless they accept Jesus."
That may be, but the jews are STILL his chosen.
"unfortunately yes
there you have it on page 2"
Ignorance... Yes, and entire relgion through many centuries, but is that stil "all christians" ? I think not.
"since the First World War the majority of those killed in wars have been non combatants"
ever wonder why? It's not difficult.
"I admit it proudly. I've seen enough of what that stuff does to people. Training to kill is not natural, and I've proudly turned down the offer for such training on more than one occasion and from more than one military entity."
Good, the militarity is not for everyone. But there will come a time when america will fall. Will you chose to fight for it and your family? (if there is a fight).
"Complicated yes, and your point is? This makes violence acceptable? Were not Americans the ones who started this fight for land and power? Or are you going to tell me that the story America starting the war was also a product of this media in a chaotic situation?
you know, the usual pictures of all the people that "lose" in a war."
No, persecution started this war. And it is not for land. And yes it is for power, power of freedom.
"Now when most Americans talk like this, they mean killing people. Not winning or defeating them with the Word of God, love and prayer."
Tell that to joshua.
"Well I hope you minister well "
I am not the best... but I do what God grants me to do.
"I am currently entrenched in the field of Mexico where I've been for three years. I've asked the Lord about going other places but He says His will is for Me to be here now."
Awesome to hear.
"well, all those minus the war part and our God is usually the same even if they have no clue who He is."
Except that God is Allah to them. See the problem?
"I make my judgments based on the words of Jesus. And if you want to argue with me about the righteousness of yourself your cause and your fellow soldiers, then I suggest you pick up your sword (the Word) and try to fight me Mr. Chaplains assistant."
I make my judgements based on the word of God as well. As far as getting into a sword fight, (and yes, I know what my sword is, spiritual warfare is my strength) it seems rather vain to me. Yes, the word of God is ment to cut through lies and deceptions, but not to prove points.
"Or you can realize that the truth hurts and maybe what I'm saying is true and therefore hurts. Study the Bible man. I'll help you if you want it. And then I suggest that as a Christian, you get out there wherever you are (you don't have to wait to get sent to Iraq) and preach Jesus! Preach Christianity! Not Americanism!"
heres some background info on me:
I am a camp counselor for 2 summers and interact with children all summer long.
I am willing to take a lead of faith that I know about as much as the bible as you, but I also know it well enough that "knowing the bible" gets you know where without the Godly wisdom or application.
In processing before we went to boot camp, another chaplain assistant and myself led a bible study. 40 soon to be soldiers joined us. over a dozen rededicated their lives or were saved that night. Grown men, crying with broken hearts. Amazing.
God has me here for a reason. This is just one of them.
I am very much a patriot, but I am a christian first and for most. Yes, our country is jacked up, i know this. Nothing is perfect, but we have a lot of things going good for us, especially our military.
"preaching Jesus and the Bible will not make you popular, prepare to be reviled and persecuted but be glad when that happens because
"all that will live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution"! "
Basic christian fundamentals. I knew when I was saved that I may one day have to die for my faith, as Jesus said "take up your cross and follow me."
We are on the same page here.
Peace
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a bit of scriptural backround on my stance
some good chapters on the subject are Mark 12 and Mathew 22
Word has it that now we are to Love our enemies and do good to those that hate us. Something the military certainly does not do. An English pastor of the 19th century once said that the better a soldier a man is the worse of a Christian he is. Now I don't quote that to make a jab at you only to explain my view on the military, that being said I hope your a lousy soldier.
If America is worthy then the Lord will fight for it, and we will hold our peace.
If not worthy, then the wicked shall be turned unto hell and all the nations that forget God.
more recently
John 18 verse 36
good good
some good chapters on the subject are Mark 12 and Mathew 22
Word has it that now we are to Love our enemies and do good to those that hate us. Something the military certainly does not do. An English pastor of the 19th century once said that the better a soldier a man is the worse of a Christian he is. Now I don't quote that to make a jab at you only to explain my view on the military, that being said I hope your a lousy soldier.
If America is worthy then the Lord will fight for it, and we will hold our peace.
If not worthy, then the wicked shall be turned unto hell and all the nations that forget God.
James 4 verse 1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? Come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
God's plan for that time
more recently
John 18 verse 36
that's wonderful, God bless you! (high five)
good good
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Christianity more or less went down the drain when the Apsotles died, however that doesn't mean they were the only ones that committed crime during the dark ages.xtxArchxAngelxtx said:
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I am always curious at the habit of people of blaming the October Revolution on Jewish people. Among the principal conspirators, who but Trotsky was a Jew? Lenin was a genetic mix like most people from his region of birth, Kalmuk and/or Tatar (depending on whom you ask), Russian, Germanic and Hebrew all in small portions. The parts of his family with Hebrew blood were religiously Christians. He was a baptised Orthodox. And I still cannot see the Revolution (in its infancy stage) as an evil. Misguided, perhaps, but the Empire was corrupt and dying. I will not romanticise the Tsars. It is a deep shame that the Bolsheviks later turned from a path that could have led to a true revitalization. Of course, they were helped in this falling off the path by the events surrounding them. Yes, there were tragedies but one can hardly blame it on Jews. It's just an excuse to demonize the Jewish.Douger said:
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Common misconception, or perhaps exaggeration, I might say. Please do read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibilitylismore said:
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T
Thursday
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Ohhh no, thats not what infallibility means lismore! Papal infallibility means that when the pope makes a specific sort of declaration on matters of faith and morals, he is free from error. We believe in this situation he is kept free from doctrinal and moral error by the Holy Spirit (Matt. 16:18). A pope can be a murderer, an adulterer, he may even be on his way to hell, but by virtue of the office of Peter, we believe certain declarations are guaranteed to be free from error.lismore said:
When we are talking politics, or science etc, papal infallibility does not apply.
Impeccability = being incapable of sin, and no one has ever claimed the pope to have this characteristic!!!
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It is very hard to respond to general "catch-all" lists such as that in the OP - especially when they make vague generalised claims with no attribution or reference to any reputable academic citation.
Some of the things in the list are true, some are false and some are half-truths, spun to look as bad as possible for the church.
So why respond to this sort of list?
Largely because in general terms it presents a misleading and one-sided picture that is not the whole truth, and then becomes generally accepted, and used as a stick to bash Christians with. So lets have a look at some of the claims.
No reference is given. But I have little doubt things like this were said, following the mutual antagonism between Jews who rejected Christ and those Jews and gentiles who accepted Him. However the references are to God's spiritual punishment of those who reject Christ. No physical persecution was intended.
Hardly a typical Christian.
This was not an official part of the crusade is is implied here. Ruffian groups did attack jews in the rhine Valley, however local bishops tried to give them shelter and protection from unofficial mobs. This was not orchestrated as part of the crusade as is often implied, but local mob xenophobia.
This was part of the general massacre of non-Christians in Jerusalem after the conquest. Yes. It was a terrible act, but was considered part of what was expected to happen at the time, if a city was stormed with significant loss of life to the attackers. If a city surrendered without having to be stormed, the inhabitants were usually spared. If a city refused to surrender and so caused loss of life to the attackers, the inhabitants were held responsible and often slaughtered. Many more Christians were actually slaughtered in this way during the Crusades than either moslems or Jews.
http://www.dailycatholic.org/history/11ecume2.htm
26. Jews and Saracens are not to be allowed to have christian servants in their houses, either under pretence of nourishing their children or for service or any other reason. Let those be excommunicated who presume to live with them. We declare that the evidence of Christians is to be accepted against Jews in every case, since Jews employ their own witnesses against Christians, and that those who prefer Jews to Christians in this matter are to lie under anathema, since Jews ought to be subject to Christians and to be supported by them on grounds of humanity alone.
This is nothing to do with jews being made slaves. It is about preferring the witness of Christians in Court cases!
Actually at this period Jews were under the protection of the Pope.
Once again we are looking at mob violence (such as occurs at regular intervals, unfortunately, across the globe), and mob violence in the pressing conditions of the Black death, when half the population died in a few months, and people were looking round for scapegoats. Again the accusation implies some sort of official orchestration or sanction from the Church, which was not present.
It must also be remembered that diaspora Jews habitually cursed their Christian neighbours in their religious ceremonies. And though this was done in secret, it would inevitably have got out. people dying inexplicably in their thousands, hearing tha their neighbours had cursed them were likely to react violently and irrationally.
The Spanish Inquisition was very vicious in its early days, but was primarily a tool of the Spanish government, and its excesses were condemned by the Popes Sixtus IV and Innocent VIII.
Some of the things in the list are true, some are false and some are half-truths, spun to look as bad as possible for the church.
So why respond to this sort of list?
Largely because in general terms it presents a misleading and one-sided picture that is not the whole truth, and then becomes generally accepted, and used as a stick to bash Christians with. So lets have a look at some of the claims.
Jews had actually been barred from Jerusalem and all of Palestine by the pagan Emperors ever since the crushing of the 2nd Jewish revolt after 120 ADxtxArchxAngelxtx said:
No reference is given. But I have little doubt things like this were said, following the mutual antagonism between Jews who rejected Christ and those Jews and gentiles who accepted Him. However the references are to God's spiritual punishment of those who reject Christ. No physical persecution was intended.
The Visigoths did persecute Jews in Spain. I have to concede that one. However the Christians were soon made 3rd class citizens in turn, after the Muslim conquest.
Leo III was a Byzantine Emperor who faced attack from the expanding Muslim armies that were conquering much of the world. he did order the conversion of Jews, Montanists, and others he suspected of weakening the Empire against Muslim assault. However he was hardly a mainstream son of the Church, since he also ordered the start of the Iconoclastic heresy, using the military to crush all who did not participate in the wholesale destruction of images. Was at war with the Pope.
Hardly a typical Christian.
This was not an official part of the crusade is is implied here. Ruffian groups did attack jews in the rhine Valley, however local bishops tried to give them shelter and protection from unofficial mobs. This was not orchestrated as part of the crusade as is often implied, but local mob xenophobia.
This was part of the general massacre of non-Christians in Jerusalem after the conquest. Yes. It was a terrible act, but was considered part of what was expected to happen at the time, if a city was stormed with significant loss of life to the attackers. If a city surrendered without having to be stormed, the inhabitants were usually spared. If a city refused to surrender and so caused loss of life to the attackers, the inhabitants were held responsible and often slaughtered. Many more Christians were actually slaughtered in this way during the Crusades than either moslems or Jews.
which monk? What authority did he have?
Actually this is a total misreading of the Canon, complete wording available at
http://www.dailycatholic.org/history/11ecume2.htm
26. Jews and Saracens are not to be allowed to have christian servants in their houses, either under pretence of nourishing their children or for service or any other reason. Let those be excommunicated who presume to live with them. We declare that the evidence of Christians is to be accepted against Jews in every case, since Jews employ their own witnesses against Christians, and that those who prefer Jews to Christians in this matter are to lie under anathema, since Jews ought to be subject to Christians and to be supported by them on grounds of humanity alone.
This is nothing to do with jews being made slaves. It is about preferring the witness of Christians in Court cases!
Actually at this period Jews were under the protection of the Pope.
Once again we are looking at mob violence (such as occurs at regular intervals, unfortunately, across the globe), and mob violence in the pressing conditions of the Black death, when half the population died in a few months, and people were looking round for scapegoats. Again the accusation implies some sort of official orchestration or sanction from the Church, which was not present.
It must also be remembered that diaspora Jews habitually cursed their Christian neighbours in their religious ceremonies. And though this was done in secret, it would inevitably have got out. people dying inexplicably in their thousands, hearing tha their neighbours had cursed them were likely to react violently and irrationally.
The Inquisition did not actually have any authority over Jews or Muslims. It only had authority over Christians. Where it did affect jews and Muslims is where they officially converted in order to remain in Spain, and then were accused of returning to their old Faith.
The Spanish Inquisition was very vicious in its early days, but was primarily a tool of the Spanish government, and its excesses were condemned by the Popes Sixtus IV and Innocent VIII.
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A
armyman_83
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1215: In a forgotten episode during the Crusades, the Pope urged the Christians of Europe to eradicate infidels from Europe where they could. This resulted in the "ethnic cleansing" of the Albigensians, a Manichean sect in southern France. In a ghastly show of Christian love, the Christians under papal authority slaughtered the Albigensians, and within thirty years the dirty deed was done. Never forget that genocide involves women and children
Hey these people where big time heratics(sp) , they thought that that Mary Magadanle(sp) was Jesus's harlot, they didn't believe in the Trinity and they practiced homosexualty. Sure killing them is bad but hey you have to look at the times, besides the Pope said it was ok....
Hey these people where big time heratics(sp) , they thought that that Mary Magadanle(sp) was Jesus's harlot, they didn't believe in the Trinity and they practiced homosexualty. Sure killing them is bad but hey you have to look at the times, besides the Pope said it was ok....
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armyman_83
Guest
Does not the LORD call us to bless Jersuaslem? Look in Ps.122 "pray for the peace of Jersuaslem, they shall prosper that love thee"Douger said:
Look also in Gen. 12 "Those whom bless thee I will bless, those whom curse you I will curse"
We should defend Isreal no matter what, there will never be peace there, so long as an Arab still lives within the gates of Jersuaslem. But it is our duty to pray for peace and protect the Jews and the Holy City!
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Grl4Christ987
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I think it's a real shame upon us Christians who do love the Jews and are trying to live a peaceful life. Those crusades made it ten times worse for us truly devoted to God. But if we didn't have to have a struggle then no one's really a True Christian.
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Nice looking family Swart,you must be proud.Swart said:
Look I suppose you might have been laghing at me about the 666 thing and that's understandable.The 666 is Man's system,It belongs to a man who says that he is G-d and his system is Babylon.The bible has it's own system too,instead of the solar calender it's holy days are on the lunar calender.
If a person believes Yeshua died for his sins he would say{I have a Passover lamb}.If a person believed that one day a holy spirit would come to him and his family he would believe in the feast of weeks.If a person believed that Christ would be born,die and then come back again he would believe in Sukkot called the feast of lights,the feast of nations and of Tabernacles.Sukkot is coming just like Zech states that in our future the entire world will come up to Sukkot every year.Everyone who is left of the nations.This is the system and the way we are to raise our children.
If a person believed that Nimrod the builder of Babylon died for their sins they weeped for the coming of Tammuz{Easter}.If a person celebrated Nimrod's birth they would celebrate the sun on Christmass because it's the birth of the sun.If a person had 1 day a week to celebrate Tammuz he would choose Sunday.Nimrod died and was resurected as Tammuz millinia before Yeshuah came and the entire world celebrates his birth and resurection and his Sabbath's.Just because everyone changed his name to Jesus doesn't change the festivals being of Tammuz.They are still the same rituals performed on the same days and they proove who everyone worships and the bible states very boldly how you get the mark of G-d on your foreheard and that is by performing his feasts and rituals and Sabbath's about him.The bible states that G-d will gather those who mourn for his feasts not being done and those who mourn about pagan festivals being done in God's own temple.That's what Ezekiel 8 talks about when people are marked on their forehead with G-d's system because they mourn about paganism in the temple.Exodus 13,do my Passover and it will be a sign on ur forehead and right hand.Exodus 31,do my Sabbath and it will be a sign{covenant} between me and you.A sign that G-d knows us and we know him.Hashem gave us Pesach when he killed the first Passover lamb when he clothed Adam and Eve but they chose fig leaves.In Ezekiel 8 people die as the last sacrifice on the 6th day,6th month,6th year,I don't think that's a coincadince.I don't think it's coincadince that all the world still carry on the ritual's of Tammuz and Tammuz is named in Ezekiel 8.Tammuz is Babylon.The mark of the beast is Babylon as Reveleations clearly states.Babylon or Jerusalem is the question.Should we teach our children the rituals of Babylon or the rituals of Jerusalem? It's for the children.I always feel guilty cause I raised my kids doing Pagan days and now I can't break them from it.
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Do you know that or have you been told by someone to think that?
GOD IS NOT A RESPECTOR OF PERSONS!
look dude, read your Bible.
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Lifesaver
Fides et Ratio
Milla, the Russian Revolution was one of the most terrible crimes of history. It was done in the name of communism, a body of doctrines which has already lured many people away from God. Unsurprisingly, in its name the revolutionaires commited unspeakable crimes against religious people, especially women.Milla said:
Worse than this, only the state of the Russia and neighbouring countries for the decades after it.
Sadly, communism is still alive in the minds of many. It is our duty as Christians to fight this evil with complete conviction.
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