Look what I found:

[AV1611VET]

Surveys of the sky over the last decade have revealed that the composition of the Universe is largely unknown to us.

SOURCE

 

[Cabal]

What about it?

 

[Tenka]

Look what I found:

 

[corvus_corax]

And your point is ...
... what?
C'mon AV be as bluntly honest as the Jesus you proclaim to try to be like.
Don't hedge
Don't wait for a response to spring some kind of trap.
Be charitable.
Or not.

Either way, your choice.

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually, Corvus, I made this thread some time ago, but I made it in General Apologetics, and now I don't have access to it.

So I hunted up the link that's in the OP and made this thread again, so I can qv people to it whenever I want to make the point that they have no right to say Heaven, or God, or Jesus, or angels, or even the Flood doesn't exist because they haven't seen the evidence.

Until they can see every cubic centimeter of this universe, and see it simultaneously, they have no right to say God doesn't exist.

 

[Cabal]

Actually, Corvus, I made this thread some time ago, but I made it in General Apologetics, and now I don't have access to it.

So I hunted up the link that's in the OP and made this thread again, so I can qv people to it whenever I want to make the point that they have no right to say Heaven, or God, or Jesus, or angels, or even the Flood doesn't exist because they haven't seen evidence for them.

Until they can see every cubic centimeter of this universe, and see it simultaneously, they have no right to say God doesn't exist.

Why? Can God be "seen?"

Why do I get the feeling this was also debunked, and debunked depressingly often back on GA....

*sigh*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy#Evidence_for_dark_energy

 

[AV1611VET]

Why? Can God be "seen?"

Actually, He cannot, but the point is that until every cubic centimeter of this universe is observed simultaneously, then, and only then, would scientists have [somewhat of] a valid claim to God's non-existence.

(It would still be a weak claim though because, as you pointed out, God cannot be found through scientific instrumentation.)

 

[Cabal]

Actually, He cannot, but the point is that until every cubic centimeter of this universe is observed simultaneously, then, and only then, would scientists have [somewhat of] a valid claim to God's non-existence.

(It would still be a weak claim though because, as you pointed out, God cannot be found through scientific instrumentation.)

Well, we're been looking in every direction for a long time now. And just because we can't classify dark energy doesn't mean it isn't there - we do see its effects though.

But this clearly isn't going to fly either like you said, so....

So I guess if God cannot be found by instrumentation why bother to post this analogy in the first place?

 

[AV1611VET]

So I guess if God cannot be found by instrumentation why bother to post this analogy in the first place?

Picture someone saying: I don't believe angels exist.

Now picture me replying: Now that's quite a statement in view of this --- 1 .

 

[Cabal]

Picture someone saying: I don't believe angels exist.

Now picture me replying: Now that's quite a statement in view of this --- 1 .

I would reply - how is there any connection between the two? Are there angels empirically floating about in dark energy clusters somewhere?

If you're going for the point of believing in the effects of God/angels validating their sources in the same way that believing in the effects of dark matter/energy validates their sources, I could begin to see somewhat of a connection - although given that the presence and effects of God/angels isn't reproducible or predictable, I wouldn't call it that strong a connection.

 

[AV1611VET]

I would reply - how is there any connection between the two? Are there angels empirically floating about in dark energy clusters somewhere?

If you're going for the point of believing in the effects of God/angels validating their sources in the same way that believing in the effects of dark matter/energy validates their sources, I could begin to see somewhat of a connection - although given that the presence and effects of God/angels isn't reproducible or predictable, I wouldn't call it that strong a connection.

The alternative ("keep looking") is worse ---

 

[Cabal]

The alternative ("keep looking") is worse ---

I don't quite follow?

 

[corvus_corax]

Until they can see every cubic centimeter of this universe, and see it simultaneously, they have no right to say God doesn't exist.

Contrariwise, you have no right to say that your deity does exist (based upon your own statements).
Yeah yeah yeah, I know, the whole "Atheists have as much faith as Christians" argument....blah blah. Don't even bother traveling that path.

 

[truthiness]

The alternative ("keep looking") is worse ---

...Why wouldn't you ALWAYS be looking? Ignorance isn't bliss just because the Matrix said it was.

 

[AV1611VET]

Contrariwise, you have no right to say that your deity does exist (based upon your own statements).

I don't --- I say He exists based on His own statements.

... for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[AV1611VET]

...Why wouldn't you ALWAYS be looking?

That was more or less a private joke, Truthiness --- in the three years I've been here, I've ran "keep looking" into the ground.

With this new thread, I'm going to switch from me saying "keep looking" to showing them where a scientist himself basically says it.

 

[truthiness]

That was more or less a private joke, Truthiness --- in the three years I've been here, I've ran "keep looking" into the ground.

Okie doke, I can only read so much post history while lurking. My bad.

 

[AV1611VET]

Okie doke, I can only read so much post history while lurking. My bad.

No problem, my friend ---

 

[plindboe]

Picture someone saying: I don't believe angels exist.

Now picture me replying: Now that's quite a statement in view of this --- 1 .

So because we don't know everything, and there's therefore a theoretical possibility that angels exist, we should believe in them? Doesn't the same line of thought work just as well with fairies?

There's a theoretical possibility that your car will blow up when you turn the ignition key. Does that mean you should believe it will blow up?

Personally I will and can not believe that my car will blow up or that angels exist until I see evidence that would support such a belief.

Peter

 

[AV1611VET]

So because we don't know everything, and there's therefore a theoretical possibility that angels exist, we should believe in them?

Either that, or you can believe in them because God documented them --- it's your call.

Personally I will and can not believe that my car will blow up or that angels exist until I see evidence that would support such a belief.

Fair enough --- don't go to the doctor if you think you have a problem, he just may generate some evidence on paper that something is there --- and you might accidentally see it.