Look at what this sheriff had to say...

[Euler]

It doesn't matter if they protest the abortion clinics or not. The Sheriff's point is valid.

The obvious answer to your question is we don't see the cops all over the place at abortion clinics in black neighborhoods. That is how we know there aren't protests there.

You didn't even read my question!

How do you know that black people don't do like Preachers Wife and find "other ways" to protest about abortion? That's her explanation for not being seen outside abortion clinics - why can it not hold for others as well?

 

[Autumnleaf]

You didn't even read my question!

How do you know that black people don't do like Preachers Wife and find "other ways" to protest about abortion? That's her explanation for not being seen outside abortion clinics - why can it not hold for others as well?

There is no other means of protest than to protest. 'Other ways', are not protest. They are whatever those ways are called.

 

[TheDag]

Except for the fact that the claim I made was supported by evidence. Didn't you bother to read the link I included before claiming that I was making stuff up?

and your claim is not supported by the article. As I said and you have chosen to ignore for some reason one example does not make it true. If you were honest you would admit that in the reverse situation you would not accept one example as evidence.

When one reads the article then we see further evidence that your claim is false. It was not the shooting that resulted in a law change but an ongoing campaign of advertising and funding by family that caused the change.

You also failed to address the fact that plenty of white people have been killed and the law has not been changed as a result. So yes I am correct in that you are making generalisations without evidence to support them and that Euler is keeping quiet on it. I assume tha reason for that is because you are on the same side of the debate as he is rather than the more sensible position of pointing out flaws in logic no matter who does it.

 

[Euler]

There is no other means of protest than to protest. 'Other ways', are not protest. They are whatever those ways are called.

What?? Look, follow the bouncing ball -

1. The OP attempts to make the case that black protestors at the 'black lives matter' protests are hypocrites because they don't also protest at abortion clinics.

2. When challenged over her position, she reveals that she doesn't protest by turning up at abortion clinics either - she says that she has "other ways" of voicing her protest over abortions.

3. I make the point that, if it's good enough for her to use the explanation that she has "other ways" of protesting abortions, why isn't it just as valid an excuse to explain why those black protestors don't turn up at abortion clinics too?

Not too hard to follow?

 

[Inkfingers]

What?? Look, follow the bouncing ball -

1. The OP attempts to make the case that black protestors at the 'black lives matter' protests are hypocrites because they don't also protest at abortion clinics.

2. When challenged over her position, she reveals that she doesn't protest by turning up at abortion clinics either - she says that she has "other ways" of voicing her protest over abortions.

3. I make the point that, if it's good enough for her to use the explanation that she has "other ways" of protesting abortions, why isn't it just as valid an excuse to explain why those black protestors don't turn up at abortion clinics too?

Not too hard to follow?

Do you genuinely believe that these "black protestors" are also protesting abortion at other times? Or are you just being awkward?

 

[Euler]

Do you genuinely believe that these "black protestors" are also protesting abortion at other times? Or are you just being awkward?

I do not know. I simply have no way of knowing what their views are about abortion. And nor do you.

Which is why I wouldn't presume to hang 'hypocrite' labels on any of them!

 

[Cearbhall]

Black Sheriff Says if Black Lives Mattered They'd Protest at Abortion Clinics | LifeNews.com

Lots of truth here.

The Black community would have even more problems right now if abortion were illegal. It's one way for black women to take control over their lives after they've received inadequate sex education in their failing schools, been unable to obtain birth control, been raped, etc.

But yes, it is definitely a problem that black women, at a higher rate than members of any other race in the US, find themselves having to make this choice. Spoiler alert: protesting at abortion clinics isn't going to help fix the actual problems or help decrease the demand for abortion among black women.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

The Black community would have even more problems right now if abortion were illegal. It's one way for black women to take control over their lives after they've received inadequate sex education in their failing schools, been unable to obtain birth control, been raped, etc.

I work to make abortions an unneeded procedure. I am not interested in making abortions illegal, because that doesn't change anything. There has to be a mindset change.

But yes, it is definitely a problem that black women, at a higher rate than members of any other race in the US, find themselves having to make this choice. Spoiler alert: protesting at abortion clinics isn't going to help fix the actual problems or help decrease the demand for abortion among black women.

Speaking up against it CAN help, though. Too often the quip is "her body, her choice" and not "what can we do to help these people get out of the situation they're in".

 

[lisah]

I work to make abortions an unneeded procedure. I am not interested in making abortions illegal, because that doesn't change anything. There has to be a mindset change.

Speaking up against it CAN help, though. Too often the quip is "her body, her choice" and not "what can we do to help these people get out of the situation they're in".

I would think that would be more effective than protests. Prevention would be the best option, so after the fact decisions don't need to be made. I often take walks in the city and every couple of weeks there are religious protesters outside the Planned Parenthood and handing out flyers.

They always freak me out and I try to avoid them.

 

[Nithavela]

I work to make abortions an unneeded procedure.

How would you accomplish that?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I would think that would be more effective than protests. Prevention would be the best option, so after the fact decisions don't need to be made. I often take walks in the city and every couple of weeks there are religious protesters outside the Planned Parenthood and handing out flyers.

They always freak me out and I try to avoid them.

There's a reason these girls walk into these clinics and ask the workers there what they should do. So...I'd prefer to not judge the ones walking in.

I once got hassled by protestors when I was going to PP. At the time, I needed medical services (normal female stuff) and PP was free, and I was pour.

It was nice getting called "Baby Murderer" and whatnot.

How would you accomplish that?

Most women that I've encountered that were thinking about abortions had several things in common, with the number one issue being financial resources. They were poor. They felt like they wouldn't be able to provide the child with what he or she needed. More than a few had friends who had recently had children and were able to purchase mountains of stuff for the children, so they felt guilty about that. I believe that agencies should be offering the necessities for free if at all possible. I lost count of the number of boxes of diapers that I gave to new mommas. When we were done with our baby bottles, I knew there was a woman at work who had just had a baby struggling with the costs, so I gave them to her. I'd like to have a center where low-cost or free baby furniture like cribs and playpens would be available. To me, if women know they have more resources, they will be more likely to decide to keep their baby rather than abort it.

Next...as I said above, I got caught by some protestors using PP. I was called a baby murderer, even though I wasn't going in for anything near an abortion. We need to change the mindset of the people that judge women who get pregnant out of wedlock. Yes, it's a sin. Yes, it's wrong. But turning our back on them because it happens is even more wrong. So, because they are ashamed to admit what has happened, they go abort the baby. This is probably the biggest hurdle to overcome.

And now I've completely derailed my entire thread.

 

[JGG]

Next...as I said above, I got caught by some protestors using PP. I was called a baby murderer, even though I wasn't going in for anything near an abortion. We need to change the mindset of the people that judge women who get pregnant out of wedlock. Yes, it's a sin. Yes, it's wrong. But turning our back on them because it happens is even more wrong. So, because they are ashamed to admit what has happened, they go abort the baby. This is probably the biggest hurdle to overcome.

Looks like it. What was it about again? Condemning black people because they don't stand outside Planned Parenthood calling people baby murderers and such?

 

[Cearbhall]

I work to make abortions an unneeded procedure.

That's wonderful. I don't see how protesting outside of clinics is part of that, though. Not saying that you do this, but you seem to be supporting it.

Speaking up against it CAN help, though. Too often the quip is "her body, her choice" and not "what can we do to help these people get out of the situation they're in".

I agree. That's very important. I can understand speaking out against it in the form of making sure that women have access to all options and don't feel like they have no other viable options, but that's still pro-choice. We don't want the default sentiment to be "Well, she could get an abortion, so there's no problem" when that might not be what she wants. I don't personally see a need to speak out against abortion itself, though. Even if there were no societal causes of abortion, such as sexual assault and inadequate education, there would still be careless women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy and other random cases where a woman decides she doesn't want to be pregnant after the fact. Really, anything that doesn't involve criminalization, coercion, or misinformation is pro-choice.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Looks like it. What was it about again? Condemning black people because they don't stand outside Planned Parenthood calling people baby murderers and such?

Hmmm...I don't recall seeing any condemnation. Could you point me to it?

I believe that leaving out abortion (and black on black crime) when using a hashtag that states that blacklivesmatter is hypocritical. That is the summation of my argument. I don't think that's condemning anyone.

That's wonderful. I don't see how protesting outside of clinics is part of that, though. Not saying that you do this, but you seem to be supporting it.

I said they should be protesting abortion clinics. I didn't say they should be out in front of them protesting and calling the women using them names.

I can see where people couldn't separate that, though.

I agree. That's very important. I can understand speaking out against it in the form of making sure that women have access to all options and don't feel like they have no other viable options, but that's still pro-choice. We don't want the default sentiment to be "Well, she could get an abortion, so there's no problem" when that might not be what she wants. I don't personally see a need to speak out against abortion itself, though. Even if there were no societal causes of abortion, such as sexual assault and inadequate education, there would still be careless women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy and other random cases where a woman decides she doesn't want to be pregnant after the fact. Really, anything that doesn't involve criminalization, coercion, or misinformation is pro-choice.

I personally speak out against it because of what I believe it to be. I also know that many people disagree with that. But it's still my belief.

I am very much pro-life, but I realize this is a pro-choice culture. I'd just like to get the women to choose life more often.

 

[Nithavela]

Many people wwho label themselves as 'pro life' are in truth 'pro birth' and couldn't care less about the baby once it is outside of it's mothers womb.

Nice to see that you are not one of those, preacherswife. I, too, wished that abortion would become a non-issue. But even if you set a 100% perfect climate for women to raise children, you'll still have some women who just don't want to raise a child, and who only got pregnant by accident.

 

[Cearbhall]

I believe that leaving out abortion (and black on black crime) when using a hashtag that states that blacklivesmatter is hypocritical. That is the summation of my argument. I don't think that's condemning anyone.

It is more than a bit condemning of the black women who have chosen abortion, since it likens their choice to the injustices that have led to this movement. It's rather like saying "You can't complain about your son getting shot by a gang or a cop if you've had an abortion or even support a woman's right to it."

I said they should be protesting abortion clinics. I didn't say they should be out in front of them protesting and calling the women using them names.

Ah, got it. Didn't catch the distinction.

 

[Strathos]

We just need to invent artificial womb technology so a fetus can grow to maturity in a tank and then be adopted.

 

[lisah]

We just need to invent artificial womb technology so a fetus can grow to maturity in a tank and then be adopted.

Or implant a fetus into a willing male body that has been made capable of carrying to term . . .

 

[GoldenBoy89]

We just need to invent artificial womb technology so a fetus can grow to maturity in a tank and then be adopted.

Wouldn't they then need artificial parent technology to raise them afterward?

 

[JGG]

Hmmm...I don't recall seeing any condemnation. Could you point me to it?

Did not say they were hypocrites?

I believe that leaving out abortion (and black on black crime) when using a hashtag that states that blacklivesmatter is hypocritical. That is the summation of my argument. I don't think that's condemning anyone.

Right. And as I pointed out earlier, you missed the point of these protests. Black lives matter as much as white lives. When black kids are being killed, nationwide, by police, without reasonable cause, and nobody is held responsible, the insinuation is that the government doesn't believe black lives matter. The protest is a matter of justice. Protesting at an abortion clinic is not.

Again, put down the FoxNews.

I said they should be protesting abortion clinics. I didn't say they should be out in front of them protesting and calling the women using them names.

I can see where people couldn't separate that, though.

Do you? Do those who protest see the difference?