Look at what this sheriff had to say...

[TheDag]

Consult any thesaurus. Alongside "condemn" you will find "critique" and "criticize".

So, even when you try to justify PW's argument semantically.......you fail.

yes but not all words that appear in a thesaurus as an alternative for a word have the exact same meaning. Lets use the word play as an example. First word that came into my head. Are you really claiming that saying I'm going to go comedy in the park means the same as I'm going to go play in the park?

 

[Euler]

yes but not all words that appear in a thesaurus as an alternative for a word have the exact same meaning. Lets use the word play as an example. First word that came into my head. Are you really claiming that saying I'm going to go comedy in the park means the same as I'm going to go play in the park?

Your problem is that the variants of 'condemn' are all very similar. They all have a connection with some form of negative appraisal - which is what she was doing, no matter how you want to dice it.

That we are now discussing word meanings in the shadow of such blatant racial stereotyping merely illustrates how vacuous the arguments of those attempting to deflect from it.

 

[JGG]

yes but not all words that appear in a thesaurus as an alternative for a word have the exact same meaning. Lets use the word play as an example. First word that came into my head. Are you really claiming that saying I'm going to go comedy in the park means the same as I'm going to go play in the park?

That's because play is both a noun and a verb. That's a unique example that is not equivelant.

crit-i-cize

[krit-uh-sahyz]

verb (used with object), criticized,
criticizing.

1. to censure or find fault with

Look! There's that word censure again. Sounds like it'd be close to a synonym, right?

 

[TheDag]

That's because play is both a noun and a verb. That's a unique example that is not equivelant.

fair point. As I said it was the first word that came into my mind and I wanted to use a word not related to the discussion.
Having said that not all the words in the list of critcise are condemning words. So the point still stands.

Look! There's that word censure again. Sounds like it'd be close to a synonym, right?

 

[Euler]

Honestly, you can tell an argument is going badly when people want to gear down to a discussion about which word is more appropriate to describe the blatant racial stereotyping that the OP presents!

Did she 'condemn'? Did she 'critique'? Did she 'censure'? Perhaps we should argue over whether or not 'criticize' should be spelt with a 'z' or an 's' !

Did she attempt to characterize an entire group, based upon race, as being at fault using flawed assumptions?

 

[KCfromNC]

Honestly, you can tell an argument is going badly when people want to gear down to a discussion about which word is more appropriate to describe the blatant racial stereotyping that the OP presents!

Or when the OP ignores a bunch of discussion and instead just reposts someone else reporting on the same story they did.

Or when people get caught up in the exact number of references you give to counter claims which have exactly zero presented for them in the first place.

I guess this is a case where neither the facts or the logic support the idea expressed in the OP, so time to retreat into meaningless semantics and hope people forget what the point was in the first place.

So yeah, let's pretend the most pressing question in this thread is obviously whether or not the original post was a moderate versus a strong disapproval of the actions of the race in question.

 

[stevevw]

People seem to forget that the OP is only relaying a news item from what a black Sheriff David Clarke has said. I dont see to many people disagreeing with him or making a big scene about what he has said. Is that because he is black and in a position to know and speak about this. From what I have seen in checking out the reactions to the Sheriffs statemnet it seems to be fairly positive. One comment sort of puts things into perspective for me.

"He has the courage to say what only a black man could get away with saying - "

Maybe some are trying to make it into some racial thing more than it should be when some are only trying to highlight a point about the issues that black people face. At least the issues are being discussed and people are thinking about Black lives and how they matter.

 

[chapmic]

People seem to forget that the OP is only relaying a news item from what a black Sheriff David Clarke has said. I dont see to many people disagreeing with him or making a big scene about what he has said. Is that because he is black and in a position to know and speak about this. From what I have seen in checking out the reactions to the Sheriffs statemnet it seems to be fairly positive. One comment sort of puts things into perspective for me.

"He has the courage to say what only a black man could get away with saying - "

Maybe some are trying to make it into some racial thing more than it should be when some are only trying to highlight a point about the issues that black people face. At least the issues are being discussed and people are thinking about Black lives and how they matter.

He did not say that because he had "courage". He said that to keep the media from focusing on the Police department and to focus on the protesters. His argument does not even make sense. Just because he is Black doesn't mean that his critique is correct, he is assuming that all the black protesters are pro-abortion and pro black on black violence. That Logic is stupid. You think an African American mother who lost her son to violence is thinking well at least the person that killed him was black so I don't have to protest. That logic is crazy. This is not an attack on you, I just want people to recognize what this sheriff doing. Just because he is black doesn't mean that he is incapable of making outlandish, absurd statements about black people.

 

[Euler]

He did not say that because he had "courage". He said that to keep the media from focusing on the Police department and to focus on the protesters. His argument does not even make sense. Just because he is Black doesn't mean that his critique is correct, he is assuming that all the black protesters are pro-abortion and pro black on black violence. That Logic is stupid. You think an African American mother who lost her son to violence is thinking well at least the person that killed him was black so I don't have to protest. That logic is crazy. This is not an attack on you, I just want people to recognize what this sheriff doing. Just because he is black doesn't mean that he is incapable of making outlandish, absurd statements about black people.

Well said.

The OP was obviously using that comment of the sheriff as a vehicle to voice her own racial stereotyping. This was confirmed by her own subsequent comments. It is beyond pathetic that others are now bending over backwards in order to either deflect from the core of her message, or trying to suggest that she was actually saying something else.

Not one word of apology from any of these people, not one word of contrition, not one word of correction. Says something, doesn't it?

 

[JGG]

People seem to forget that the OP is only relaying a news item from what a black Sheriff David Clarke has said. I dont see to many people disagreeing with him or making a big scene about what he has said. Is that because he is black and in a position to know and speak about this.

Do you think it makes a difference whether or not he is black? What special position is he in that Mark the white Mailman isn't able to make the same comment?

From what I have seen in checking out the reactions to the Sheriffs statemnet it seems to be fairly positive. One comment sort of puts things into perspective for me.

On an anti-abortion news page? Of course it's all positive.

"He has the courage to say what only a black man could get away with saying - "

This says "We wanted to say it, but it would have been racist. Now that a black man has said, it's not racist anymore."

Maybe some are trying to make it into some racial thing more than it should be when some are only trying to highlight a point about the issues that black people face. At least the issues are being discussed and people are thinking about Black lives and how they matter.

I think people are trying to attack one political issue with another.

 

[SummerMadness]

He did not say that because he had "courage". He said that to keep the media from focusing on the Police department and to focus on the protesters. His argument does not even make sense. Just because he is Black doesn't mean that his critique is correct, he is assuming that all the black protesters are pro-abortion and pro black on black violence. That Logic is stupid. You think an African American mother who lost her son to violence is thinking well at least the person that killed him was black so I don't have to protest. That logic is crazy. This is not an attack on you, I just want people to recognize what this sheriff doing. Just because he is black doesn't mean that he is incapable of making outlandish, absurd statements about black people.

In addition, just because the sheriff is black does not make what he said racist. It's the same logic being used by revisionists when they try to prop up black slave owners or blacks that support segregation. "A single black voice means it's not racist!" They claim this despite the fact that the policies and ideas target black people.

More importantly systemic/institutional racism can affect a larger population and can still have agents of that population. That's why police brutality towards young black men is a problem, regardless of the cop being white or black. Community policing is the answer, and the cops don't need to be black to do community policing.

 

[stevevw]

He did not say that because he had "courage". He said that to keep the media from focusing on the Police department and to focus on the protesters. His argument does not even make sense. Just because he is Black doesn't mean that his critique is correct, he is assuming that all the black protesters are pro-abortion and pro black on black violence. That Logic is stupid. You think an African American mother who lost her son to violence is thinking well at least the person that killed him was black so I don't have to protest. That logic is crazy. This is not an attack on you, I just want people to recognize what this sheriff doing. Just because he is black doesn't mean that he is incapable of making outlandish, absurd statements about black people.

I guess his logic was based on some stats and he knew those from working with the law. Even being pro choice abortions still matter. There are to many abortions whether its pro choice or not. Maybe he did have a vested interest to divert attention away from his police colleagues. But maybe he did so because he was standing up for them as well. Maybe he felt it unfair that the police were getting all the stick from his own people and he wanted to throw something back at them to put things into perspective. Like if you want to be so concerned about black lives then be consistent. He may have over stepped the mark but I guess he reacted to all the accusations that were being made and some were possibly unfounded. I am not over there so I dont hear all the small talk and nor have I followed this so I dont really know all the details. All I know is it can get personal and feelings can make people say things perhaps they shouldn't have. But I did a bit of searching for reactions and it seemed to be fairly positive towards Sheriff David Clarke.

 

[Euler]

Certain people are conveniently forgetting that this thread was NOT started by that sheriff. It was started by someone here with a particular agenda. That agenda is fairly obvious from post #3 onwards. It's an agenda that attempts to paint a particular picture about a particular racial group, employing accusations that are not borne out by any evidence.

But, nice try by those who'd like to deflect it to something else.

 

[stevevw]

Do you think it makes a difference whether or not he is black? What special position is he in that Mark the white Mailman isn't able to make the same comment?

I would imagine he is getting involved because 1) he is black and its about black people being treated badly with black people protesting. 2) He is a cop and the protest are against cops. I think he has much more reason to get involved than a white mail man. That doesn't mean that the mail has a right to make his view known. But the sheriff does have some things in common and probably understands the issues more than most. I dont think he is being unfair, I actually think he is making a valid point. Its probably not the right timing as this is a very emotive issue.

On an anti-abortion news page? Of course it's all positive.

I'm not sure, I just goggled the story and went into some news links and checked out the comments.

This says "We wanted to say it, but it would have been racist. Now that a black man has said, it's not racist anymore."

No its says its probably something that was needed to be said but nobody did because its a sensitive subject. To me there's no racism, but its the timing. Maybe it was the right time as it is related to what had happened. At least people are thinking now about the subject as a whole.

I think people are trying to attack one political issue with another.

You are probably right. It can become polictical. But sometimes if you want to raise an issue you have to do it that way or take advantage of the situation. I think the sheriff just felt he needed to speak up. He was probably connected to the issue more than most being a policeman and a black man. He seems like a speaker for the community. If he is a cop then he is already being a community worker in a sense. He probably sees a lot of stuff on the beat and has to deal with it. So I guess he would know more than most. Maybe he did let his personal beliefs come into it. But I think hes intentions are good.

 

[stevevw]

Like I said this topic is an emotive one and I think many people have put their point of view across. Some have taken it to places where it shouldn't go. From what I understand the OP was just about the news story and I dont think anything different was said then what the Sheriff had said. It has become a political and personal thing now and lost the original point that was being stated. The thing is I dont think the OP is saying anything different to what the Sheriff is saying yet I cant find any reaction like this towards him. Some others may have taken things to another place but that is not what the OP was about.

 

[chapmic]

Well said.

The OP was obviously using that comment of the sheriff as a vehicle to voice her own racial stereotyping. This was confirmed by her own subsequent comments. It is beyond pathetic that others are now bending over backwards in order to either deflect from the core of her message, or trying to suggest that she was actually saying something else.

Not one word of apology from any of these people, not one word of contrition, not one word of correction. Says something, doesn't it?

Yes, it does. It makes me wonder if they felt as if she was being "ganged up on" and were just trying to "defend" her point of view. But even the people who were "defending" her admitted they didn't agree with her statements. I honestly thought the stereotyping was going to be obvious to all the other posters and I thought this thread would have been closed by page 3.

 

[chapmic]

In addition, just because the sheriff is black does not make what he said racist. It's the same logic being used by revisionists when they try to prop up black slave owners or blacks that support segregation. "A single black voice means it's not racist!" They claim this despite the fact that the policies and ideas target black people.

More importantly systemic/institutional racism can affect a larger population and can still have agents of that population. That's why police brutality towards young black men is a problem, regardless of the cop being white or black. Community policing is the answer, and the cops don't need to be black to do community policing.

Yes! This is so true. It disturbs me how people can think a single person's opinion can speak for a whole race.

 

[chapmic]

I guess his logic was based on some stats and he knew those from working with the law. Even being pro choice abortions still matter. There are to many abortions whether its pro choice or not. Maybe he did have a vested interest to divert attention away from his police colleagues. But maybe he did so because he was standing up for them as well. Maybe he felt it unfair that the police were getting all the stick from his own people and he wanted to throw something back at them to put things into perspective. Like if you want to be so concerned about black lives then be consistent. He may have over stepped the mark but I guess he reacted to all the accusations that were being made and some were possibly unfounded. I am not over there so I dont hear all the small talk and nor have I followed this so I dont really know all the details. All I know is it can get personal and feelings can make people say things perhaps they shouldn't have. But I did a bit of searching for reactions and it seemed to be fairly positive towards Sheriff David Clarke.

I understand where you are coming from, but trust me his comment trying to defend his police colleagues are out of line. He could have used a better way of doing it. In my opinion, he obviously acted out of raw emotion and made a comment he shouldn't have.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Certain people are conveniently forgetting that this thread was NOT started by that sheriff. It was started by someone here with a particular agenda. That agenda is fairly obvious from post #3 onwards. It's an agenda that attempts to paint a particular picture about a particular racial group, employing accusations that are not borne out by any evidence.

But, nice try by those who'd like to deflect it to something else.

While I appreciate you trying to get inside my head, it's crowded enough.

I started this thread to say "look at what this sheriff had to say". I talked about the protestors. Now, as far as I know, those protestors aren't just black. I believe I saw some white people and some hispanic people too.

So, despite your attempt to make me out to be a racist white person with an agenda, you are WRONG. I have no agenda. I'm not racist. I do, however, call people out on their hypocrisy, and I will continue to do so, regardless of what color they are.

And because you insist upon making me out to be someone I am not, I am requesting that the thread be closed. I'm not going to give your own little soapbox to continue to belittle me.

 

[LilLamb219]

MOD HAT ON

Thread closed per OP request.

MOD HAT OFF