Long Engagement???

[tractrack-online]

Leaving aside the issue of temptation for now -

Some background. My wife and I met in college - beginning of my junior year, her sophomore year. By the end of my senior year, I knew I wanted to marry her, but she had another year of college left. In November, right after she started her senior year, I moved across the country. She was in school in South Carolina, I was in Washington state. We saw each other every couple of months. The following May, before her graduation, I called her parents and asked for their permission. When I flew out for her graduation, her dad pulled me aside and gave me my wife's great-grandmother's diamond. I returned to Seattle, had it set, and my wife came to visit me that summer. I proposed on July 2nd. She flew back home (living with her parents for a year after college while she worked), and began to plan the wedding. We were married June 16th in Virginia, where our families live.

The engagement was too long! By the time the wedding was drawing close, we were both going crazy. It should have been a quick six-months, put something together for Christmas, and been done with.

Engagements are different nowadays - they aren't a "trial period" to see if you really want to marry this person. By the time that question is asked, the ring bought, whatever - most people know the answer. Take the time to plan the wedding that will make you and your fiancee happy, then execute it. Start your life together!

I agree that a year was too long. I think the difference was that you were both out of school for a year or, in your case, 2. At that point you are just ready to settle down and I agree a shorter engagment would be in order

 

[rach]

I personally would like a short engagement for the same reasons that Dave has mentioned. I would say between 6-12 months, or the shortest amount of time to plan a wedding. I think that things are different for everybody, and there may be some people who could handle a long engagement, I just wouldn't be one of them.

 

[Lizzi4Christ]

Dave, I was talking about the sexual desire, but I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. Let me try this again.

Right now, I am pretty certain that I will marry my boyfriend, and he is as well.
I personally, not speaking for him, veiw us as engaged informally. We've talked about marriage. We've started planning it. We have a date.
So, here is what bothers me. By what you are saying, we should get married in the next year max because of sexual tempation. But that's not a good option for us now. So, we're planning for 2005 or 2006. So, what difference does it make that we're dating seriously, with the thought of marriage, or engaged with the thought of marriage? I know, I know. Dating, you can still break up. But I'm planning on marrying this man. Marriage is a serious thought in my mind, just as it would be if we were engaged. I don't see a problem with a long engagement. Yes, I might be tempted more sexually, but as someone who sees myself as semi-engaged, I don't see it as a a bad thing. I'd rather to have a long engagement as I might found out more in other aspects, rather then just sexual. Remember that with enagements, there are more involved then just sexual temptation.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Dave, I was talking about the sexual desire, but I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. Let me try this again.

Right now, I am pretty certain that I will marry my boyfriend, and he is as well.
I personally, not speaking for him, veiw us as engaged informally. We've talked about marriage. We've started planning it. We have a date.
So, here is what bothers me. By what you are saying, we should get married in the next year max because of sexual tempation. But that's not a good option for us now. So, we're planning for 2005 or 2006. So, what difference does it make that we're dating seriously, with the thought of marriage, or engaged with the thought of marriage? I know, I know. Dating, you can still break up. But I'm planning on marrying this man. Marriage is a serious thought in my mind, just as it would be if we were engaged. I don't see a problem with a long engagement. Yes, I might be tempted more sexually, but as someone who sees myself as semi-engaged, I don't see it as a a bad thing. I'd rather to have a long engagement as I might found out more in other aspects, rather then just sexual. Remember that with enagements, there are more involved then just sexual temptation.

Thanks for the clarification.

You said "that is not a good option for us right now" and I am not sure this is a wise reason to delay marriage. Being "engaged" for three years will be difficult. If you do not see this now, you will see it within a year.

I don't understand why couples talk about marriage, pick a date, name their future children, and all that, while not even being engaged! For your own protection, he ought to bring on the ring! And on your side of it, be careful because I feel like you are awakening love before its time. I udnerstand you did not ask my opinion, but I am just throwing it out there.

Regardless of what you plan in your mind, ultimately it matters what this guy decides to do. He may decide not to propose to you and move on. But to me it seems like you are not really considering sexual temptation as a real issue. Do you think you can wait THREE YEARS to be sexual with him?

 

[YouthPastor]

One reason that I think in general why long engagements are difficult (or any "long" relationship is because we have become too Physical.

We kiss, Hug, hold hands cuddle etc... at some point the "desire" to do more increases and increases thereby forcing you to "fight off" temptations.

You ever wonder why the minister says you may now kiss the bride? Is it just because she is now your wife? Or is there more to it?

 

[Lizzi4Christ]

Thanks for the clarification.

You said "that is not a good option for us right now" and I am not sure this is a wise reason to delay marriage. Being "engaged" for three years will be difficult. If you do not see this now, you will see it within a year.

I don't understand why couples talk about marriage, pick a date, name their future children, and all that, while not even being engaged! For your own protection, he ought to bring on the ring! And on your side of it, be careful because I feel like you are awakening love before its time. I udnerstand you did not ask my opinion, but I am just throwing it out there.

Regardless of what you plan in your mind, ultimately it matters what this guy decides to do. He may decide not to propose to you and move on. But to me it seems like you are not really considering sexual temptation as a real issue. Do you think you can wait THREE YEARS to be sexual with him?

Dave, why are you focusing solely on the sexual side of it? There are other factors to engagement. Where are the couple going to live? In the current state or a different one? House or apartment? Things needed to furnish that house/apartment? Are there jobs available? How far cais it from places of employment? Is it a temporary place or one where you want to raise your kids? Is the nieghbor hood a good one? Are the schools good? What about the wedding itself? Who's going to be involved? How much for attire (wedding dress, tux, bridesmaid etc)? Who's going to pay for what? Where's it's going to be? Who's going to perform the ceremony? Then there's the honeymoon. Where do we want to go? Can we afford it? How long do we want to be gone? Do we even want it now, or maybe later? Can we get time off of work to go?

I don't want to plan that all in 6 months. With my family and my circumstances, I would probably have a nervous breakdown trying to do that in 6 months. Could I plan all that in a year? More likely.

Sexual temptation is a serious issue. I don't deny that. If I gave that impression, I'm sorry. Is it hard to avoid it? You betcha. But what about all the other factors?

Nathan and I talked about this last night because of this thread. He told me that he no longer thinks of us dating, but as courting, because we are together with the idea of marriage. Not just thought, but idea. It's not just a thought anymore, that is where we are headed. He agrees with me that a longer engagement would be better for us because of our circumstances.

If you would like to say that I am awaking love before it's time, that's your right. I disagree, because you don't know the circumstances surrounding my relationship. Our relationship is taking place over 500 miles. When we do get together, we have very strong sexual urges. And we try to avoid them. I won't lie, things have gotten alittle out of hand, but we've been able to step away from it. Do I think we can in the future? Yes, I can. Why?

I could never have sex with Nathan before marriage because of my past. I'm a plus sized girl who has been made fun of since I started school. I have had people stomp their feet when I walk past, I have heard "Elizabeth the Elephant" more times then I can count. I have had sticks thrown in my eyes. I grew up with the "I'll be your friend, just don't tell anyone about it". I hid under a wooden stage on the playground to avoi being made fun of. I was told I was so fat and ugly, my own parents didn't even want me (I gerw up with my grandparents). I have hated the way I look. I've compared myself with every girl I have ever seen and have envied them. I started to skip meals in order to lose weight. Up until just a few weeks ago, I dispised the way I looked. I don't hate myself anymore. But I am still too self consious to let anyone see me naked. Even Nathan. With that past, I also have a very hard time with trusting people. I'm terrified that the people I love, will leave me. The only one who can see me naked, is the one who'll put a ring on my finger before a pastor and a congergation because that way I know I can trust him, I know his commitment and I know I can give him something that's extreamly special to me.

So, what was the point of this long thing?
1. THere are other factors to consider about a long engagement then just sexual tempation.
2. It depends on couple to couple. What their weaknesses are, their streangths, their needs, their background. You can't classify it either good or bad in general. It's something that depends from couple to couple.

 

[Hewitt]

Like Lizzi said, it depends on the people. There just isn't a right or wrong answer to this question that can apply to everyone.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Dave, why are you focusing solely on the sexual side of it? There are other factors to engagement. Where are the couple going to live? In the current state or a different one? House or apartment? Things needed to furnish that house/apartment? Are there jobs available? How far cais it from places of employment? Is it a temporary place or one where you want to raise your kids? Is the nieghbor hood a good one? Are the schools good? What about the wedding itself? Who's going to be involved? How much for attire (wedding dress, tux, bridesmaid etc)? Who's going to pay for what? Where's it's going to be? Who's going to perform the ceremony? Then there's the honeymoon. Where do we want to go? Can we afford it? How long do we want to be gone? Do we even want it now, or maybe later? Can we get time off of work to go?

I don't want to plan that all in 6 months. With my family and my circumstances, I would probably have a nervous breakdown trying to do that in 6 months. Could I plan all that in a year? More likely.

Sexual temptation is a serious issue. I don't deny that. If I gave that impression, I'm sorry. Is it hard to avoid it? You betcha. But what about all the other factors?

Nathan and I talked about this last night because of this thread. He told me that he no longer thinks of us dating, but as courting, because we are together with the idea of marriage. Not just thought, but idea. It's not just a thought anymore, that is where we are headed. He agrees with me that a longer engagement would be better for us because of our circumstances.

If you would like to say that I am awaking love before it's time, that's your right. I disagree, because you don't know the circumstances surrounding my relationship. Our relationship is taking place over 500 miles. When we do get together, we have very strong sexual urges. And we try to avoid them. I won't lie, things have gotten alittle out of hand, but we've been able to step away from it. Do I think we can in the future? Yes, I can. Why?

I could never have sex with Nathan before marriage because of my past. I'm a plus sized girl who has been made fun of since I started school. I have had people stomp their feet when I walk past, I have heard "Elizabeth the Elephant" more times then I can count. I have had sticks thrown in my eyes. I grew up with the "I'll be your friend, just don't tell anyone about it". I hid under a wooden stage on the playground to avoi being made fun of. I was told I was so fat and ugly, my own parents didn't even want me (I gerw up with my grandparents). I have hated the way I look. I've compared myself with every girl I have ever seen and have envied them. I started to skip meals in order to lose weight. Up until just a few weeks ago, I dispised the way I looked. I don't hate myself anymore. But I am still too self consious to let anyone see me naked. Even Nathan. With that past, I also have a very hard time with trusting people. I'm terrified that the people I love, will leave me. The only one who can see me naked, is the one who'll put a ring on my finger before a pastor and a congergation because that way I know I can trust him, I know his commitment and I know I can give him something that's extreamly special to me.

So, what was the point of this long thing?
1. THere are other factors to consider about a long engagement then just sexual tempation.
2. It depends on couple to couple. What their weaknesses are, their streangths, their needs, their background. You can't classify it either good or bad in general. It's something that depends from couple to couple.

Wedding planning issues are just that, wedding planning. What I am talking about is honoring God with your body. I am not talking about tasks.

My issue with long engagements is because they typically lead to sexual immorality. I would say the vast majority of long engagements lead to sexual immorality.

I didn't know you had a long distance relationship, so that helps with the day to day stuff. I deal with the day to day stuff which makes it a bigger issue for me. But you did admit that when you see him, it becomes difficult. Trust me that the difficulties will increase the longer you wait. I speak from experience, having fallen into sexual immorality in high school. After a while, kissing gets old, this get old, that gets old, and you find yourself doing things that you really never thought you would. This can happen to you. I made a post in the marriage forum, it was a poll, and I asked how many people actually waited to have sex until their wedding day. Most people did not. A lot of people did some stuff that they really regretted, but didn't actually have intercourse. So alternative forms of sex are the same as intercourse in my book. And many christian couples do these things because the sexual desires get so strong. I don't know if you have ever felt this way, but I have found myself feeling very different when I am sexuall charged. It is as if all good reason is thrown out the window for a little while. Then after I am clam, I look back and think to myself "why was that so difficult to avoid?"

I am not saying that what you are doing is wrong Lizzi. God Bless you if you can be more in control than I can, but be careful not to over estimate yourself. I did that and it didn't work. Again, I am not saying you are doing anything wrong, just trying to give you warning from experience. I think it is great you found a man who accepts you, and a man that you are willing to give yourself to in marriage. I pray that God orchestrates that for you and that his will be done in your relationship.

 

[tractrack-online]

Dave,
Thank you for you insight and concern for others. Sexuality is not something openly discussed by Christians and is a valid part of human desire.

I really think the engagment question comes down to individual self-examination of your self-control and also what engagement means to you as a couple. If it is acting as a buffer from making the relationship more serious then I could see a definite problem with a long one. If it is just letting other people know that you have chosen each other because you've essentially already made that decision.

In the end I agree with your concern MAKE SURE YOU SAVE YOURSELF UNTIL MARRIAGE! Not only will it keep you from guilt and make your marriage that much more special, GOD COMMANDS IT!

 

[Lizzi4Christ]

Dave, simply what I am saying is that you can't just focus on the sexual aspects, which is what you're doing. You have to look at everything, physically, emotionally and mentally.

Having a long distance relationship does not help with the day to day stuff. Not for us anyway. Even just talking on the phone, we'll still have a strong sexual desire at that moment. So, no, it does help with that. Yes, you can't do it right then and there, but you are still very sexually charged. And like I stated before, when we do get together, our drive increases an incredible amount. So I think we have it alittle harder then couples that are together because we have more of a desire to do it, being so far apart.

Again, my point is, it depends from couple to couple. I can't say that enough. And to give into your side alittle, we are considering it being 2 years instead of 3, that being one of the reasons. I know I will wait for my wedding day. I know I will because what has happened for me. And Nathan knowing, he doesn't push me. He wouldn't even hold hands or kiss me first! That's the way we are. You and your girlfriend apparently differ from us. That's ok. There's nothing wrong with that. But a couple should look at themselves and their strengths and weaknesses and determain this. There is no round figure for it.